Universal Basic Income

[Larry Gude]

Actually, while skills training is one thing, another is infrastructure improvement (who would build a factory near a failing bridge so they can't get their goods out, or where their employee's kids would have crappy schools, or where the only internet is dial-up, or.....), another is investing in the useful arts (grants to colleges to look at better ways to build mousetraps like solar energy production, or how to safely store spent nuclear fuel, or how to get more good crops from the same acreage, or how to get 100 mpg from a pickup truck and still be able to pull a 26' Bayliner, or.....).

These kinds of things encourage people to get INTO business, not out of business. Paying people to sit on their asses is a great way to encourage the Chinese to have 3 year olds making cheap tennis shoes.

Again, all we're arguing about is to what level we care for one another. Build a road, encourage a business, great. Business wants more profit, American's are in the way, hire some illegals. Or send the jobs over seas. Thanks for the business!

Sitting on ones ass didn't make Chinese labor cheap. In fact, if you take a look, Chinese labor is fast catching up. Right now, it's only about 4% less expensive than US labor if you include everything including shipping but most corporations would sell their mom for 1% let alone 4. The shareholders demand it.

 

[This_person]

That's not the question. Before gummint, you worked to survive. Civilization and success and quest for profit means we no longer need to work to survive. There used to be work. Now, there is not. And, yes, you are talking expressly about funding business. If the gummint spends a dollar to teach you to weld when there is no company that wants a welder and isn't interested in teaching a welder, you're not only funding business you're threatening every welder who has a job.

So, let me see if I have this straight; if there is no company that wants a welder, and as a government I spend money to generate a person with welding skills, then I am funding business? Which business am I funding?

 

[This_person]

Again, all we're arguing about is to what level we care for one another. Build a road, encourage a business, great. Business wants more profit, American's are in the way, hire some illegals. Or send the jobs over seas. Thanks for the business!

Sitting on ones ass didn't make Chinese labor cheap. In fact, if you take a look, Chinese labor is fast catching up. Right now, it's only about 4% less expensive than US labor if you include everything including shipping but most corporations would sell their mom for 1% let alone 4. The shareholders demand it.

Actually, we're talking about whether government is responsible to each individual citizen to pay their bills, or responsible to support general commerce to allow individuals to be responsible for themselves.

That is to say, it is government's responsibility to provide an infrastructure, not a paycheck.

 

[Larry Gude]

Actually, we're talking about whether government is responsible to each individual citizen to pay their bills, or responsible to support general commerce to allow individuals to be responsible for themselves.

That is to say, it is government's responsibility to provide an infrastructure, not a paycheck.

Again, you side with a corporation over a citizen.

 

[Larry Gude]

So, let me see if I have this straight; if there is no company that wants a welder, and as a government I spend money to generate a person with welding skills, then I am funding business? Which business am I funding?

Their ability to now pay the welder they have even less because there is excess supply of welders. Created by the gummint.

It's disheartening to have to explain the easy stuff.

 

[kwillia]

Their ability to now pay the welder they have even less because there is excess supply of welders. Created by the gummint.

It's disheartening to have to explain the easy stuff.

Just like the big push for everybody to get a college degree.

 

[GURPS]

...and not just GURPS selective cut and pasting...

in fact many of GURPS selective cut and pasting leave out the most important parts of an article...

GURPS just posts the part that feeds his propagandist ends...

always read at the least the next paragraph GURPS ignores.

Hey Sugar Tits ....
I generally ONLY post the 1st 3 paragraphs of a given article ... AND A LINK SO YOU CAN READ THE REST OF THE ARTICLE

you really a paranoid quim ... implying deceit where there is NONE ...
if I did NOT post A LINK to the article YOU could read for yourself, you might have a point

- why don't you take a LONG walk off of a SHORT Pier and clear your paranoid mind - there is no deceit, quit projecting

Had you bothered to read the article, you would haven noted two things:

1. GUPRS title is wrong. Canada is NOT testing UBI...the province of Ontario is.

again ToJAM - IT IS NOT MY TITLE / HEADER - ARTICLE

take up your complaints with :


Written by
Rebecca Fortin


or her editor or the publisher of qz.com

 

[This_person]

Again, you side with a corporation over a citizen.

Which corporation? I am siding with the citizen to have a good school, good water supply, good utilities, good roads, etc. These things make it easier for EVERYONE (themselves, larger corporations, etc.) to establish and build business. Establishing and building business lowers crime, increases civic responsibilities of the population in general, etc.

Do you believe it is incumbent upon a government to ensure each and every citizen eats, dresses well, lives in a nice house, drives a nice car, has the latest iPhone, goes to the movies at least once a month, has a comfy retirement, etc.? Or, is that the individual's responsibility? Maybe the answer to those last two questions will solidify where our basic difference is in opinion.

 

[This_person]

Their ability to now pay the welder they have even less because there is excess supply of welders. Created by the gummint.

It's disheartening to have to explain the easy stuff.

And, this is where the people's desires, industry's desires, and foresight come into play. Today, I would NOT go into a class to become a buggy-whip manufacturer - what would be the point? But, I definitely would go into a class to be a welder or a carpenter, because these skills are lacking. I would enter a class to be a nuclear plant operator in Calvert County, but probably not in West Virginia where there are no nuclear plants. I would rather go to an agri-business class in Iowa than NYC.

We, the people, can control this.

 

[Gilligan]

.... just posts the part that feeds his propagandist ends....

You and irony....just inseparable, apparently.

 

[Gilligan]

take up your complaints with :


Written by
Rebecca Fortin


or her editor or the publisher of qz.com

TJ never has been the sharpest knife in the drawer, so....

 

[Larry Gude]

TJ never has been the sharpest knife in the drawer, so....

Well, maybe she's not a knife? Maybe she's a spoon?

 

[SamSpade]

You know, every time I read about Basic Income, I think it sounds like a great idea.
Every time I think a bit longer on the idea, I realize it's a colossally stupid idea, but I am curious to see how it works out where it is tried.

The idea that everyone has a safety net no matter how dire circumstances are is a great comfort - but human nature is that the safety net turns into a hammock.
As long as there exists a comfortable safety net, there WILL be people willing to adjust their living situation so they don't have to work at all.

 

[Larry Gude]

Just like the big push for everybody to get a college degree.

Yup.

So, the schools win because we make money easy to get. The banks win because they get to sell money backed by we, the people. The companies get to bring in cheap, qualified people from over seas because the schools and banks have created an excess supply of psych majors. And everyone without college can either hire immigrants or be displaced by them because all the psych majors think we should have no borders.

 

[Gilligan]

Well, maybe she's not a knife? Maybe she's a spoon?

A spork?

 

[Monello]

The idea that everyone has a safety net no matter how dire circumstances are is a great comfort - but human nature is that the safety net turns into a hammock.

 

[Wishbone]

The hammock needs to come with a side table, mini-fridge and portable TV.

 

[stgislander]

You know, every time I read about Basic Income, I think it sounds like a great idea.
Every time I think a bit longer on the idea, I realize it's a colossally stupid idea, but I am curious to see how it works out where it is tried.

I agree with that. Let's see how Finland or Ontario make out before we jump on the band wagon.

 

[Clem72]

What did those folks do before big government?

One example of a frontier entrepreneur would be a person that owns rifle could feed their family and purchase supplies with skins/meat/etc. But under big government they can only hunt certain things in certain places at predetermined times and not in amounts sufficient to feed their family or make any money. Maybe this is better for sustainment of the environment (can't have 300 million hunters), maybe not. But it is definitely an area where the government limited a persons ability to provide for themselves and their families.

Same could be said for prospectors. Sorry, this 300 million acre stretch of inhospitable land in California/Arizona/New Mexico is part of a nature preserve and you aren't allowed to mine for valuable minerals or cut down trees for lumber (although if you float us a few million dollars in donations we might make an exception for you to drill for oil). Again, there might be a preservation motive, but it is still the government limiting the citizens.

Multiply this by 100s of similar jobs and you get a class of people that could look after themselves if only they were allowed. Hell, might as well add grifters, charlatans, snake oil salesman, and larcenist, and burglars to the list.

 

[Larry Gude]

You know, every time I read about Basic Income, I think it sounds like a great idea.
Every time I think a bit longer on the idea, I realize it's a colossally stupid idea, but I am curious to see how it works out where it is tried.

The idea that everyone has a safety net no matter how dire circumstances are is a great comfort - but human nature is that the safety net turns into a hammock.
As long as there exists a comfortable safety net, there WILL be people willing to adjust their living situation so they don't have to work at all.

It's GOING to be a hammock of some sorts or others. That's the entire point; how to deal with WAY more workers than are needed?