ISO Information Protesting going on a W. Dares Beach Road Yesterday

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...



It's not a contract per se, it's an agreement between the school board and the teachers union. The commissioners are under no obligation to fund. What happens is that the unions and teachers say, "see see, we have a contract for more of x,y, and z." And it may not be met because of a shortage of funds so of course they blame the commissioners and not the school board who have complete control over the school budget. Want to know a real kicker? So in Calvert, and elsewhere around the county, pension funds ie, teacher, and others, retirement accounts are seriously underfunded, a shortage. In Calvert near $20 millions. Now we are told they, "were promised" this. But what's not being told is that when it was "promised" it was based on a certain annual percentage return in the pension accounts. Well, guess what? The returns have been dismal for many years. So now, instead of having the teachers pay more into their own retirement to shore up the accounts, it is the people that will suffer through higher taxation, which has already occurred here in Calvert. Those millions from Dominion? Some earmarked for these failing pension accounts instead of our failing infrastructure. I say screw them.

Added: From a 2015 Baltimore Sun article. The $45.4 billion system, which provides monthly benefits to about 143,000 retired teachers, state police, judges and other former employees, is expected to gobble up a growing share of the state's budget in the coming years. The Maryland State Retirement and Pension System had only about 69 percent of the assets needed to pay for future and current retirees' pensions in the last fiscal year — well below the at least 80 percent target that many experts consider healthy.

Only now, the State saddled the counties to shore up the teachers accounts all by themselves. On the backs of the uninformed people.

In addition, the teachers always say how selfless they are when it comes to teaching and our children. When was the last time anyone has seen teachers picketing or striking for the students? For tougher bullying punishments? Tougher discipline policies? Tougher anything? Better curriculum? ........... I didn't think so.

Here's the thing, the Retirement System was more than solvent, 105% of funds needed out to about 2070, until Gov. O'Malley started "borrowing" from it during his Administration. What's being paid back now from the General Fund is that money. As a note, if I may, teachers pay 2% more (7% v. 5%) than other covered employees into the pension system which goes to the General Fund and not the Retirement System.

If you have a bitch about it take it up with the former Governor, Sen. Miller, Del. Busch and the rest of the Democrats in the Legislature.

I noticed you didn't quote the entire article you partially recreated. You know, the part about how it had been fully funded.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/
http://www.daggerpress.com/2015/03/...is-not-monopoly-money-being-manipulated-here/
http://governor.maryland.gov/2015/0...on-liability-to-ensure-fiscal-responsibility/
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...4_1_pension-fund-pension-plan-pension-savings

You also know teachers in Maryland are statutorily forbidden to strike.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Here's the thing, the Retirement System was more than solvent, 105% of funds needed out to about 2070, until Gov. O'Malley started "borrowing" from it during his Administration. What's being paid back now from the General Fund is that money. As a note, if I may, teachers pay 2% more (7% v. 5%) than other covered employees into the pension system which goes to the General Fund and not the Retirement System.

If you have a bitch about it take it up with the former Governor, Sen. Miller, Del. Busch and the rest of the Democrats in the Legislature.

I noticed you didn't quote the entire article you partially recreated. You know, the part about how it had been fully funded.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/
http://www.daggerpress.com/2015/03/...is-not-monopoly-money-being-manipulated-here/
http://governor.maryland.gov/2015/0...on-liability-to-ensure-fiscal-responsibility/
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...4_1_pension-fund-pension-plan-pension-savings

You also know teachers in Maryland are statutorily forbidden to strike.

Yes, yes I know. I was trying to highlight the miserable returns of the pension systems. Yes I know teachers pay 7% (they should pay more, not us). Yes I know teachers can't strike in Maryland; that was a generalized statement. Yes I know those effing democrats screw everyone when they have a chance too for their benefit and then the cowardly republicans just follow along. God damn people like you have to nit pick.

These "contributions" to the teachers fund by Calvert County, and others, is not a requirement, but a recommendation. Yet they make it seem we too to have to suffer through higher taxes and do with less so their pension is safe.

Take it up with the legislature? You mean Maryland democrats? Yeah right. I'm sure I'll find a willing ear to listen to my grievances up there.

 

[Bann]

If I may ...

Yes, yes I know. I was trying to highlight the miserable returns of the pension systems. Yes I know teachers pay 7% (they should pay more, not us). Yes I know teachers can't strike in Maryland; that was a generalized statement. Yes I know those effing democrats screw everyone when they have a chance too for their benefit and then the cowardly republicans just follow along. God damn people like you have to nit pick.

These "contributions" to the teachers fund by Calvert County, and others, is not a requirement, but a recommendation. Yet they make it seem we too to have to suffer through higher taxes and do with less so their pension is safe.

Take it up with the legislature? You mean Maryland democrats? Yeah right. I'm sure I'll find a willing ear to listen to my grievances up there.

I saw the rally when Foxhound and I drove through the intersection that evening. I know many teachers and saw quite a few of them at the rally.

I don't agree with their position on this issue- our ideologies are just too different. They feel very entitled to these "contract promises" and will shout you down in a conversation if you enter into one with them. (Happened to me in one of my gym classes). Each one of them are Liberal Democrats, also.

When they behave like bullies and thugs in a discussion - that discussion with me is over.

 

[Bann]

From the CEA's FB page...

https://www.facebook.com/Calvert-Education-Association-CEA-379431018879160/

 

[steppinthrax]

You couldn't pay me enough to teach any grade these days. At the risk of sounding like an old fart, parents and children aren't what they were when I was growing up nor is discipline or high expectations.
Some teachers express that they are glorified baby sitters and that many kids are not there to learn; just to "do their time". I doubt it is rewarding to be a teacher like it was say 30 or 40 years ago...

You can't beat your kids anymore. The school can't beat your kids either. You've got kids that are in public school that come from the worst of homes and will never amount to anything. They are primarily disruptors of the worst type and make it hard for everyone else as well as the teachers. I've went to school with some of these kids. Their parents have no discipline, they could care less, the kids could care less. They take away from those with potential.

The only good thing that comes out of all of this is at the end of the day I see them pumping septic tanks or asking me if "You want fries with that".

 

[steppinthrax]

put some extra money in your real estate tax payment to the county - designate it for the fund.

Are you serious. Between my two house in MD I pay around 6K in real estate taxes each year.

 

[steppinthrax]

Because according to Maryland law concerning teacher contracts it isn't a breach. The revenue authority, the Commissioners, are under no mandate to fund schools above Maintenance of Effort. If a contracted raise exceeds that they don't have to fund. All they have to do is declare a financial emergency, or just not appropriate the funds as long as they maintain MOE, at any time.

Prince George's County does it all the time for, or to, the teachers.

If I worked in that type of environment I would simply find another job.

 

[steppinthrax]

I saw the rally when Foxhound and I drove through the intersection that evening. I know many teachers and saw quite a few of them at the rally.

I don't agree with their position on this issue- our ideologies are just too different. They feel very entitled to these "contract promises" and will shout you down in a conversation if you enter into one with them. (Happened to me in one of my gym classes). Each one of them are Liberal Democrats, also.

When they behave like bullies and thugs in a discussion - that discussion with me is over.

Well in that instance regarding a "contract", how can one feel entitled when a contract is signed!!!! I'm a liberal as well, I don't agree with them primarily because I personally feel if you have a problem with your employment/job/career, then go elsewhere.

But I have a "contract" signed with my tenants who rent from me, they decide not to pay rent for months. If I take them to court for breach of lease, I'm not "entitled"????

I'm also frankly surprised liberal democrats live anywhere in Calvert County (Minus NB and Chesapeake Beach)....

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...



Yes, yes I know. I was trying to highlight the miserable returns of the pension systems. Yes I know teachers pay 7% (they should pay more, not us). Yes I know teachers can't strike in Maryland; that was a generalized statement. Yes I know those effing democrats screw everyone when they have a chance too for their benefit and then the cowardly republicans just follow along. God damn people like you have to nit pick.

These "contributions" to the teachers fund by Calvert County, and others, is not a requirement, but a recommendation. Yet they make it seem we too to have to suffer through higher taxes and do with less so their pension is safe.

Take it up with the legislature? You mean Maryland democrats? Yeah right. I'm sure I'll find a willing ear to listen to my grievances up there.

I nit pick because Goddamn people like you always "forget" to add pertinent details and, by doing so, change the truth of the narrative. Yeah, teachers should "pay more". And that's not a problem but I guess you missed the part that teachers are the only people in the System paying the higher rate and that additional 2% (which was an increase of 40%) doesn't go to the pension system but the General Fund.

You, and I also, forgot to mention that O'Malley dumped the state contribution for school system pensions, which had been covered by the State since the very beginning back in the 1920s, onto the Counties.

 

[Forkian]

Great discussion. This issue is not as cut and dry as it seemed. The original article made it sound like the teachers had a contract for a certain amount of money and were getting stiffed in their pay. Thanks to everyone who attempted to answer some of my questions.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

It appeared you needed a lesson in government finance. Probably should include civics in general.
If you believe you have paid in enough, who then is going to come up with the extra funds?
Granted, my understanding of how Maryland law works is limited, I'm use to local government and school boards having the power to levy the taxes for the revenue they require to run their respective operations. They don't rely on the state legislature for squat.
Their power comes from the people, and trust me, when the people felt they were overburdened by taxes they let their elected officials know in short order. I recall a school board meeting where they were discussing teacher pay raises. The teachers wanted the same raise as the big school systems around them were handing out. The residents of this little town told the school board if they went above 4% they would stone them.

But in Merryland, the school board has to go to the county for it's budget. The county is limited on how much it can tax so in essence they are on a fixed budget - unless the state gives them dispensation to raise their rates. So knowing the rules, both the county and school board should have been extending their revenue forecast and figured out before they signed the contract the money wasn't there. Hell, the teachers union, should have done the same.

Then you compound the stupidity of it all and say they should go to court. HA!
Again, who pays for all the lawyers? The TAXPAYER.

The above isn't exactly true. Calvert County can raise the tax rate without Legislative approval as long as it follows the mandated procedures for public notice and hearings if the increase takes it above the Constant Yield Rate (that is the tax rate that will bring in the same amount of revenue this year as last year). Calvert kept the actual tax rate the same for years, and had the requisite hearings for it because it was above the CYR, because assessments kept going up. That's why you had a tax increase every year even though the rate remained the same.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

I nit pick because Goddamn people like you always "forget" to add pertinent details and, by doing so, change the truth of the narrative. Yeah, teachers should "pay more". And that's not a problem but I guess you missed the part that teachers are the only people in the System paying the higher rate and that additional 2% (which was an increase of 40%) doesn't go to the pension system but the General Fund. You, and I also, forgot to mention that O'Malley dumped the state contribution for school system pensions, which had been covered by the State since the very beginning back in the 1920s, onto the Counties.

Not forgetting, and not trying to change or direct a narrative. I am counting on the majority of people here to understand and already have some knowledge of what is going on. I don't have time to write an complete investigative essay for those that do not follow what is going on in their backyard. And the extra 2% of the teachers contribution going into the general fund is the democrats way of saying FU to the teachers. Then saddling the counties to pony up the shortfall. I say, since the teachers contribute and the county contributes its share per pay period, then that's where it should end. To me, its an "oh well" "sucks to be you" moment that the accounts were mismanaged. The shortfall should be made up by those who stand to benefit, the teachers. Either way, the teachers cannot have it both ways; A fully funded wish list of increases and steps and pay, and more beanies, and, to fully shore up their pension account.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Well in that instance regarding a "contract", how can one feel entitled when a contract is signed!!!! I'm a liberal as well, I don't agree with them primarily because I personally feel if you have a problem with your employment/job/career, then go elsewhere. But I have a "contract" signed with my tenants who rent from me, they decide not to pay rent for months. If I take them to court for breach of lease, I'm not "entitled"???? I'm also frankly surprised liberal democrats live anywhere in Calvert County (Minus NB and Chesapeake Beach)....

Again, it is not a "contract" per se. It is really an agreement between the union, (Calvert Education Association) and the Board of Education. If the CEA and the BOE figure a total budget of say $250,000,000 would make everyone happy ie raises, steps etc. but that amount includes an expected contribution from the county that equals say $175,000,000 and the county only funds to the MOE at $150,000,000, then those steps and raises do not happen at the level planned. The BOE must then go back and re-work the budget and find a way, if at all possible, to give something with what they have. It is not like a rental contract or a cell phone contract or a contract to purchase a house. With a real contract; the requisite elements that must be established to demonstrate the formation of a legally binding contract are (1) offer; (2) acceptance; (3) consideration; (4) mutuality of obligation; (5) competency and capacity; and, in certain circumstances, (6) a written instrument. It is not the case with the union's agreement.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...



Not forgetting, and not trying to change or direct a narrative. I am counting on the majority of people here to understand and already have some knowledge of what is going on. I don't have time to write an complete investigative essay for those that do not follow what is going on in their backyard. And the extra 2% of the teachers contribution going into the general fund is the democrats way of saying FU to the teachers. Then saddling the counties to pony up the shortfall. I say, since the teachers contribute and the county contributes its share per pay period, then that's where it should end. To me, its an "oh well" "sucks to be you" moment that the accounts were mismanaged. The shortfall should be made up by those who stand to benefit, the teachers. Either way, the teachers cannot have it both ways; A fully funded wish list of increases and steps and pay, and more beanies, and, to fully shore up their pension account.

Oh bull####. Not including the items you leave out totally changes the picture. When you do that the people who are being screwed over through no fault of their own become the "bad guys" and have to "pay up". That's what's objectionable.

Where I grew what you do was called lying. I guess you're a bit different.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Oh bull####. Not including the items you leave out totally changes the picture. When you do that the people who are being screwed over through no fault of their own become the "bad guys" and have to "pay up". That's what's objectionable. Where I grew what you do was called lying. I guess you're a bit different.

If I were a reporter you would have a valid point, but I am not. There was no intention to distort, lie, or lie by omission. I wrote what I wrote, in a rush, to focus on the dismal returns of the pension fund as a major reason why it needs shoring up by the county from "out-of-pocket". If you want to fill in the gaps and the other reasons why, then go right ahead. All I know is that the people if Calvert County are getting royally screwed by the teachers and their union regardless of the mechanisms of how we arrived here. I am oh so sorry for not living up to your standard of writing. I defer to your greatness.

 

[BernieP]

Oh bull####. Not including the items you leave out totally changes the picture. When you do that the people who are being screwed over through no fault of their own become the "bad guys" and have to "pay up". That's what's objectionable.

Where I grew what you do was called lying. I guess you're a bit different.

What most of these fools are saying is the taxpayers should pony up more money. Laughable when one suggests suing the government.
Might as well sue yourself.
Where the hell do people think the money comes from, the Tooth Fairy?

 

[intertidal]

If I may ...



If I were a reporter you would have a valid point, but I am not. There was no intention to distort, lie, or lie by omission. I wrote what I wrote, in a rush, to focus on the dismal returns of the pension fund as a major reason why it needs shoring up by the county from "out-of-pocket". If you want to fill in the gaps and the other reasons why, then go right ahead. All I know is that the people if Calvert County are getting royally screwed by the teachers and their union regardless of the mechanisms of how we arrived here. I am oh so sorry for not living up to your standard of writing. I defer to your greatness.

The returns are indeed dismal and why they are so dismal is the real issue. The hundreds of pension fund managers hired by the state pension fund are paid very high fees. No sane person would pay such fees as an independent investor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...e6e7a14000c_story.html?utm_term=.54bfbf6f46ea

The solution is simple - switch to low-cost index funds. Index funds continue to beat the returns of the Maryland pension fund every year. Connect the dots to understand why Maryland continues to pay such high fees. The state integrity investigation (www.publicintegrity.org/2015) gives Maryland an F grade for pension fund integrity. Other researchers have found that only South Carolina and Missouri pay such high fees.

The counties and MACO have had many opportunities to express their displeasure with this corrupt system. But the history of pension reform in this state has been to increase payments to politically connected "fund managers" while ripping off the employees by increasing the employee contribution and cutting benefits. Imagine if your social security contribution increased 40% and decreased benefits at the same time.

Teachers and state workers are not to blame for this situation - but they are convenient scapegoats while the real problem continues. People are getting wealthy from the pension fund - but it is certainly not the retirees who are buying the very worst value, on a cost-benefit ratio, pension in the US.

 

[intertidal]

What most of these fools are saying is the taxpayers should pony up more money. Laughable when one suggests suing the government.
Might as well sue yourself.
Where the hell do people think the money comes from, the Tooth Fairy?

There is no need for anyone to pony up more money - not the employees nor the taxpayers. Stop the insanity of paying hundreds of millions in very high fees for consistently bad performance and go with low-cost index funds. OR tie the fee structure to performance (wishful thinking, yes...).

 

[steppinthrax]

If I may ...



Again, it is not a "contract" per se. It is really an agreement between the union, (Calvert Education Association) and the Board of Education. If the CEA and the BOE figure a total budget of say $250,000,000 would make everyone happy ie raises, steps etc. but that amount includes an expected contribution from the county that equals say $175,000,000 and the county only funds to the MOE at $150,000,000, then those steps and raises do not happen at the level planned. The BOE must then go back and re-work the budget and find a way, if at all possible, to give something with what they have. It is not like a rental contract or a cell phone contract or a contract to purchase a house. With a real contract; the requisite elements that must be established to demonstrate the formation of a legally binding contract are (1) offer; (2) acceptance; (3) consideration; (4) mutuality of obligation; (5) competency and capacity; and, in certain circumstances, (6) a written instrument. It is not the case with the union's agreement.

If it's an "agreement" as you said, then I don't really feel too much pitty.

 

[intertidal]

Oh bull####. Not including the items you leave out totally changes the picture. When you do that the people who are being screwed over through no fault of their own become the "bad guys" and have to "pay up". That's what's objectionable.

Where I grew what you do was called lying. I guess you're a bit different.

You have to admit that gov't has done an excellent job at screwing over the workers while at the same time demonizing them for receiving the very worst pension value in the US. Such shrewd and cynical politics is often bad public policy. Ask an actuary what he would be willing to pay for the MD pension post-7/2011 if it was an annuity product available for sale and he would tell you that this one is worth no more than 4 to 5% (with some variance for interest rates) of pay.