Thanks. I didn't spend a lot of time down there, probably why I don't remember seeing it.
To the Wonderful SUV Driver
- Thread starter migtig
- Start date
awpitt
Main Streeter
So if someone back into someone else's car and leaves the scene, (hot & run misdemeanor), and people witness it and call the cops, the cop can't find the person and write them a ticket or arrest them because the cop didn't witness the hit and run?
I, actually, always thought that an arrest can be made or a citation can be issued by a private citizen if they sign a complaint and show up to court. A citizens arrest, I will look up what the stipulations are.
awpitt
Main Streeter
I don't know about the citizens arrest aspect but I am aware of situations where a citizen witnesses a traffic violation calls and reports it. COP investigates, finds, and cites the offender. Then the case would have to go to court and the judge would have to decide based on the credibility of the citizen witness who reported the traffic violation. The witness would have to testify in court and be cross examined by the defendant or the defendant's lawyer.
Here are the stipulations.
"Maryland’s Court of Appeals has found that at common law private citizens and peace officers have the right to make arrests of those suspected of committing a crime. In Maryland in order to have the authority to make a citizen’s arrest, a public citizen must meet some qualifications: 1) a felony (such as murder in the first degree or theft of at least $1,000) was committed in their presence; 2) the public citizen has reasonable grounds to believe the detained person committed a felony; or 3) the person committed a misdemeanor (such as trespass, or thefts under $1,000) which amounts to a breach of the peace in the presence or sight of the arresting citizen. - See more at: https://extension.umd.edu/learn/can-i-make-citizen%E2%80%99s-arrest#sthash.XRQTk6nS.dpuf"
It also says that private citizens should never detain a suspect and cops should be the only ones to take the suspect into custody since they have a qualified immunity that protects them from liability.
"Maryland’s Court of Appeals has found that at common law private citizens and peace officers have the right to make arrests of those suspected of committing a crime. In Maryland in order to have the authority to make a citizen’s arrest, a public citizen must meet some qualifications: 1) a felony (such as murder in the first degree or theft of at least $1,000) was committed in their presence; 2) the public citizen has reasonable grounds to believe the detained person committed a felony; or 3) the person committed a misdemeanor (such as trespass, or thefts under $1,000) which amounts to a breach of the peace in the presence or sight of the arresting citizen. - See more at: https://extension.umd.edu/learn/can-i-make-citizen%E2%80%99s-arrest#sthash.XRQTk6nS.dpuf"
It also says that private citizens should never detain a suspect and cops should be the only ones to take the suspect into custody since they have a qualified immunity that protects them from liability.
Freefaller
Active Member
MMDad
Lem Putt
Wrong.
Beta
Smile!
You do realize that migtig's "assertion" is that passing during the school zone is illegal, right? Everyone else indicated that it's based on the lines on the road. So the assertion isn't any less valid based on your amazingly difficult and fully in depth research, since you're basing it off of what other people said.
However, someone pulled up the law book and indicated it's not in there. Maybe different states have different laws and migtig was thinking of another state, or maybe it was just an attempt at using common sense. If you're supposed to drive carefully and slowly, why would you be passing people even if it's legal? It's a short distance and children can be present. Not a smart move, regardless of whether or not it's legal.
A. You forgot a #1.
2. Maybe if the vehicle is OBSTRUCTING traffic, but just because they're essentially following the speed limit doesn't allow for passing on a double yellow line. Obstructing, as in driving 10+ mph below the speed limit (and even then, I think it's a ticketable offense for the drive, but doesn't mean you can pass), or perhaps if the vehicle is BROKEN DOWN and you have no choice but to pass over the double yellow. Try learning how to understand the laws and the verbiage behind them before blindly applying them.
D. Yeah, sounds like it already got your noodle.
Kinnakeet
Well-Known Member
CALL the police and they might come to said area and obseve for a couple days,I did this 2 times where I live because the tractor trailers full of trash were traveling 70 mph in a 40 mph zone,they came and used radar for a couple of days and bingo no more tractor trailers.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
Wow, you're good at sarcasm.
How were my comments based on "what other people said"? Migtig directly asserted ("forcefully stated as a fact") that it was illegal to pass in a school zone ("Since you are obviously unaware ... passing in a school zone is prohibited"). Nope; I merely pointed out that since the state's signage permits passing in at least one easily visible case, that assertion is inappropriate. Additionally, as I pointed out earlier, there is nothing in the MD transportation code or driver's manual about passing in a school zone. In case you missed it,
http://forums.somd.com/threads/300839-To-the-Wonderful-SUV-Driver?p=5540080&viewfull=1#post5540080
Mine is purely a factual comment, not a matter of opinion. Drivers are legally allowed to pass in a school zone if the markings and signage on the road permit it.
With that said, my opinion is that migtig is right that it's illegal to pass on a double yellow line, and stupidly illegal to do it at high speed in a school zone. But it benefits us all to understand what the law really says, and not spread misinformation about the law.
H
Hodr
Guest
Look atme, I can use annoying colors too!
In case you didn't catch it (and clearly you didn't) my first point about the cameras was facetious. I was quite obviously poking fun of the OPs position that an officer must witness an event by taking it to an absurd extreme.
As to my second point, as others have pointed out you are clearly incorrect. I could collaborate this with personal experience. I witnessed a vehicle collision where both parties were incapacitated (one of which was a police officer). When the police arrived on the scene they took my statement and used it to provide a citation to the at-fault driver.
probably not, typically passing zones (dashed yellow lines) are not close to intersections and I would think a school would classify as an intersection in SHAs mind.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
Real life says otherwise.
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You're not understanding what I'm saying. Let me try to spell this out for you.
Let's say, for example, that there's a dotted line for passing in front of your house. If you have a sign down the street from your house that says "This is a No Passing Zone from 7am - 5pm" then even though there's a dotted line, you still wouldn't be legally allowed to pass during the hours listed. Do you agree? It's the same thing as if there's a left turn lane, but a sign says "No left turns from 7am - 5pm." That means there are no left turns during that timeframe, regardless of the left turn lane.
So when migtig asserted that it's illegal to pass in a school zone, the indication is that the school zone sign (which is over the course of certain hours) prohibits passing - NOT the dotted vs. solid lines. Thus, when everyone else said that the school zone itself has no impact on the legality of passing vs. not passing (by saying there's no law banning it in Maryland), your exercise merely established what school zones provide the option to pass. It's a good exercise and it was educational, but it has nothing to do with what mig initially argued. In fact, you pointed to locations where mig would have argued you legally couldn't pass, even though there were dotted lines, because there is an active school zone. Do you understand the subtle difference?
Interesting, well the line is not broken, so it's not an intersection, but they have a right turn lane, and that side of the road can legally pass.
What school is that?
Just looked at another school and it looks like they don't consider the entrance/exit and intersection.
But the median was a double yellow at that school because it's just south of an intersection and the road has a slight curve
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terbear1225
Well-Known Member
You are correct, I should have said that police typically wont give a citation without seeing the violation UNLESS there is evidenceto support the witness as in the case of stoplight cameras or a hit and run where there is corroborating evidence.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
At a community meeting recently, the officers told us that if we call them with specific evidence (video, photos, and plate/tag number, they will often contact the guilty party and "counsel" them. They may not charge them, but it sure will get them thinking about what they're doing wrong.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
St Michael's School, just north along 235 of the intersection with 5 in Ridge. If you look further on Google, you'll see that the passing zone extends the entire length of the school entrances/exits. There are no double-solid-yellow markings at all.
https://goo.gl/maps/OUv2k
My point exactly. The school zone has no effect on the legality of passing. The only added thing the "School Zone" signs say is "FINES DOUBLED". Fair enough.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
Chill out with the snark, please. I'm happy to have a polite discussion, even if we disagree.
I believe I do understand, yes. If such signs existed, you would have a point. But you're not correct, because such signs do NOT exist at the locations in question. Furthermore, you're incorrect that I "pointed to locations where mig would have argued you legally couldn't pass". In fact, I pointed out the opposite - a location where you legally CAN pass.
If you take five minutes to look on Google Maps at the only two schools in question that meet migtig's criteria (on 235 where the road is not divided, e.g. Spring Ridge and St Michaels), or you drive down there and actually look, you'll find that there are no signs at either school that prohibit passing, or change the rules at certain times of day. The only signage says "SCHOOL" and "FINES DOUBLED".
Of those two schools, Spring Ridge has double yellow lines. Obviously that's the specific location in question for the original complaint. I agree, passing there is illegal, but only because of the double yellow line. But the traffic control signals around St Michaels clearly permit passing without time-of-day restriction. So my ENTIRE POINT is that migtig is wrong in asserting it's illegal to pass in a school zone, as the photographic evidence clearly shows.
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Oh my goodness. You're not understanding. I get what you're saying, but your entire premise is based on the fact that there would be markings that indicate it's illegal, whether there are solid lines or signs that say "no passing". That's not what mig was saying at all.
You know how some laws aren't specified by signs, like how some states used to have "no right turn on red" or you can't drink and drive or even though there's no sign at every intersection, you should know that you can't drive the wrong way on a road, etc. The point was to suggest that the school zone "implies" that you can't pass based on a law. Not that there are always lines or signs in a school zone prohibit passing. You're going based on seeing the lines and signs and saying "well, there aren't any signs and since there are dotted lines, obviously you can pass!" That's a true statement, but it wasn't the point being discussed. As it was pointed out to mig, there isn't a law (in Maryland, anyway) that prohibits passing in a school zone. We're talking about laws, not road signs.