The Murder Of Alfie Evans

[This_person]

Eugene Robinson is so full of #### that if he praises something you can be pretty certain it's either a lie or advances the leftwing cause.

The latter. That's why I said Bush had no constitutional authority to set it up (nor did Congress in funding it, for that matter). But, none of that changes the fact that tens of millions of Africans are alive today because of the left-wing, unconstitutional actions of President Bush.

 

[black dog]

While we can debate who should have the right to decide what quality of life justifies not being forced to starve to death by government mandate, I'll simply answer the final question - whoever is paying for the air ambulance or the Italian citizenship given the child or the Italian hospital care, it is not the UK taxpayer, and thus none of the UK judicial system's concern.

It's pretty common way to parish in the civilized and uncivilized world we live in... My father had Parkinson's and couldn't easily swallow and when he died at 82 he weighed 86 pounds. Cognitive, alert and humorous.
He started to death..
I had 12 great aunt's and uncle's, about half had Alzheimer's and all died wasted away to nothing curled up in a fetal ball, All starved to death..
We all die, we all hope for fast and painless. But alas it always does not work out that way.
It always seems to be a infant or a child that's thrust into the limelight to show how bad man can be, but in reality it's just a slow news day.


None of us are making it out of here alive..

 

[black dog]

if this child has no quality of life, and never did, how can the parents' desire to remove him from the hospital risk significant harm to him? This above all else is what I don't understand. The hospital has decided that it is not worth providing additional care to the child, that his life is no longer worth fighting for, so why on earth would they not allow the parents' to remove him from the hospital.

The court system has made the decision. And I believe that all through there court system this decision has been held.
.The court has parental control and has decided to let this childs life end.
Does one think that over two years of living on machines isn't enough?
This infant is a bag of jello....

 

[This_person]

It's pretty common way to parish in the civilized and uncivilized world we live in... My father had Parkinson's and couldn't easily swallow and when he died at 82 he weighed 86 pounds. Cognitive, alert and humorous.
He started to death..
I had 12 great aunt's and uncle's, about half had Alzheimer's and all died wasted away to nothing curled up in a fetal ball, All starved to death..
We all die, we all hope for fast and painless. But alas it always does not work out that way.
It always seems to be a infant or a child that's thrust into the limelight to show how bad man can be, but in reality it's just a slow news day.


None of us are making it out of here alive..

I agree that no one gets out alive. I agree others have starved to death.

I bet your father, aunts, and uncles were not ordered to starve to death by the government, though. This is the difference to me.

This kid is going to die. It might be today, it might be in 96 years. I'm leaning a lot closer to today, regardless of medical treatment, based on what I've been able to read. That means exactly nothing. The problem is the government's insistence this kid die sooner rather than later while denying the parents the right to try another treatment at exactly zero cost to the UK government/taxpayer.

It may be that not a sole in the world can help him. That's not for the courts to decide, in my opinion. Especially when the UK taxpayer is not on the hook to pay for it. By ordering the denial of food they are killing him regardless of any illness the child has. They are deciding the Italian government has no right to pay for trying to help this kid - regardless of how futile it seems that may be.

Why should the government have that authority?

 

[black dog]

I agree that no one gets out alive. I agree others have starved to death.

I bet your father, aunts, and uncles were not ordered to starve to death by the government, though. This is the difference to me.

This kid is going to die. It might be today, it might be in 96 years. I'm leaning a lot closer to today, regardless of medical treatment, based on what I've been able to read. That means exactly nothing. The problem is the government's insistence this kid die sooner rather than later while denying the parents the right to try another treatment at exactly zero cost to the UK government/taxpayer.

It may be that not a sole in the world can help him. That's not for the courts to decide, in my opinion. Especially when the UK taxpayer is not on the hook to pay for it. By ordering the denial of food they are killing him regardless of any illness the child has. They are deciding the Italian government has no right to pay for trying to help this kid - regardless of how futile it seems that may be.

Why should the government have that authority?

The people of the UK gave the government the right.

 

[vraiblonde]

The people of the UK gave the government the right.

This is worth repeating:

The people of the UK wanted this.

And in fact, if you hop onto a social media discussion about why people from other countries think the US sucks, government provided health care is one of the first things they mention.

So not only do they want it, they love it and criticize us because we don't have it.

 

[Kyle]

And in fact, if you hop onto a social media discussion about why people from other countries think the US sucks, government provided health care is one of the first things they mention.

So not only do they want it, they love it and criticize us because we don't have it.

And this is an example of why private pay is a better option.

 

[GURPS]

A British doctor treating Alfie Evans told reporters off the record his parents won’t be allowed to take their child out of the hospital, even to die at home, unless there is a “sea change” in their attitude.

A report from The Telegraph indicates the hospital staff is not interested in what’s best for Alfie, so much as proving a point to the parents, who have an “attitude” they don’t like. Here’s the revealing bit, buried in the Telegraph report:

Instead, the judge said the best Alfie’s parents could hope for was to “explore” the options of removing him from intensive care either to a ward, a hospice or his home.

But a doctor treating Alfie, who cannot be named for legal reasons, said that for Alfie to be allowed home would require a “sea change” in attitude from the child’s family, and they feared that in the “worst case” they would try to take the boy abroad.​

In sum: The doctors have determined Alfie must die, and he must die in the hospital, unless the parents change their attitude.



http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/26...-die-because-his-parents-have-a-bad-attitude/

 

[This_person]

This is worth repeating:

The people of the UK wanted this.

And in fact, if you hop onto a social media discussion about why people from other countries think the US sucks, government provided health care is one of the first things they mention.

So not only do they want it, they love it and criticize us because we don't have it.

I agree with both of you.

THAT is why this story resonates with me.

We are a unique nation in that we are founded on the unique idea that the people have inherent rights, not the government. Unlike every other government - democracy, republic, "free", or whatever - we believe the people grant the government rights, not the other way around. That is our true nature.

So, while I agree with you the Brits think they gave that authority to the government, the fact is it is the other way around. Their government gives them what rights they see fit.

That is why I said above that this is what single-payer medical service looks like. We need to make sure that people know this is what it looks like, so no one continues to try and give us such an atrocity in our lifetimes.

 

[Kyle]

We need to make sure that people know this is what it looks like, so no one continues to try and give us such an atrocity in our lifetimes.

That is likely already lost.

We've got two full generations, and significant portions of others, that believe it is the duty of government to take care of them.

At this point we're bailing the Titanic with a dixie cup.

 

[This_person]

That is likely already lost.

We've got two full generations, and significant portions of others, that believe it is the duty of government to take care of them.

At this point we're bailing the Titanic with a dixie cup.

It literally keeps me up at night thinking you may be correct.

 

[Kyle]

It literally keeps me up at night thinking you may be correct.

Never know... Things might right themselves.

Another conflict like the ACW would do it.

 

[GURPS]

Never know... Things might right themselves.

when the country runs out of Other Peoples MONEY and can no longer support the welfare state .....
Open Warfare as Citizens and Welfare Roaches fight over the scraps

 

[Kyle]

Open Warfare as Citizens and Welfare Roaches fight over the scraps

I have my resources stocked.

 

[vraiblonde]

It literally keeps me up at night thinking you may be correct.

I see us trying to correct this but, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.* It took generations for socialism to take hold; you can't expect one election and four years to right the ship.* Especially when there's money and power involved in keeping the status quo.




*Should I translate all that for those who don't understand common American idioms?

 

[Kyle]

I see us trying to correct this but, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.* It took generations for socialism to take hold; you can't expect one election and four years to right the ship.*

It only took four years to subdue the Democrats last time it was done right. 1861-1865

 

[This_person]

I see us trying to correct this but, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day.* It took generations for socialism to take hold; you can't expect one election and four years to right the ship.* Especially when there's money and power involved in keeping the status quo.

I do see us as trying, but between things like Trump's budget, his acquiescing to states' nullification over the drug laws, discussion of restrictions on gun ownership after championing a "Constitutional carry" concept, I get worried we are still moving backwards instead of forwards.

 

[vraiblonde]

I do see us as trying, but between things like Trump's budget, his acquiescing to states' nullification over the drug laws, discussion of restrictions on gun ownership after championing a "Constitutional carry" concept, I get worried we are still moving backwards instead of forwards.

See, and I think Trump is a step in the right direction. You have to wean the People off of fascism. The younger ones, that's all they've ever known. They're crying now about their student loans that they voluntarily took out fully knowing what payback would entail. And even the oldsters have always had government programs their whole entire lives.

Anyone who says they are going to cut out welfare, shoot to kill illegal border crossers, and get rid of government retirement programs will not get elected, period. Ron Paul "burn it down" method doesn't play well with most Americans because we've never known a country without nannying. We wouldn't know where to start taking responsibility for ourselves. We can't even decide to eat at non-smoking restaurants - we had to have the government force them to all be non-smoking.

Slow and steady wins the race.*


*Clem, Sap - that's from a fable by Aesop where the faster hare got overconfident and ended up losing a race to the slow but steady turtle. We Americans use it as a short cut when talking to each other about ways to proceed with something.

 

[black dog]

I have my resources stocked.

I learned very well during the Reagan and Clinton Administrations..

 

[black dog]

It only took four years to subdue the Democrats last time it was done right. 1861-1865

And these Democrats for the most part, arn't armed.. Just sayin'