United Propane @ St. Leonard - Robbing us again

dave1959

dave1959

Active Member
daylily said:
We're about to leave them because of all their BS. We currently rent a tank from them and asked how much we can buy it for so we can switch companies. They refuse to sell the tank to us and it's buried in the ground so they want to charge us "less than $1,000" to dig it up. Working our way up the chain of command until they allow us to buy it. Not gonna spend $1,000 to have it removed, then spend more money for another propane company to drop their tank in......which they know and are basically holding over our heads. Interestingly enough, the other tank we have is an owned tank that they buried for the previous owner so at some point, they "sold" their tanks in addition to renting them.

And coincidently, an employee we spoke with a month ago who agreed to certain conditions to "keep us as customers" just quit so what he said to us doesn't mean crap right now even though the conversation was documented on our account. Really professional. If a customer is advised something by an employee, past or present, for the sake of good customer service the company should follow through. It would've cost them $250. With their prices, they can certainly afford $250 to keep a customer with 2 tanks. :smack:



We're in process of swithing over to them. They're helping us update our hideous fireplace and I'm impressed with their customer service. Their prices are certainly better than United Propane's, definitely worth switching companies for. Maybe their drivers will actually show up to fill the tank when they're supposed to, fill the correct tank (didn't really need the pool tank filled in November) and maybe they'll bill us correctly without us having to call every time, what a concept. :whistle:
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Do you actually have a signed contract in your name stateing this ? If not stop using it and tell them if they want it come and get it..
 
Baja28

Baja28

Obama destroyed America
dave1959 said:
Do you actually have a signed contract in your name stateing this ? If not stop using it and tell them if they want it come and get it..
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:yeahthat: I've never had propane but something doesn't sound right. Seems to me there should be a contract of some sort allowing them to bury something on your property. If there isn't, stop paying the bill and ignore them. Get your own above ground tank from another company. Be sure to document everything to United.
 
N

nutz

Well-Known Member
daylily said:
Interestingly enough, the other tank we have is an owned tank that they buried for the previous owner so at some point, they "sold" their tanks in addition to renting them.
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I totally missed this part until I read baja's comment. Why have two tanks at all? You can run "high pressure" from the tank to more than one regulator. Run a new line from the owned tank to wherever the second tank supplies. May not be the easiest, but once done it'll be forever done.
Dave hit a good point too. I would ask United for a copy of the original contract you signed. If they can't produce their copy, they won't be able to enforce the terms. :popcorn:
 
S

saquane

New Member
greeneyes36 said:
okay, so this is becoming my annual rant... after a $500 bill ($6.70/gal) in October ...that when i called to protest was reduced to $3.99... as i was promised Market Value on all future billing, only 8 months earlier.... they reduced my bill to almost half... Life is good....
Until i come home last week to another $230 bill..... which i'm getting charged the $6.71 fee again... only this time when i call to question the billing, after being placed on hold for a while, i'm told "our manager says Corporate says they are no longer offering Market Value pricing"... can anyone confirm if they receive Market Value pricing or not??? I've placed a call to Corporate office in Millersville, awaiting a return call. I'm really thinking AERO is going to gain my business here soon...
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S J Johnson locally owned and operated now offering $2.99 pg over 150 gallon. No complicated tier system,contract, rude people and your money grows in your community.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Baja28 said:
:yeahthat: I've never had propane but something doesn't sound right. Seems to me there should be a contract of some sort allowing them to bury something on your property. If there isn't, stop paying the bill and ignore them. Get your own above ground tank from another company. Be sure to document everything to United.
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I'd wonder how they could identify it as their tank?

If another company comes up to put fuel in it, how would they know it's a United Tank, and if you bought the tank how would they change it so it wouldn't be identifiable as a United owned tank?

Ask Taylor to come fill it up, and if they ask tell them it's your tank, came with the house when you bought it, and then decide if you want to keep spending the money leasing the tank (I would assume United doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as requiring you to use their gas for a tank that you PAY for)

If the tank was free I could see the requirement to use their gas, but you are paying for the tank whether you buy it or lease it.


When leases on cars became big there was similar issue as some car dealerships were REQUIRING you to have your car serviced at their dealership, as part of the leasing contract. Courts ruled against them even with the contracts in place. For lack of a better term, if you are paying for it, YOU are the owner and can service it (or have it filled in the case of the tank) any which way you want.
 
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saquane

New Member
There is no really way to id the tank but, pretty much every company is gonna ask if you own the tank, if you say you do then they are gonna ask for proof of purchase but, you can certainly try.
 
S

saquane

New Member
filling others tank

itsbob said:
I'd wonder how they could identify it as their tank?

If another company comes up to put fuel in it, how would they know it's a United Tank, and if you bought the tank how would they change it so it wouldn't be identifiable as a United owned tank?

Ask Taylor to come fill it up, and if they ask tell them it's your tank, came with the house when you bought it, and then decide if you want to keep spending the money leasing the tank (I would assume United doesn't have a leg to stand on as far as requiring you to use their gas for a tank that you PAY for)

If the tank was free I could see the requirement to use their gas, but you are paying for the tank whether you buy it or lease it.


When leases on cars became big there was similar issue as some car dealerships were REQUIRING you to have your car serviced at their dealership, as part of the leasing contract. Courts ruled against them even with the contracts in place. For lack of a better term, if you are paying for it, YOU are the owner and can service it (or have it filled in the case of the tank) any which way you want.
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There is no real way to identify the tank but, most companies will ask for proof of ownership if you say you own it. If you do not have proof they probably won't fill as they will assume liability for something they don't service nor own.
 
N

nutz

Well-Known Member
saquane said:
There is no real way to identify the tank but, most companies will ask for proof of ownership if you say you own it. If you do not have proof they probably won't fill as they will assume liability for something they don't service nor own.
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correct. They will ask for a receipt and the receipt has to have the serial number of the tank. They will then visually inspect the tank for serviceability before filling, kinda tricky on an underground install. Probably just honor among thieves keeps them from filling leased tanks.
 
LynnR

LynnR

New Member
Propane Solution

I was on a friends facebook page - he owns SJ Johnson Co. They just started propane delivery. Someone posted a really good review about them - (copy and pasted from facebook, I moved into my house about 6 months ago. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that runs the fireplace, hot water heater and generator. Well I checked on it today and it was about 5%. I called Saquane Johnson with SJ Johnson company and he was here in an hour and filled it up! That's superior customer service. I highly recommend SJ and thanks for coming so quick — with Saquane Johnson. Jeff G in St.Leonard]

That might be an answer for you if you don't get a resolution to your problem with your current company.
 
frequentflier

frequentflier

happy to be living
LynnR said:
I was on a friends facebook page - he owns SJ Johnson Co. They just started propane delivery. Someone posted a really good review about them - (copy and pasted from facebook, I moved into my house about 6 months ago. I have a 500 gallon propane tank that runs the fireplace, hot water heater and generator. Well I checked on it today and it was about 5%. I called Saquane Johnson with SJ Johnson company and he was here in an hour and filled it up! That's superior customer service. I highly recommend SJ and thanks for coming so quick — with Saquane Johnson. Jeff G in St.Leonard]

That might be an answer for you if you don't get a resolution to your problem with your current company.
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great 1st post, Lynn. :bigwhoop:
 
flyingdog

flyingdog

Member
We had this very issue. We moved into our house and we were told that United owned the tank and that we were to get gas from them b/c of this. The apparent agreement signed by the original owner was that only they could fill the tank b/c it was United's tank. The agreement was a 3 year agreement that automatically renewed annually and if you wanted to end it you needed to give 90 days notice. You also had to pay a removal fee of $600 AND get the tank out and have it available for pickup (i.e. take it out of the ground yourself). We only started looking into this when we wanted to build a screen porch and we were considering getting close to the tank and were thinking about moving it anyhow.

Then it dawned on us - we were never informed about this tank ownership when we went to buy the house. There were no liens on the house. When we asked the original owner about this afterward he indicated that United told him the same thing - that they owned the tank - and he was the original owner of the house. Talking with a lawyer indicated that this was sometimes done - a handshake deal between the builder and United - so United probably put the tanks in the ground for some great deal to the builder with the idea that they still owned the tank. Who knows how/if the original home purchaser was ever told.

We did try to purchase the tank from United. First we were told not to bother b/c we were promised the owners gas rate - which lasted for one fill only. So we pursued further to purchase the tank. We got told some song/dance that you don't want to do this for liability reasons, how expensive this could be if something goes wrong, etc. BUT they were willing to sell it to us -for more than the tank was valued at new - the tank was now 15 years old. When we did the math on how much it cost for a tank we realized very quickly that it would only take us less than 2 years to recover our cost because of how much United was gorging us in overpricing the gas. When they wouldn't sell us the tank at a reasonable price we started to investigate their actual ownership further. I also contacted the VP in Millersville to attempt to get a reasonable offer for this tank.

United never could prove they owned the tank to us. You see when you own something on someone elses property you are to file a UCC-1 form that indicates this and should come up when someone goes to buy the house (part of deed search) so the home purchaser knows what they will and will not own on that property. We inquired with another gas company they indicated that they needed proof of ownership for legal reasons. We told them the story and also told them that we had the deed to the house - which in our eyes indicated ownership. They were okay with this and filled our tank for us. I kept United informed, gave them notice. Now, with a full tank, United came and locked our tank out and took the regulator on the tank, claiming it there tank. I called the VP again at this point, he understood concerns, and said the sales guy would be contacting us. They did have someone come out and unlock the tank and put the regulator back on. They wanted me to sign for this 'service' both the locking and unlocking. I denied them that - I said I would sign that it was done but would not sign to pay for the service. The poor service guy was almost told to go back and lock it again, but the sales guy finally agreed that he was okay with this, all the while promising no charge for the service. Of course I received a bill for both the locking/unlocking, contacted the VP in Millersville and the sales guy here, asking again for the UCC file - and never received it. At this point they realized they didn't have anything on us. I did not receive another bill and recently checked my credit to be sure they did not report a delinquency. For all sakes and purposes, we now own our tank, but I do fear trying to leave this current company since I don't have proof of ownership outside of property deed and paperwork from both United and our current company that says they are filling the tank at a Customer Owned Tank. I sure hope this suffices if we try to leave our current company. They, too, had us sign a service agreement for x time and also pay for a lawfully required inspection that is ~$100.

Take from my experiences what you will. I do agree that my fear is the folks that don't know any better getting gorged for overpriced gas. I would be more than happy to start a movement to put a stop to this. Even though it is not happening to me any more it is disgusting.
 
G

greeneyes36

New Member
flyingdog said:
We had this very issue. We moved into our house and we were told that United owned the tank and that we were to get gas from them b/c of this. The apparent agreement signed by the original owner was that only they could fill the tank b/c it was United's tank. The agreement was a 3 year agreement that automatically renewed annually and if you wanted to end it you needed to give 90 days notice. You also had to pay a removal fee of $600 AND get the tank out and have it available for pickup (i.e. take it out of the ground yourself). We only started looking into this when we wanted to build a screen porch and we were considering getting close to the tank and were thinking about moving it anyhow.

Then it dawned on us - we were never informed about this tank ownership when we went to buy the house. There were no liens on the house. When we asked the original owner about this afterward he indicated that United told him the same thing - that they owned the tank - and he was the original owner of the house. Talking with a lawyer indicated that this was sometimes done - a handshake deal between the builder and United - so United probably put the tanks in the ground for some great deal to the builder with the idea that they still owned the tank. Who knows how/if the original home purchaser was ever told.

We did try to purchase the tank from United. First we were told not to bother b/c we were promised the owners gas rate - which lasted for one fill only. So we pursued further to purchase the tank. We got told some song/dance that you don't want to do this for liability reasons, how expensive this could be if something goes wrong, etc. BUT they were willing to sell it to us -for more than the tank was valued at new - the tank was now 15 years old. When we did the math on how much it cost for a tank we realized very quickly that it would only take us less than 2 years to recover our cost because of how much United was gorging us in overpricing the gas. When they wouldn't sell us the tank at a reasonable price we started to investigate their actual ownership further. I also contacted the VP in Millersville to attempt to get a reasonable offer for this tank.

United never could prove they owned the tank to us. You see when you own something on someone elses property you are to file a UCC-1 form that indicates this and should come up when someone goes to buy the house (part of deed search) so the home purchaser knows what they will and will not own on that property. We inquired with another gas company they indicated that they needed proof of ownership for legal reasons. We told them the story and also told them that we had the deed to the house - which in our eyes indicated ownership. They were okay with this and filled our tank for us. I kept United informed, gave them notice. Now, with a full tank, United came and locked our tank out and took the regulator on the tank, claiming it there tank. I called the VP again at this point, he understood concerns, and said the sales guy would be contacting us. They did have someone come out and unlock the tank and put the regulator back on. They wanted me to sign for this 'service' both the locking and unlocking. I denied them that - I said I would sign that it was done but would not sign to pay for the service. The poor service guy was almost told to go back and lock it again, but the sales guy finally agreed that he was okay with this, all the while promising no charge for the service. Of course I received a bill for both the locking/unlocking, contacted the VP in Millersville and the sales guy here, asking again for the UCC file - and never received it. At this point they realized they didn't have anything on us. I did not receive another bill and recently checked my credit to be sure they did not report a delinquency. For all sakes and purposes, we now own our tank, but I do fear trying to leave this current company since I don't have proof of ownership outside of property deed and paperwork from both United and our current company that says they are filling the tank at a Customer Owned Tank. I sure hope this suffices if we try to leave our current company. They, too, had us sign a service agreement for x time and also pay for a lawfully required inspection that is ~$100.

Take from my experiences what you will. I do agree that my fear is the folks that don't know any better getting gorged for overpriced gas. I would be more than happy to start a movement to put a stop to this. Even though it is not happening to me any more it is disgusting.
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THANK YOU. so, if they cannot provide me a UCC-1, i shouldnt have any issues with CANCELING their service and refilling with another company?! i am so over this. they did send me an adjusted bill... $4.99/gal just because i called and complained. Okay, so why charge me $6.71/gal from the start if you can just adjust my bill because i called? Assume i'm going to call and give the $4.99 rate to start with. why price-gauge 12+ yr customers!!?!?!? grrr... okay, so my comment about being so over it, was not true. LOL. thanks again for all of the input... appreciate the time you all have spent commenting.
 
flyingdog

flyingdog

Member
greeneyes36 said:
THANK YOU. so, if they cannot provide me a UCC-1, i shouldnt have any issues with CANCELING their service and refilling with another company?! i am so over this. they did send me an adjusted bill... $4.99/gal just because i called and complained. Okay, so why charge me $6.71/gal from the start if you can just adjust my bill because i called? Assume i'm going to call and give the $4.99 rate to start with. why price-gauge 12+ yr customers!!?!?!? grrr... okay, so my comment about being so over it, was not true. LOL. thanks again for all of the input... appreciate the time you all have spent commenting.
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Hahahah, you sound like me. There ought to be a support group. I feel so much better knowing I was not alone in this. Although I hate that others who are not as righteous as I am are getting taken advantage of.

greeneyes36 said:
So, if they cannot provide me a UCC-1, i shouldnt have any issues with CANCELING their service and refilling with another company?!
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Welllllllll, in theory this is true. I presume you purchased your house and had the title/deed search done and it did not come up. Is your tank in ground or above ground? Not that it matters but it was said to me along my journey that most in ground tanks SHOULD be owned by the land owner. In this case it was back to the handshake builder deal. I'm not saying, nor ever saying, that this was not the agreement between the builder and the original owner, but they can't expect the next owner to be responsible for this if they are not informed, so yes, if you purchased the house and were not informed then you should have an argument that you own the tank.

You can search for a UCC here SDAT: Entity Search Results but I'm not sure how far back the electronic records go. I do think I read that you also need to update a UCC every few years. There should be a file number and they could never supply this for me. I think what happened is it was never filed. Did they own the tank? I don't know - but I do know that I don't want my neighbor coming over and saying he owns my beer fridge and he had this agreement with the previous owner.

Here is the big crux of it all - you still need to be able to get gas - and you really don't have a document saying you own the tank. We were lucky enough to find a company that was willing to do this for us using our deed. They also realize that folks are getting screwed and I guess take the chance (and let's face it - they wanted our business). I do fear not having any other proof of ownership. I am not sure what would happen if I asked another company to come out, tell them I have proof of ownership, and give them a copy of our deed. I don't think some companies look for proof of ownership until delivery and could just give it to the driver? We have not crossed that bridge yet as we did get the owners rate from our current company.

Good luck and let me know how it turns out.
 
C

creekman

New Member
willie said:
Does it sound worse than United?
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No company is worse than United Propane. After a $5.75 per gallon bill because I didn't use enough gas , I'm ready for to fire them. But they own my tank, won't sell it and it costs an arm and a leg to get rid of them. Its not over yet though.
 
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