Christianity and Politics

Kain99 · Sep 30, 2002

George Bush has been very open and honest regarding his Christian Beliefs during his term in office. This past year we have faced courts who have tried to remove "Under God" from our pledge of Alligance.

There are politicians running for local office who proclaim their Christian foundation.

How do you feel about the mix? Christianity and Politics. Do the two mix? Do we want them to? Considering the current state of affairs, do we need them to?

vraiblonde · Sep 30, 2002

I get very suspicious when politicians (or anyone, for that matter) use God as a marketing tool. Typically the ones who proclaim their devotion the loudest are the biggest liars and thieves.

I don't believe in God nor am I offended by religious people. In this country, extremists don't get elected to that high of an office so I'm not worried about getting Jarry Fallwell OR Madelyn Murray O'Hair.

Tonio · Sep 30, 2002

In another thread, I wrote that politics doesn't need the "good versus evil" mentality. Intelligent people can have honest differences of opinion on any issue. Part of good politics (no, that's not necessarily an oxymoron) is working out compromises and solutions that most people can live with.

Now, many activists are so convinced of their own rightness that they often seem like they're on a holy mission. But groups like the Moral Majority and the American Family Association state that explicitly. They insist that they are working on God's behalf, and that anyone who disagrees with them is fighting God. This may sound like exaggeration, but I believe that attitude is incompatible with democracy.

Kizzy · Sep 30, 2002

I get very suspicious when politicians (or anyone, for that matter) use God as a marketing tool. Typically the ones who proclaim their devotion the loudest are the biggest liars and thieves.

That is very true. I work with somebody who does that.

:really:

Christy · Sep 30, 2002

I've noticed it's only a problem when the candidate is Christian.

Take Joe Lieberman for instance. The media went gaga over him being a devout Jew.

They should not be mixed. By doing so you are injecting your beliefs into your profession. Your spirituality is something you practice on your own time.

I have to disagree with you on this one Cari (shocker :wink:

) Spirituality of any sort goes hand in hand with how we all view the world, whether it be bad or good. I know I bring my beliefs into my profession. If I didn't there'd be a lot of gov't employees walking around with black eyes! :wink:

Christy · Sep 30, 2002

To clarify my previous statement a little better, bringing faith into every walk of life is different than FORCING it upon folks. I don't see where GW has forced it upon anyone, merely been upfront about what he believes. When Joseph Lieberman brought his faith into politics everyone swooned, and never once did anyone question if it was apropriate, it was viewed as "inspiring".

I don't give a rats behind what religion my elected officials are, and I'd prefer they be upfront about it.

On the other hand, I can see where everyone is coming from with politicians and religion. More often than not, politicians do use "I'm just a down to Earth Christian" (just like the rest of you idiot peons, so you know you want to vote for me.) Sadly, there are MANY idiots who buy it and cast that vote.

vraiblonde · Sep 30, 2002

I don't know, Cari - I'm against fetal stem cell research and it has nothing to do with religion. So just because he happened to agree with the church doesn't mean he made his decision based on his religious views.

Christy · Sep 30, 2002

I don't think stem cell research is a religious issue, it's a moral issue, Athiest or Christian, there is something morally wrong and down right morbid when we lower ourselves to using chopped up baby bits to extend our own lives.

Boy do I see this thread straying from it's intended purpose! :twitch:

Sorry! Don't beat me! :whip:

Kain99 · Sep 30, 2002

Originally posted by cariblue

I think Bush did inject his personal religious belief when he went with the "church" on stem cell research. His decision, as I understand it, was based on religious belief.

Hey Cari, you know how much I Love you, but our president continually refrences his faith!

"Faith changes lives. I know, because faith has changed mine.” “I could not be President if I did not believe in a divine plan that
supersedes all human plans. Politics is a fickle business. Polls change. Today’s friend is tomorrow’s adversary. People lavish
praise and attention. Many times it is genuine; sometimes it is not. Yet I build my life on a foundation that will not shift. My faith
frees me. Frees me to put the problem of the moment in proper perspective. Frees me to make decisions that others might not like. Frees me to try to do the right thing, even though it may not poll well...” George W. Bush April 2002

Not all of us share similar belief systems - Some might even look to the moon for answers! My question is rooted in the fundemental...

Is a statement of faith a signal to run screaming into the hills?

Forget the Politically correct for a minute and be honest. Do you feel safer with a person of faith in charge?

I already know all of the canned politically correct answers - I want to know from your gut, if Faith sways the balance?

Maybe I am the only one who remembers the morning of Sept 11th. Maybe I am the one who should see a shrink... I personally feel in the depths of my soul that our only chance is with candidates who look to a higher power.

For those who exist without this Light.... God Bless You!

Tonio · Oct 1, 2002

I don't get worked up over Bush or Lieberman talking about their personal faiths. They don't seem to be pushing their beliefs on anybody. True, they have said that public service is influenced by their belief in God. But how does that "respect an establishment of religion?" People who would worry about that have too much to worry about.

There's a big difference between that and what people like Falwell and Robertson and Wildmon advocate. These three are pushing the idea that being a Christian and being an American are one and the same thing. Pretty scary thought. At the time America was being settled, England was fighting civil wars over the idea that all citizens of the realm should worship one way.

Tonio · Oct 1, 2002

Also, I'm not very religious and I don't like the use of fetal tissue in stem cell research either. I don't necessarily believe that the possibility of curing disease would influence women to have abortions. For me, it's just a matter of principle. That's why I love the idea of donating umbilical cord blood for stem cell research. We did this for our first child and we plan to do it for our second.

Tonio · Oct 1, 2002

BchBns, you're right about some of the commandments. But read through the first few again. They apply to specific religious doctrine, and that's exactly why the courts have ruled that the commandments shouldn't be posted in classrooms. Here they are:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

At the risk of sounding like a feminist, the "coveting" commandment seems to assume that wives are husbands' property. It's one thing to equate wives with servants, but quite another to equate them with beasts of burden.

Kain99 · Oct 1, 2002

Originally posted by Tonio
BchBns, you're right about some of the commandments. But read through the first few again. They apply to specific religious doctrine

Hmmm... I'm not sure that I can agree with your philosophy. Religious doctorine would be rules created by the church -not commandments from God.
Religious Doctorine applies to rules dreamt up by Religions to suit their cause ie. "Cover your heads when entering the church" , "Don't take communion if you didn't make it to confession" etc...

Regardless, their is a vast diffrence between political leaders with faith and political leaders who use their faith to condem and admonish!

Tonio · Oct 1, 2002

Originally posted by Kain99
Hmmm... I'm not sure that I can agree with your philosophy. Religious doctorine would be rules created by the church -not commandments from God.
Religious Doctorine applies to rules dreamt up by Religions to suit their cause ie. "Cover your heads when entering the church" , "Don't take communion if you didn't make it to confession" etc...

Maybe "doctrine" is the wrong word. The commandments I cited do apply specifically to religious beliefs (belief in one supreme being) and religious practice (a Sabbath day). A Buddhist or Hindu or a Shinto could not follow these particular commandments and still remain true to his or her religion.

My point is that most religions claim that their rules, like the ones you cited, were dictated by a supreme being or beings. I believe in God myself, and I don't find it credible that God would really care if people ate meat on Fridays.

Hessian · Oct 1, 2002

A real, honest faith is a moral compass that helps to prioritize, guide, provide wisdom, unity, and assurance...all the things that Bill Clinton lacked
why?
His faith was an act, a joke, a mockery.

What is truth to one who believes that whatever they do is fine?

What guides their measure of right & wrong? Polls? What they feel like?

If you follow the faith of secular humanism, the ultimate right & wrong is whatever you say...do what's good for you.

AND YOU WANT THESE PEOPLE TO BE YOUR LEADERS?
They become users, shallow, puppets to people who buy favors from them.(another cup of tea Mr Chang?)

Religion is crucial to leadership...and not just any religion...
Christianity

unless you would rather live under Genghis Khan, Atilla the Hun, or Moctezuma II.

And don't bother saying that there were Christian Psychos ruling too...because their judgement comes swift & hard if they misuse their faith.(Name me a "Christian" Tyrant who ruled for decades....hmm? Chances are, they used Christianity as a prop and distorted it)
There is nothing to fear from a devout Christian ruler.

Justice won't ever come from whims and convenience, it will come from established law, firm & fair.

let it rip Tonio........

STMLADY · Oct 18, 2002

Faith and Politics

For me, I do not vote for someone who says he attends church regularly or is a member of this church or whatever...A person whose character is seen by what he does is how you should vote, I was told by someone very close to me that if I wanted to run for public office I need to start attending a church. It really made me feel that there was something wrong with me. I feel that I am a good person, and just because I don't attend church should not be a strike against me.

I believe in God, I believe that we are all here for a reason and when it is our time to go, it is our time to go. What I do not belive in is that you have to go to church regularly to be called a christian. Hogwash..... how many times did Jesus teach in a church... Your faith is strengthed by what you do not where you go or for that matter how many times you go.

2ndAmendment · Oct 18, 2002

Look at the history of the founding of this nation. The Founding Fathers had about two hours of prayer every day before the debates and deliberations during the framing of the Declaration of Independence.

This is not an exact quote, but Benjamin Franklin said something to the effect that this great nation would only survive if men of true faith were at it's head. The operative word in this day is "true."

A person that truly believes that he/she answers to a higher authority than any on earth and will be held accountable for any actions will conduct himself/herself accordingly. Now wouldn't be refreshing to have holders of political office really know that they are not in charge; that they have to answer to us and to God.

As for me, I'm glad to be forgiven!

alex · Oct 22, 2002

I won't vote for any candidate or person that wraps themselves in the flag or in their religion.

You may say that your faith helped you in certain ways and that is fine, but to constantly bring it into your campagin makes the candidate suspect. They come across as (to me at least) as saying they are better than you because they are more reglious or more patriotic.

Patriotism and faith should be things you do, a way you live. They should be personal and private.

Kain99 · Oct 22, 2002

Curious Alex... What did Benjamin Franklin say about Christianity and Politics? :bubble:

Hessian · Oct 22, 2002

May I bud in?
June 28th 1787, Ben addressing the Constitutional Convention:

"In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the divine protection.-Our prayers , Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending providence in our favor.
To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?
I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this proof-that God Governs in the affairs of men....
...We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel....
...I therefore beg leave to move- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business...

This was recorded in James Madison's notes.

So, do we scold old Ben for his obvious pronouncement of personal faith and chastise the founders for this overt form of worship?...How dare they pray earnestly before writing that "Godless" document-the Constitution!!

Sorry if this excerpt sucked the wind out of someone's anti-religion in politics view.

You may now continue with building the tower of Babel.

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