A New Dean Angle

[Bruzilla]

I just read a piece by Bill Safire where he offered up a new slant on Dean's activities that I find very interesting. He said that one thing that Dean might do if he loses the nomination is take his followers and form a new third party. Anyone think there's a chance that might happen? So far all of the Republican-based and Independent-based third party efforts have fallen flat, so I wonder if there are enough Dean supporters to really flesh out a party and get 20% or so of the vote? Maybe the far-left will succeed where all others have failed.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm sorry - I refuse to believe there are that many rage-filled liberals in this country.

The platform Dean is running on is rage and hatred. Ever watch one of his speeches? His biggest applause comes when he bashes Bush and the kids can start hissing and booing. I don't think you can revolve a whole political party around "We Hate Bush".

 

[Larry Gude]

How about...

...a 4th Party.

Perots crew, Buchanan, Ventura, are all somewhat protectionist to varying degrees.

Dean is pro free trade per his record.

 

[dems4me]

No, I think if Dean's branches off into a third-party he'll have a reality check. Alot of libs (and I know of many) are voting and backing Dean because he appears the most likely Dem to win the primaries. They want a Democrat in the White House so they are just jumping on Deans coattails. If he does this then the Dems will run to another popular Dem to support and back. One thing I can say for Dean -- he is relentless no matter how far he pushes the envelope - he just keeps pushing. He definately does not give up on something or know when to give up for that matter. I can't see him creating a 3rd party. He has it set in his mind that he will take over and face Bush in the 2004 election and then be in the White House.

 

[Bruzilla]

You have to admit that it sure would be interesting to watch. Suppose Dean says to heck with it... we can't beat Bush... so let's set up an extreme-Left party and see what we can do with it. If he gets 20-25 percent of the vote, that would be enough for his party to really challenge the Democratic party, and Hillary in particular, in 2008. If Democrats really are all that upset with the other candidates and the direction the party is moving in, he could pull it off. If it's just a case of Dean believing his own press, it would sure be a slap across the face.

Also, this is all assuming that Hillary wins in 2006, which is not a given at this point.

 

[vraiblonde]

Leftists are so far out of the mainstream, according to every poll I've ever seen, that it would surprise me if they could even get a candidate on a ballot. Look at the Green party and the Reform guys, not to mention the Libertarians. They can't get elected dog catcher.

 

[dems4me]

Far left people would not support Dean and the majority of his campaign team are not far left. Dean is praticaly a republican to most of the people on the far left. But we need Republican votes and if any of them are undecided they are more apt to lean for Dean then some of the other candidates that really are hard core left. Candidates that weren't raised in Rockefeller center NewYork with very wealthy parents. In Dean's own DVD (if inspired you can purchase it from deanmart.com, anyways his DVD states how rich and loaded he was growing up. He had more than one silver spoon in his mouth when he was born. I say how can you really understand what people in poverty and middle class go through unless you've been there. But again, I'm Democrat and if anyone is going to win the primary it'll be him.

 

[SurfaceTension]

Originally posted by dems4me
One thing I can say for Dean -- he is relentless no matter how far he pushes the envelope - he just keeps pushing. He definately does not give up on something or know when to give up for that matter

I can't see him creating a 3rd party.

 

[Bruzilla]

I hate to tell you this, but I guess it's something only an outsider can tell you... Dean is very, very, far to the left. His only right-leaning stick is he's not willing to support gun bans. He supports most gun laws, just not bans... which doesn't quite make him a gun rights supporter.

Something we've discussed several times on this forum is how people always think that their views, and the views that they agree with, are the views that most people agree with. That's why folks like Walter Cronkite, Ted Turner, and Geraldine Ferraro (to name just a few) can go before a camera and claim that they are Moderates and that their views are mainstream. The only real moderate candidate in the Democratic race right now is Lieberman.

Why does a person have to have been poor in order to understand the needs of the poor? Does a doctor need to have cancer before he can treat someone else for the disease? Should a cop have been a criminal before they can fight crime? Besides, experience with being poor is a knife that cuts both ways as a former poor person can say "I know what it's like and I wish someone would have helped me out like I'm helping others", or they can have the view of "I was poor and I got myself out of poverty. If I can do it on my own then the rest of these deadbeats should get off their a$$es and do it too."

What's really important, to me anyway, is does the candidate have the guts to do what needs to be done. What I've really liked about Bush is that he's willing to suffer the slings and arrows of the media, the protest groups, the political hacks, etc., in order to do what he believes in. He doesn't waste too much time on wishful thinking and looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. He's a black & white guy, and I like that. I like the notions of pre-emptive strikes, cancelling treaties that everyone knows are unfair to America, and looking out for the folks who pay the bills in this country.

 

[Otter]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
.... What I've really liked about Bush is that he's willing to suffer the slings and arrows of the media, the protest groups, the political hacks, etc., in order to do what he believes in. He doesn't waste too much time on wishful thinking and looking at the world through rose-colored glasses. He's a black & white guy, and I like that. I like the notions of pre-emptive strikes, cancelling treaties that everyone knows are unfair to America, and looking out for the folks who pay the bills in this country.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by Bruzilla
The only real moderate candidate in the Democratic race right now is Lieberman.

How is Lieberman more moderate than the others? I haven't read up on many of the Democrats running this time. The only thing I know about Lieberman is that in 2000, he wasn't afraid to criticize the entertainment industry.

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
I'm sorry - I refuse to believe there are that many rage-filled liberals in this country.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's another kind. I remember 'liberal' when I first started using the word meant "generous, open-minded, compassionate, enlightened". But all I see nowadays is hatred, venom, crassness, surliness and downright mean-spiritedness.

You know - the same thing they used to complain about conservatives.

Originally posted by vraiblonde
I don't think you can revolve a whole political party around "We Hate Bush".

Well, it's worked wonders over the past 3 years for them.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Toxick
Well, it's worked wonders over the past 3 years for them.

That's why you'd think they'd be smart enough to figure it out. They lost the White House, lost the Senate, lost the House, lost several Governorships - what's it gonna take to make them realize that they're too far left? Yet what do they do? They decide they're not far enough to the left.

 

[vraiblonde]

Bru, the other thing that really impresses me about Bush is that you never EVER hear him slamming the Democrats. He's held true to his pledge of being a "uniter, not a divider". The Dems are calling him Hitler and saying he's the "enemy", yet he never gives it back to them or even mentions it. He just moves forward with what he thinks is right.

 

[Bruzilla]

That's a good point Vrai. I've never noticed that but you're right.

Lieberman is big on religion, big on the war, and big on business... all right-wing stuff. He's also pro-abortion and supports most other Dem beliefs. So taken in total, I would consider him a moderate. This is the view of a pro-abortion, anti-gun control, anti-religion, pro-big business, pro-gay civil unions kinda guy.

 

[Larry Gude]

Bruz...

...ain't that awesome? W just goes about his business and allows his opponents to choose the terms of their opposition.

I'd suggest that pro biz, pro religion and 'pro' war are not right wing per se. I suggest that those are solid, middle of the road positions in this country. Also, with partial birth restrictions in place, most people prefer a woman make the choice about her spawn, just decide sooner rather than later.

Dean has tapped into a small well of anger that is very intense but, when they explain it, comes off as immature, arrogant and silly.

Doesn't go far it seems.

 

[Penn]

One of the more inane statements Howard Dean has uddered(oops! bad bovine slip), was that during an interview in Iowa, he was asked who his favorite living military hero was.

Howard Dean replied: His brother(Chris, I think).

It turns out his brother is dead, his remains found last month in Laos, I believe. He went over there during the Vietnam War, to protest it.

It also appears he, the brother, was never in the military!

How can anyone make a bald-faced-lying statement like that, and still have ambitions to be our president?

His press secretary replied to further questions about this, and simply replied "it was old news".

Oh yeah! We NEED this guy and his cronies in the Oval Office!

Does this ring any bells? Something about never inhaling?

 

[Tonio]

Re: Bruz...

Originally posted by Larry Gude
Dean has tapped into a small well of anger that is very intense but, when they explain it, comes off as immature, arrogant and silly.

Reminds me of the late '90s, when many on the right were almost rabid in their hatred of the Clintons. Sure, the Clinton-haters and the Bush-haters have a valid point or two to make. But I can't stand to listen to them, because they're so irrational in their emotionality. (Doesn't that sound like Spock?)

 

[ceo_pte]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Bru, the other thing that really impresses me about Bush is that you never EVER hear him slamming the Democrats. He's held true to his pledge of being a "uniter, not a divider". The Dems are calling him Hitler and saying he's the "enemy", yet he never gives it back to them or even mentions it. He just moves forward with what he thinks is right.

He's a man Vrai... he doensn't need to resort to silly put-downs to make himself look better.

I would like to meet Dean and in his face, seriously. He opens his mouth and garbage comes out. I think that I will start calling him 'Mini Gore.'

 

[Bruzilla]

Sorry to disagree with you Larry, but the pro-biz, pro-religion, and pro-war crowds have always been on the right. When I would teach a political science class, my first question was always "Who should government care more about taking care of: the working people or big business?" That told me who was on the left and who was on the right. It would always get confirmed later on by other means, but that was all I needed to know. Lefties always went with the working people and Righties always said big business.

On a side note, it was always fun to watch the lefties try to take care of the working man while sticking it to big business... they would try to make it work until they got frustrated and quit, but they rarely ever changed their outlook on life.