Window Licking Judge

This_person

Well-Known Member
Here's the reasoning this judge used in her ruling:

1). Twitter (the space) is considered a public forum. The tweets are Trump's free speech, not a "designated public forum". However, the replies to those tweets is a public forum meaning replies can be seen by other members of the public. The ruling also made it clear that the public has no right to speak to the President and force him to listen/read. As mentioned earlier, Trump is free to use the Mute feature on Twitter to ignore who he wishes. He, instead, blocked people from the public forum.

2). Blocked users were free to read Trump's comments and even comment, but to do so they'd have to create a new account or other ways but the court found that this was an additional burden compared to non-blocked users. It may seem fairly insignificant, but the 1A protects against "de minimis" harms.

3). Trump, even though he created his account years before running, still operates the account in his official capacity as President and his tweets are considered offical records to be preserved under the Presidential Records Act. He's used Twitter during times he's appointed officers (like cabinet secretaries), he's removed officers, and foreign policy-related conduct. All functions of the President. In essense, while the account is listed as his personal account, he's used it as a presidential account and used it to "take actions that can only be taken by the President as President".

Also, and maybe more importantly, Trump had White House Social Media Director and Assistant to the President Daniel Scavino cloesly involved in his "personal" Twitter account.


I think each of those reasonings have some level of plausibility. However, previous rulings (Van Orden v. Perry) have pointed to the President being able to speak from his position and his words not necessarily being those of the govt.

Most people recognize that Trump going out and making his "ra-ra" speaches are him as a person and not necessarily the President and the case about falls under the Establishment Clause of the 1A that essentially means that while the govt. is prohibited from endorsing a religion, governmental officials can express their religious views as individuals. Using that same case and Establishment Clause scenarios, I think it'll be hard for Trump to argue he can use governmental officials/staff to manage his personal Twitter account that is supposedly expressing his personal opinion/speech.


On the flip side, it's clear Trump's personal account is personal. He advocated for peopel to vote for certain politicians, complained about fake news, witch hunts, John Kerry, correspondents' dinner, and a number of other things that are obviously connected to him personally. This case was brought on by a group that only complained about being blocked by Trump's persdonal page, but not offical pages such as @POTUS, @PressSec, or @WhiteHouse, but this judge ruled that because he used WH staff, that it's no longer personal.

Now, to a point brought up by you and others, your right to free speech doesn't force anyone to listen to you. In 1984, SCOTUS ruled (in Minnesota BD. for Community Colleges v. Knight) that a "person's right to speak is not infringed when government simply ignores that person while listening to others." Your example of a heckler is perfect here.

Just as Trump has the ability to use the Mute function, the DoJ appeal will likely point to the fact that people can log out of twitter to see Trump's tweets or use incognito mode. This would be an argument for a "de minimis" harm.

It'll be appealed, but the decision will affect both sides of the aisle because both Democratic and Republican politicians across the country have blocked people. The judge in this case did not issue and injunction (that would force Trump to unblocked those people), only saying:


This only means that, should Trump choose to appeal (seems likely) Trump can't/doesn't have to ask for a stay pending the appeal.

So, if you exchange "Twitter" with "the hall where the politician is speaking", you come to the same conclusion: If a politician is giving a speech now and is heckled, this judgment implies that it is a violation of the heckler's constitutional rights if the politician has the heckler removed.
 

Lurk

Happy Creepy Ass Cracka
I write a post on multiple issues and you want to gripe about the definition of a public forum as if the damned judge in this case has no idea and just felt like throwing the terms around in her ruling.

The phrase you're looking for is blindly obstinate.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Which is an open, public forum.

Being private or limiting characters doesn't make any less of a public forum.

so is facebook, that doesn't stop them from controlling what gets posted [not that, that is the argument here]


IMHO Donald Trump 'owns' controls HIS Twitter Page and He can block anybody he damn we please

these mewling gashes can take a hike
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Which is an open, public forum.

Being private or limiting characters doesn't make any less of a public forum.

You really spend a lot of time contorting yourself in every direction but libertarianism. You defend the right for someone to go on a person's 'private' account and spew all sorts of foul bilge, while rejecting my right to make the decision to block that person from doing so. You forget that just as equally a person has a right to say things, people also have the right not want to see it or listen to it. While I can't control what a person says on the streets or any other public place, I can (or should be able to) control what is posted on any of my social media accounts.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
You really spend a lot of time contorting yourself in every direction but libertarianism. You defend the right for someone to go on a person's 'private' account and spew all sorts of foul bilge, while rejecting my right to make the decision to block that person from doing so. You forget that just as equally a person has a right to say things, people also have the right not want to see it or listen to it. While I can't control what a person says on the streets or any other public place, I can (or should be able to) control what is posted on any of my social media accounts.

I'm speaking from a legal standpoint based on the judge's ruling and definitions of what a public forum is. Nothing I've offered was my opinion (no one asked it).
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I'm speaking from a legal standpoint based on the judge's ruling and definitions of what a public forum is. Nothing I've offered was my opinion (no one asked it).

Most of us offer our opinion without needing to be specifically asked. :shrug:

With respect to the judge's ruling and definitions, I still see no legal standing to stop the person from posting on that particular website. It's not as if Trump blocks people from Twitter, simply from his account. I can understand the point of his personal account being considered equal to a public account based on his position as president and the fact that he tweets position-related content. But, he's not required to listen to people's positions on his positions and neither he nor the government are required to provide a public forum for citizens to provide their opinions. He is not even coming close to something akin to a law restricting someone's right of free speech. Even the Notorius RBG would find against this ruling, I imagine.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Most of us offer our opinion without needing to be specifically asked. :shrug:

With respect to the judge's ruling and definitions, I still see no legal standing to stop the person from posting on that particular website. It's not as if Trump blocks people from Twitter, simply from his account. I can understand the point of his personal account being considered equal to a public account based on his position as president and the fact that he tweets position-related content. But, he's not required to listen to people's positions on his positions and neither he nor the government are required to provide a public forum for citizens to provide their opinions. He is not even coming close to something akin to a law restricting someone's right of free speech. Even the Notorius RBG would find against this ruling, I imagine.

Sure, but thus far the questions have been about a public forum. My opinions don't change the fact that the ruling was partially based on that, nor do my opinions change what a public forum as it relates to the 1A. I offered my opinion(s) on the matter and so far, the topic has been what a public forum is and why linked case law and definitions of what a public forum is (and different types) are all wrong. At least one person (see above) is more worried about making a dig than A). Reading, B). Caring about anyone else's opinon.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
I often care about a lot of other people's opinions.

Though there are some opinions that I care nothing about...because that's all they are worth.

:coffee:
 
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Toxick

Splat
What if he simply shuts down his account? Then what?....



His approval rating will go up?
The news will have to actually report on the news?
My personal CQ* will drop significantly.
Trump's approval rating will skyrocket.
North Korea will bloom into a Capitalistic Utopia faster than you can say "Yes, I please super-size my KPOP"
Putin will have no idea WTF is happening west of 20°E
Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel will literally have no opening monologues any more.
Did I mention that Trump's overall approval rating would increase dramatically.
Every member of the Iranian government will drop ####ing dead.
Twitter stock will lose 50% value.













*cringe quotient
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
His approval rating will go up?
The news will have to actually report on the news?
My personal CQ* will drop significantly.
Trump's approval rating will skyrocket.
North Korea will bloom into a Capitalistic Utopia faster than you can say "Yes, I please super-size my KPOP"
Putin will have no idea WTF is happening west of 20°E
Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel will literally have no opening monologues any more.
Did I mention that Trump's overall approval rating would increase dramatically.
Every member of the Iranian government will drop ####ing dead.
Twitter stock will lose 50% value.













*cringe quotient

So....nothing but winning?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Sure, but thus far the questions have been about a public forum. My opinions don't change the fact that the ruling was partially based on that, nor do my opinions change what a public forum as it relates to the 1A. I offered my opinion(s) on the matter and so far, the topic has been what a public forum is and why linked case law and definitions of what a public forum is (and different types) are all wrong. At least one person (see above) is more worried about making a dig than A). Reading, B). Caring about anyone else's opinon.

I just don't see Twitter as any different from any other speech. Based on this ruling, is it now unconstitutional to remove a person heckling a politician's speech? It would seem so. Is it now unconstitutional to NOT provide a forum of some kind for anyone who wishes to respond - even if it is limited to after the speech? It would seem it is now some kind of constitutional requirement to provide public access to the politician's speaking venue to respond to his speeches, according to this ruling.

I can't see anything that would be upheld on this ruling.
 
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