Religious Fanatics

[BL]

Christy,

I am far from being a liberal so don't worry about that.  Go ahead and start that new thread, I could go on for ever on that subject.  Some people just need to chill out with the preaching all of the time.  BTW if this kind of behavior has been going on for a long time it just goes to show you how people put priests and cardinals on a pedastal and will let them get away with anything because of their position.    

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm not willing to say that all Catholics are bad based on a few priests any more than I would say all Democrats are bad based on Bill Clinton and Al Gore.  That's a little broad, even for me.

Jimmy, I'm not sure what you want the Christians to say about this topic.  Do you want them to fall down and mea culpa?  They didn't do anything wrong so why should they?  Hessian, as our resident fundamentalist, is probably disgusted by the child-molestations too but I doubt he feels like it has anything to do with him - after all, <i>he</i> didn't molest anyone.  Nor do a few priests set the standard for the whole Catholic Church.

 

[Ken King]

From “The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume III”, Celibacy of the Clergy

“Celibacy is the renunciation of marriage implicitly or explicitly made, for the more perfect observance of chastity, by all those who receive the Sacrament of Orders in any of the higher grades.”

Chastity, if I am not mistaken means abstinence from sexual activity.  So please Sxy, tell me again that Priests are allowed to have sexual relations.  

 

[jimmy]

Jesus, guys, I don't WANT the Christians to say ANYTHING! I'm sure that they're all outraged by this. I'm sure the fundamentalists are outraged by this. What I'm saying is that this is a shoe-on-the-other-foot for a lot of them who use the actions of the few to condem the whole group (see our discussion on homosexuality). My point, therefore, was to say "hey look if we used your logic on homosexuals being immoral, then we could say that ALL christians, catholics, priests, clergyment etc. are immoral." That's all I was trying to point out. Not this giant Christian witch hunt you all seem to think I'm on.  I'm just turning their arguement back on them and they KNOW that they do this and THAT, I'm supposing, is why they're not chiming in.

 

[SxyPrincess]

Ken,

I'm glad I could get your panties in a twist!  Like I said, you want the website, I'll be more than happy to give it to you.

 

[SxyPrincess]

Ken,

And another thing...I've the verification to back up my 6-figure income, shall I show that to you as well?

 

[Ken King]

Sxy,

You couldn't bunch up my drawers if your life depended on it and you couldn't provide anything on this topic anyway that is any better then what I have been able to find.  So if you want to blow smoke up someone else's butt do it, as for me I see you as a joke who doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

 

[SxyPrincess]

I believe I have caused your drawers to bunch otherwise, you wouldn't have such a negative response.

In conclusion, I'm going to nonchalantly slip away from this conversation as I can see I'm talking with a child!

 

[Ken King]

Please do go away, you won't be missed.  

 

[Hessian]

Ah yes, the fascinating world of bitter cynics of Christianity.
and once again the curious fallacies appear.
Why silence on the priests?
Answer: I'm not Catholic, I don't watch network news, and I have a child that I don't want to have to consider circumstances when men who can be trusted are corrupt. I have known that the RC church has acquired its collection of queers and I have known that they shuffle them around to cover their misdeeds. but I have no connection or interest in perverted molesters or homosexuals.
"It would be better if a millstone were tied around their neck and they were thrown into the sea than to harm the little ones." (paraphrased)
Christ's stand 2000 years ago...I can't argue with that.

So...don't read into my "silence" as embarrassment, or hypocrisy or whatever, its obvious you still don't know what makes a Fundamentalist tick.(Besides. I was away for 4 days!)

What the media should do is spend some time with priests or pastors working day after day in Ghettos, Hospitals, Nursing homes, prisons,in the military, or serving tiny rural congregations and then...thank them for their years of care and dedication  but I forget, the media is bent to demonized, criticize, mock, and discredit anything that is moral and traditional....much like Jimmy and friends.

 

[jimmy]

Hessian,
I respect your decision not to enter the fray on the Catholic abuse charges and you reasons make sense; it's not your issue, not being Catholic and not really wanting to pay much attention to it. Agreed.

However, I don't get your last line about the media demonizing what is moral and traditional? To what are you referring there? THIS story we're talking about? Because certainly, molesting preists are worthy of demonizing if ever anyone is. The Clergy who have known about such offenses and done NOTHING thus far until it is shoved in their faces? I see no harm in demonizing them as well. I have NOT seen religion itself or your valued fundamentalism come under attack yet by the media. I've seen the notion of celebacy questioned but, to me, this has NOTHING to do with not being able to have sex. Repression doesn't always lead to perversion. So what are you referring to?

 

[Hessian]

Jimmy,
Its the Generalization branding that goes on...
"Catholic Priests on defensive everywhere...'
"Presbyterians split over ordaining homosexuals..."
"Maryland Episcopals bickering over Bishop's right to remove priest..."
"Fanatical Cult of snake handlers..."
"Divorce rate among evangelicals proves embarrasing..."

Well, that is just a sample of the perspective of the press.
90% of all reporters claim to be Liberal or Democrat, thus there is a natural bent to mock evangelicals as backward, uneducated, repressive, and in desperate need of a dose of reality. (And not just evangelicals either)
We had reporters from three networks at our school in the past month doing a human interest story. not once did they delve into the faith behind the decisions made...just another "heart-warming story." Its like watching the Sound of Music with all the music cut out. This is what we have seen in the press and it will only get worse.
Regarding those molesting priests: Religious defrocking followed by criminal convictions and sentencing; no delay or excuses.

 

[jimmy]

Agreed on that last point, Hessain...wow...never thought I'd type that! Seriously, I do see a liberal bend in the media. One of my favorite...uh...jeez I guess you can only describe him as a "thinker" or something, Noam Chompsky, is all about questioning the source of your information. Of course, this goes on both sides as you shouldn't necessarily take what the press says as truth, neither should you take what the government or the church says either in my mind. You have to take every instance on its own and decide which source is most logical to trust.
As for the headlines you bring up, I think this IS a huge black eye on the church and the press is covering what happened but I don't think they're using this as an opportunity to bash religion; that is just happening on its own.  As for the human interest story situation, if there are religious motivations behind what your school is doing or whatever, then of course that needs to be explored.  
My last comment is just to the 90% liberal media stat.  I find that very interesting because, like them or not, the media is heavily involved in world events and are generally very informed people. I find it interesting that those people tend to be liberal. It suggests to me that with all the things they see and all the things they are a part of, they still manage to come away with that point of view, as opposed to being swayed in an opposite direction.  Seems like a vote in FAVOR of liberalism that so many from the press profess to be so.

 

[SxyPrincess]

FYI--here is a link to USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops).  There's a few articles/comments regarding child abuse and R. C. Priests.  

http://www.nccbuscc.org/index.htm

 

[Frank]

" It suggests to me that with all the things they see and all the things they are a part of, they still manage to come away with that point of view, as opposed to being swayed in an opposite direction.  Seems like a vote in FAVOR of liberalism that so many from the press profess to be so. "

I'm not sure I buy into this - that somehow, exposure to world events - which doesn't actually describe the larger world of journalists - is THE critical element changing their opinions on such matters. You could just as well look at exit poll demographic data which shows a general trend to vote Democrat if you are poor and uneducated, but that the trend moves Republican as you age, mature, increase education, have families and so on. This IS factual, but to suggest that the reason people vote one way or another, or share a perspective because of socioeconomic status is only a part of the picture - there's a lot more going on there.

Secondly - there's wholesale denial among liberals that the media expresses a liberal bias. It's interesting that you embrace the idea. But the premise is used as a joke among liberals.

Thirdly - the bias is changing. Other media outlets are enjoying a surge in popularity as the audience shifts. It's altogether possible in a few years, the press will exhibit a conservative bias, as it did in the distant past. What would that say to your argument that somehow, journalists share a view and just happen to be closest to the events? Did the "rightness" of the philosophy change? Or did circumstances? Honestly, if I were a conservative journalist working for Ted Turner, I'd either quit or be canned - in the past he's shown blatant contempt for conservatives and for religious people in particular. I was aghast that he assailed a bunch of Catholics as "Jesus freaks" because they had ashes on their forehead on Ash Wednesday.

Personally - I think journalism is dominated by liberals because the industry is conducive to it. I think it's because colleges that teach it employ liberal professors who won't tolerate conservative views in their classroom, and I've heard enough cases to convince me of this. I think it's because you have a better shot at a job, if your beliefs fall along those lines.

It's always more complicated than you think..

There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy....

 

[jimmy]

Frank,
You make a strong case. And as I tried to phrase it (I guess I failed) this was just a hunch I was getting at the time.  Could be false. I'm not sure.  Still, I tend to see the media as very skeptical of big business, federal government etc, and concerned over matters of public welfare. Granted, the latter has a LOT to do with ratings. But conservatives, in my mind, tend to be more PRO-big business, so long as there's money to be made, and pro-govenment in that they they are more ethnocentric and isolationist in matters of foreign policy.  I'm not a huge fan of the press by any means. But what attracts someone to that job is a desire to be "involved" without being forced into the corruption of politics etc. Once there do they continue to exhibit liberal leanings. Sure.  Will that change one day? I don't know. It's hard to tell. (also as for your stat about uneducated people voting republican, its also a fact that people from cities and more urban advanced areas vote demo, while rural, more traditional people vote republican. You could infer all kinds of things from this too...I'm just trying to make a point).
With the surge in popularity from Bill O'Reily and the backlash from the Clinton era, I'm sure that we'll see more conservatives in the media; and that's probably a good thing. Any one-sided view is potentially dangerous.  But I still have a feeling that the nature of journalism tends to lean more towards a liberal viewpoint than a conservative....interesting debate though...

 

[EL1]

Hessian,
You act like the press should ignore what churches are doing.  You list off a bunch of supposed headlines and act like the press should leave them alone.  I hate to tell ya, but what churches do IS news.  Good, bad- it doesn’t matter.  

 

[Christy]

I think you all are missing the point Hessian is trying to make.  He's not saying the press should ignore what the Catholic pedophiles are doing.  The point is, the press only reports the bad things without ever reporting the many many good things the Catholic church has done.  (I can't believe I'm defending the Catholic Church!  I'm the Anti-Catholic!)  But seriously, there are Catholic Priests, nuns, groups.... who truly have done some really good things.  (Mother Theresa dudes!)  

This is typical of the press though, on any issue.    

 

[jimmy]

How has the Catholic Church "never" been represented well by the press? During this scandal, how many times have I heard statements affirming the value of the church; "Catholic Charities is the second largest donor of money next to the Government" "Hopefully the Catholic Church can recover from this" etc. They are not DEMONIZING the church here, people. You're getting caught up in your tendency to believe the liberal media conspiriacy has its hands all over every story. How SHOULD this story have been presented? How SHOULD the press handle the fact that priests--supposedly some of the most trustworthy people in your life--have been f-ing molesting little boys for years??? How SHOULD they handle the news that Cardinal Law has known about the allogations for years and done NOTHING!!!???  How SHOULD they report the news that the Pope calls this a black eye for the church and condemns the actions on all accounts qand actually calls these guys out to the VATICAN to rip em new a-holes?????  THAT'S what's being reported becuase THAT'S what's happening!!! What would you have them say!? God damn this is so ridiculous. I don't mean to get so fired up but you all and your liberal media conspiriacy sh!t, it's like you're not even paying attention; you're just hearing ANYTHING come out of these reporters' mouths and saying "oh, nope! nope! that's just liberal media! Liberal media! What do you expect??? Liberal Media! Whine whine bitch bitch!" .......ahem.......whew....ok...I've calmed down. But take a minute, please, and THINK about what you're saying first...How should this story have been broken by a CONSERVATIVE press, let's say?

 

[Christy]

Jimmy, calm yourself before you give yourself a hernia!  Yet again you are missing the point!  I'm not taking up for the Catholic church.  I'm pointing out.  The media thrives on scandal.  That is their bread and butter.  You never hear "so and so church (Catholic or not) was responsible for feeding umpteen million hungry children this year".  You would however see it blazing in the headlines if "Gays and Lesbians of America hosted a celebrity ball which raised umpteen million dollars for AIDs research."  And before you get your undies in a bunch, I applaud both.  The media however doesn't find the good work done by religious folks newsworthy.   It would be nice to have some balance.