Barack Obama or Jimmy Carter?
There's a case to be made for both of them.
There's a case to be made for both of them.
So who was a worse president:
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
Obama. A junior high school quarter back (unior senator) that is elevated to the starting QB job in the Super Bowl.
Single handedly doubled the national debt from $10T to $20T.,
If you like your doctor,
Solyndra,
cash for klunkers,
Syria,
Libya,
Fast & furious gun running,
red lines in the sand,
The food stamp president,
US loss of prestige overseas,
Benghazi,
weaponized the IRS against conservative groups,
autopen legislation,
executive orders circumventing congress,
NSA spying on Americans,
Steele dossier,
disrespect of Israel,
Pullout of Iraq,
Sending $$$ Billions $$$ to Iran,
who hate the US,
John Kerry,
Bergdahl for 5 terrorist exchange,
Overseas apology tour,
You didn't make that comment,
Open borders,
Racial division at an all time high,
Disrespect for law enforcement,
Black panthers intimidating voters,
Loretta Lynch & the tarmac meeting,
Eric Holder,
Disrespect for the military,
Clock boy visit to the white house,
"The Cambridge police acted stupidly",
Mocking Donald Trump at correspondesce dinner,(Thanks Barry)
Soaring college costs,
Lowest worker participation rate,
Weaponize the DOJ,
Bowing before national leaders,
Etc, etc, etc.......................................
Single handedly doubled the national debt from $10T to $20T.,
If you like your doctor,
Solyndra,
cash for klunkers,
Syria,
Libya,
Fast & furious gun running,
red lines in the sand,
The food stamp president,
US loss of prestige overseas,
Benghazi,
weaponized the IRS against conservative groups,
autopen legislation,
executive orders circumventing congress,
NSA spying on Americans,
Steele dossier,
disrespect of Israel,
Pullout of Iraq,
Sending $$$ Billions $$$ to Iran,
who hate the US,
John Kerry,
Bergdahl for 5 terrorist exchange,
Overseas apology tour,
You didn't make that comment,
Open borders,
Racial division at an all time high,
Disrespect for law enforcement,
Black panthers intimidating voters,
Loretta Lynch & the tarmac meeting,
Eric Holder,
Disrespect for the military,
Clock boy visit to the white house,
"The Cambridge police acted stupidly",
Mocking Donald Trump at correspondesce dinner,(Thanks Barry)
Soaring college costs,
Lowest worker participation rate,
Weaponize the DOJ,
Bowing before national leaders,
Etc, etc, etc.......................................
Obama by a landslide. Carter was mostly harmless. He didn't really mess with too much. His approach to things was a "let's sit down and talk about it". Obama on the other hand actively went about to destroy anything that didn't meet his socialist views. He purposely widened the divide in race relations. He openly despised our military. He undermined the global position of the US. I could go on but the list of his moronic actions and lies is exhaustive.
awpitt
Main Streeter
While he was politically naive, Carter was probably the most honest President we've had in most of our life times. Certainly more honest then our current incumbent. He represents what most people claim to want in office. Military experience. Business owner. Some political experience but not a lifer politician. He inherited a lot of problems that were already brewing by the time he entered office and wasn't able to deal with them when they came to a head.
As far as worse presidents, neither Carter nor Obama are at the bottom. One would have to look at ones like Harding or Buchanan.
This_person
Well-Known Member
FDR, in my humble opinion. Turned the Constitution on its head.
Carter probably took a second to Truman, but was pretty honest in comparison to other presidents. Of course, that's like being the best wine from Idaho - not really a compliment, but rather a lessor insult.
awpitt
Main Streeter
Interesting thing is that Trump has already added 29% to the debt he inherited from Obama so at that rate, he'll exceed Obama's addition to the debt.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Not sure if that is accurately described as "interesting" or "scary beyond all belief, and extremely disappointing".
To be fair, neither Obama nor Trump did it "single-handedly", as they may write budgets but they do not pass them in Congress. They sign the final product.
Obama signed such a complete failure in 2009 to pay for the remainder of 2009 because Bush threatened veto in 2008 of the same spending bill that even Obama said he'd never sign a budget like that again. And, he was right - every one after was even worse. Trump's had the opportunity to sign an abomination, and he did. Let's see if he changes in 2019 for 2020, because in 2018 he signed horrible spending for 2019 (except for a few agencies, currently "shut down").
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
I hate to say this - but in defense of Obama and his budgets ---
By and large, the increasing debt was a direct consequence of lowered tax revenues, due to the recession.
It was five years before the revenue EQUALED where it was before he took office.
The budgets themselves did increase - but not outrageously so EXCEPT for the first one.
The outcome of that was - increased deficits.
Now - what he IS on the hook for PROLONGING the recession for some of his stupid decisions.
The recession and the aftermath should not have lasted *years* - but it did. Typically a
recession snaps back very quickly - the traditional definition of a recession is two quarters of
negative growth, and ends after four of positive growth - and generally, afterward, the nation
recovers rather nicely - and you can usually see this by how fast federal revenues recover.
Under Obama, federal revenues went back to 2008 levels five years later - instead of typically
one or two.
By and large, the increasing debt was a direct consequence of lowered tax revenues, due to the recession.
It was five years before the revenue EQUALED where it was before he took office.
The budgets themselves did increase - but not outrageously so EXCEPT for the first one.
The outcome of that was - increased deficits.
Now - what he IS on the hook for PROLONGING the recession for some of his stupid decisions.
The recession and the aftermath should not have lasted *years* - but it did. Typically a
recession snaps back very quickly - the traditional definition of a recession is two quarters of
negative growth, and ends after four of positive growth - and generally, afterward, the nation
recovers rather nicely - and you can usually see this by how fast federal revenues recover.
Under Obama, federal revenues went back to 2008 levels five years later - instead of typically
one or two.
This_person
Well-Known Member
You're currently furloughed, yes? Meaning, you are not getting a paycheck, or put in other terms, you have lowering revenue. Do you spend as you did before the lowering revenue, or are you prudently controlling your discretionary spending?
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
Yes, and yes. And I get that. Try and find a year where the government spent LESS than they did the previous year.
I found TWO in the past thirty years, and the differences were small. They always spend more, even if just a little.
It would be great if we were fiscally responsible in lean years, but generally the biggest parts of the budget
really leave very little room for trimming.
Definitely Obama. I had little to no respect for Carter as President but always recognized that he was - and is - a generally decent and honest man.
Obama is nothing more than an artificial creation.....a totally unaccomplished progressive tool.
As far as "all time worst", though, I still have to give that to Woodrow Wilson...at least as far as post 1900 presidents go.
Obama is nothing more than an artificial creation.....a totally unaccomplished progressive tool.
As far as "all time worst", though, I still have to give that to Woodrow Wilson...at least as far as post 1900 presidents go.
I'm torn but I have to pick Carter as the worst. Obama was a playa, a tool of the moneymen, and he and the wife made a fortune in the process. He was Johnny Bravo - he fit the suit and he'd go out there and perform. I can admire that on some level.
Carter, on the other hand, was a fool. I can't think of one single impressive thing he did while in office. When you're so bad that your party holds its nose and tries to get Ted Kennedy to run against you, that says all you need to know.
I think Carter is a terrific ex-president, when he's not blathering about how much he hates The Donald, and Obama is a horrible ex-president who doesn't seem to realize that his time is up. I also think Jimmy Carter genuinely loves this country, whereas Obama has been clear that he hates America and Americans, especially the white ones.
But Carter was a terrible ignorant and tone deaf president - an enormous national mistake. His legacy is bringing the Shah of Iran to the US, provoking the Muslim world and triggering the hostage crisis; and arming the Mujahideen (including young Osama bin Laden) when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. We are suffering the consequences of that now, 40 years later.
Carter, on the other hand, was a fool. I can't think of one single impressive thing he did while in office. When you're so bad that your party holds its nose and tries to get Ted Kennedy to run against you, that says all you need to know.
I think Carter is a terrific ex-president, when he's not blathering about how much he hates The Donald, and Obama is a horrible ex-president who doesn't seem to realize that his time is up. I also think Jimmy Carter genuinely loves this country, whereas Obama has been clear that he hates America and Americans, especially the white ones.
But Carter was a terrible ignorant and tone deaf president - an enormous national mistake. His legacy is bringing the Shah of Iran to the US, provoking the Muslim world and triggering the hostage crisis; and arming the Mujahideen (including young Osama bin Laden) when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. We are suffering the consequences of that now, 40 years later.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
But then don't forget Obama created ISIS, Traded 5 terrorists for a traitor,Sent millions to a nation that aborns terrorists, and sent guns to drug dealers.
awpitt
Main Streeter
Well, if we look past the negative, there were a few Carter accomplishments. Folks may not agree with them but they were accomplishments none the less.
Doubled the size of the National Park system
Seventy percent of his legislation was passed
Airline deregulation
Camp David Accords
Egypt-Israel peace treaty
Created two new Depts (Education & Energy) that consolidated and streamlined a patchwork of disorganized agencies
Established diplomatic relations with China
Panama Canal Treaties
The stealth bombers and Tomahawk cruise missiles have been used over the years were started by Carter
And now for the most important one…..
He lifted federal restrictions on home brewing.