Religious tolerance has its limits....

PsyOps

Pixelated
good point

Bad point.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. – Matthew 16:24​

The cross is the symbol of that taking up of the cross, carrying the burden and suffering Jesus went through. It’s also a reminder of that suffering; that we wouldn’t forget what it is we struggle for as Christians, and what the reward will be.

And for clarity... the Islamic faith has its own symbols they use to identify their faith. JPC is consistently ignorant and disingenuous about so many things when trying to compare Islam to Christianity.
 

VoteJP

J.P. Cusick
Hi.

The context of John 19 specifies that Jesus died on the cross:

I referenced that John 19 in my post #15, as I pointed out the Roman soldiers had no way of being certain of Jesus being dead or not, and then the spear into the side of Jesus let out the pressure from His lungs and heart, which means the Roman soldiers ended up saving the life of Jesus when they were declaring His as dead.

It really is a much better truth of a realistic miracle rather then the mystical miracle claims of orthodoxy.

That is what is meant by RESUSCITATION which is a type of resurrection..

And back to the point of this thread, there are lots of enlightening truths which we Christians can learn from our sister religion of Islam.
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
And back to the point of this thread, there are lots of enlightening truths which we Christians can learn from our sister religion of Islam.

They're more like very distant cousins, and anything worthy of learning from them had already been taught. JMO.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
And back to the point of this thread, there are lots of enlightening truths which we Christians can learn from our sister religion of Islam.

For example:

"It is he who has sent his messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is Allah for a witness. (Qur'an: 048.028)

The above verse has become the foundation whereby Muslims believe it is their obligation to carry out Muhammad's proclamation to the world that Islam is "the only religion for mankind." Therefore, all other religions are to be subdued and brought under submission to Islam - even through terror:
"...I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." (Qur'an 008.012)

According to the Qur'an, Muslims are not allowed to befriend Jews nor Christians. With such separatist ideology, peace on earth is not possible:

"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors of each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them..." (Qur'an: 005.051

Islamic terror groups sincerely believe that they are on the right path, fighting for the cause of their god, Allah. Their mindset is that of complete obedience even to the point that they dare not retreat in battle. Most would rather die fighting for their cause than to give up; to retreat would bring the wrath of Allah upon them, according to the Qur'an:
"O ye who believe! When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own) he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge..." (Qur'an: 008.016)

Muslim terrorists are indoctrinated with the belief that war is a good thing and is meant for them to be engaged in - even though they may not like it:
"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing that is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." (Qur'an: 002.216)

According to the Qur'an, Allah "loves" those who fight in his cause:
"Truly Allah loves those who fight in his cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure." (Qur'an: 061.004)

It appears that Allah is the one that has given the order for Muslim armies to behead their enemies and that Muslims who die in battle will be rewarded:
"Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them)...but if it had been Allah's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, he will never let their deeds be lost." (Qur'an: 047.004)

The present-day efforts by Muslims wanting to expel Jews, Christians and Western influence out of the Mideast is nothing new; it was mandated from the very inception of Islam. In the Ahadith, (sayings of Muhammad) there are calls for Muslims to engage in ethnic cleansing and persecution of other religions that existed at that time in the Arabian lands:
"It has been narrated by 'Umar al-Khattib that he heard the messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: 'I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim."'
(Sahih-Muslim: Book 019, No. 4366)

"...Two deens (religions) shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula..."
(Malik's Muwatta: Book 54, No. 45.5.18)

Muhammad claimed that he had been ordered to fight against all people until they believe in Allah, accept him as their prophet and submit to the religious ways of Islam:
"The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: 'I am commanded to fight with men ('til) they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is his servant and his apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer toward Mecca), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us..."' (Sunan Abu-Dawud: Book 14, No. 2635)

Non-Muslims must begin to comprehend the deep extent of faith that fuels the fundamental Islamic terror groups throughout the world. They view themselves as warriors for the cause of "God" and are as sincere in their faith as Jews, Christians and people of other faiths are in theirs.

Fundamental Islamists see themselves as "Freedom Fighters" and are given instructions not to relent until belief in Allah prevails. This is the mindset that is being preached in various mosques throughout the world:
"And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease (submit) verily Allah doth see all that they do." (Qur'an: 008.039)

Source: Research
 

StoneThrower

New Member
The cross is the thing that killed Jesus QUOTE]

No actually it was your sin that put him on that cross! He took the wrath you deserved and died to take your place so that you could be forgiven by a just and Holy God, and you reject that.
 

StoneThrower

New Member
According to the given info in the Biblical research of the Gospels then Jesus did NOT die on the cross

Dude, if you believe the swoon theory, you really are a nuts! Its not even a remote possibility. This is old ground thats been hashed out already.
 

VoteJP

J.P. Cusick
Hi.

Dude, if you believe the swoon theory, you really are a nuts! Its not even a remote possibility. This is old ground thats been hashed out already.

What I have said here is far beyond and far better then the old "swoon theory".

What I have said is from the Bible text itself and that makes the big difference in that what I have pointed out shows Jesus to have been a real person and that the events of His death and resurrection are true and realistic instead of the old magical interpretation which made Jesus to look like a fairy tale.

The old "swoon theory" was a claim that the story of Jesus was a lie and they inserted claims into the Bible which were not there.

What I have told here is exactly perfect and soundly based on the Bible texts.

The spear into His side and the report water mixed with blood is the proof that the life of Jesus was restored or saved by a resuscitation.

Reference John 19:33-35
 

Starman3000m

New Member
But believing a dead person was actually brought back to life by a supreme being makes you sane??

Actually, Yes!

It's those who deny God's existence and abilities that err in their thinking:

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.(2 Timothy 1:7)

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
all who follow his precepts have good understanding.
To him belongs eternal praise. (Psalm 111:10, NIV)

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” (Psalm 53:1)
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Actually, Yes!

It's those who deny God's existence and abilities that err in their thinking:

Sorry, but no.

I don't believe bushes speak, I don't believe in anytime in the last 6000 years ANYbody lived to be 600 years old.. and I also don't believe in Virgin Births, or miraculous resurrections..

And if you do I find you no more sane than a person walking out of the woods today that says they talked to the trees, bushes and bunnies.. and had a one on one converstaion with God that told him to kill all those people in the abortion clinic.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Sorry, but no.

... And if you do I find you no more sane than a person walking out of the woods today that says they talked to the trees, bushes and bunnies.. and had a one on one converstaion with God that told him to kill all those people in the abortion clinic.

Humans are dual in nature: Spiritual and Mortal (carnal)
God is a Spirit and is comprehended in the spiritual sense which is contrary and illogical to the mortal human intellect.

As for the individual(s) that take it upon themselves to blow up and kill people who work at abortion clinics are indeed the ones that are crazed and definitely misguided in their actions if they claim "God made them do it". Jesus never commanded His followers to murder anyone.

However, do you, itsbob, believe it's okay for the abortion doctors to literally kill millions of unborn human babies in the name of educated modern science in cooperation with "planned parenthood" ?
You don't see the irony here?
 

VoteJP

J.P. Cusick
Hi.

However, do you, itsbob, believe it's okay for the abortion doctors to literally kill millions of unborn human babies in the name of educated modern science in cooperation with "planned parenthood" ?
You don't see the irony here?

You have twisted your question around to try to create an irony where there is none.

Asking if it is okay to get an abortion is so far away from the point that it certainly is not ironic.

The point (that "itsbob" gave) was and remains that it is not sane to believe that "a dead person was actually brought back to life by a supreme being".

And as I pointed out that the Bible shows that Jesus was resuscitated as a medically realistic type of resurrection, link this thread posting #15 of page 2.

:coffee:
 

Starman3000m

New Member
You have twisted your question around to try to create an irony where there is none.

Asking if it is okay to get an abortion is so far away from the point that it certainly is not ironic.

The point (that "itsbob" gave) was and remains that it is not sane to believe that "a dead person was actually brought back to life by a supreme being".

And as I pointed out that the Bible shows that Jesus was resuscitated as a medically realistic type of resurrection, link this thread posting #15 of page 2.

:coffee:

His point was also stating that it is not "sane" to believe in God. Do you believe in God? :whistle:
 

VoteJP

J.P. Cusick
Hi.

His point was also stating that it is not "sane" to believe in God. Do you believe in God? :whistle:

I do not see you as the forum inquisitor here, which makes your inquisition out of line.

And I do believe this thread is about religious tolerance between Christians and Muslims.

And how us Christians can learn a lot from our sister religion of Islam.

:howdy:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I do not see you as the forum inquisitor here, which makes your inquisition out of line.

And I do believe this thread is about religious tolerance between Christians and Muslims.

And how us Christians can learn a lot from our sister religion of Islam.

:howdy:

So you would support demanding a place for Jews to worship in an Islamic school? Or for Christians to worship in an Islamic school?

I wouldn't, personally, but clearly you would, or you wouldn't be arguing here.
 

VoteJP

J.P. Cusick
Hi.

So you would support demanding a place for Jews to worship in an Islamic school? Or for Christians to worship in an Islamic school?

I wouldn't, personally, but clearly you would, or you wouldn't be arguing here.

I certainly would not "demand" such a thing.

If the Christians and Jews would repent of their hostilities to the religion of Islam then the Muslims would be happy to welcome the Christians and Jews into their homes and into any place.

We even have a proof of this in that the Muslims had control and authority over the Holy Lands including over Jerusalem (1517-1917) and under the Muslim rule there were Christians and Jews living peacefully and the entire Holy Lands were open to tourist and trade and more.

It was not until after four hundreds (400) years of peace in the Holy Lands that as the first Christian Caucasian inspired World War ended in 1918 that the Holy Lands were occupied by the violent armies of Christians and Jews creating no more peace or harmony.

The religion of Islam is tolerant and peaceful, so the Christians and Jews need to repent of their never ending violent hostilities.

As such in more direct answer to your question - the Christians and Jews have already DEMANDED a place to worship inside of Muslim lands, and they threw the Muslims out of their homes in the process.

:war:
 

Starman3000m

New Member
...If the Christians and Jews would repent of their hostilities to the religion of Islam then the Muslims would be happy to welcome the Christians and Jews into their homes and into any place...

Sorry, but apparently you haven't been keeping up with the latest news about which "religion" is the one being hostile to all other religions and all other forms of government that do not submit to its theology and laws.

It was that initial hostility that the Jewish and Christian communities have had to deal with and defend themselves against ever since Muhammad declared that Islam was to replace all other religions. Thus, hostilities and terror are an apparent way of how Muslims are to deal with non-Muslims, aka "the Infidels".

Additionally, the ongoing power struggle between the Islamic sects of Sunni and Shi'a Muslims has been going on ever since the death of their prophet, Muhammad, circa 632.

BTW: Islam does not mean "peace" - it means Submission!
 

newbsomd

New Member
I certainly would not "demand" such a thing.

If the Christians and Jews would repent of their hostilities to the religion of Islam then the Muslims would be happy to welcome the Christians and Jews into their homes and into any place.

We even have a proof of this in that the Muslims had control and authority over the Holy Lands including over Jerusalem (1517-1917) and under the Muslim rule there were Christians and Jews living peacefully and the entire Holy Lands were open to tourist and trade and more.

It was not until after four hundreds (400) years of peace in the Holy Lands that as the first Christian Caucasian inspired World War ended in 1918 that the Holy Lands were occupied by the violent armies of Christians and Jews creating no more peace or harmony.

The religion of Islam is tolerant and peaceful, so the Christians and Jews need to repent of their never ending violent hostilities.

As such in more direct answer to your question - the Christians and Jews have already DEMANDED a place to worship inside of Muslim lands, and they threw the Muslims out of their homes in the process.

:war:
wow, i'm surprised. someone on this forum is seemingly aware of religious history.

:cheers:
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
wow, i'm surprised. someone on this forum is seemingly aware of religious history.

:cheers:

Oh p-lease. We're aware of it, let's go back in Islam's history just a bit...

630 Tabuk Crusades
632-634 Conquer of Arabia.
633 Conquer of Iraq.
634 Conquer Yarmuk (Syria)
635 Conquer Damascus (Syria).
638 Conquer of Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.
638-650 Conquer Iran.
639-642 Conquer Egypt.
641 Control of Palestine.
643-707 Conquer North Africa.
644-650 Conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran and Afghanistan.
673-678 Besiege of Constantinople.
691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, which is on top of the former Jewish temple.
710-713 Conquer the lower Indus Valley.
711-713 Conquer Spain.
800 Conquer Tunisia.
807 Caliph Harun al-Rashid orders the destruction of non-Muslim prayer houses and of the Church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem.
809 Conquer Sardinia, Italy.
813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country.
831 Conquer Palermo, Italy.
850 Caliph al-Matawakkil orders the destruction of non-Muslim houses of prayer.
837-901 Conquer Sicily.
937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked .
966 Anti-Christian riots in Jerusalem
1003 The Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed by al-Hakim.
1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al-Hakim.
1012 Al-Hakim’s oppression of Jews and Christians begins.
1055 Confiscation of the Church of the Resurrection after being rebuilt.
1071 Conquer Anatolia.
1076 Conquer Ghana.
1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade (and no wonder); they capture Jerusalem in 1099.

Do you really think that all of those nations provoked such wars and the Muslims were just defending themselves because they're such a peaceful people? Come now, let us reason together.

Now, I could give them a break and say they've learned and changed over the years; however, I can't say that and be truthful. I will reiterate, I have nothing to learn from Islam. Generally speaking, it is not a tolerant and peaceful religion even in the current age.
 

VoteJP

J.P. Cusick
Hi.

BTW: Islam does not mean "peace" - it means Submission!

That is not accurate, and the "Starman" knows it is not accurate.

The name "Islam" means "submission to God" or "Submission to Allah" but not just submission.

The name of Islam does NOT mean submission to other people, does not mean submission to the hierarchy, does not mean submission to laws or to governments, as Islam means submit to God.

That is another grand thing that Christians could learn from the religion of Islam - in that our first priority is to God and not to the demands of people.

Of course Muslims do believe that submitting to rightful laws and rightful government and submit to rightful leaders is a type of service to God (Allah), but do NOT submit to those that are wrongful.

Also Islam is the "religion of peace" and no one except our "Starman" presents that as if anyone was calling that as the meaning of the word "Islam" which it is not.

wow, i'm surprised. someone on this forum is seemingly aware of religious history.
:cheers:

Wow, I am surprised by you too.

:howdy:
 
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