Abortion and shooting store clerks...

[Merlin99]

Comparing a car to humanity. Wow. Like Hitler comparing Jews to environmental-friendly power generating fuel.

Your statement was sure retarded, in conjunction with your previous post of anyone who said yes to the poll. Or maybe just "exceptional". I guess it just depends on how your PC emotionalism stance is on semantics.

I'm did not attack you for anything, and am not attacking now. Toughen up your feelings a bit. "Termination by any attacker" is not the topic here. The topic is - is it the same as to compare an abortion to an unborn fetus being killed by a criminal act?

I say yes. You can play with words as much as you want, but comparing destruction of stolen steel to human fetuses being destroyed by whatever method is a very poor analogy. Really, no comparison at all.

This topic will never end in this world. It will be sorted out in pre-eternity, and individuals will be held accountable for their personal actions, whether one believes it now or not. It is that moral.

How do you not take "Your statement was sure retarded" personally?. there are people here who take just the use of the word "retarded" personally.

 

[b23hqb]

How do you not take "Your statement was sure retarded" personally?. there are people here who take just the use of the word "retarded" personally.

Their issue, personally.

I said that simply because in her (Vrai) first post on ths topic she called anyone that believed that the two were the same (the topic of the post - abortion vs killing of a fetus in the act of committing a crime) were "retarded". .

Not just retarded, but "####ing retarded people."

Ask the web mommy - not me. Very classy, for sure.

Post #2 - "No, it is not the same and only ####ing retarded people think it is."

And as far as taking the meaning of the word "retarded" personal, so be it. It does not mean "exceptional". It is what it is.

Just like "gay" does mean homosexual.

All in the mind of the beholder.

Retarded - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

: slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress

You can sugarcoat it anyway you want. Words mean things. Realistic. Truth. Not demeaning. Just definition.

 

[Toxick]

They're exactly the same, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a retard.

 

[Railroad]

...I thought this was a simple one but, every time I think that...

So, is a woman choosing to have an abortion the same as some thug (white or black or brown, this isn't about race) robbing a store and deciding to kill the cashier because it's convenient the same thing?

In both cases, a person dies. In one, an unborn infant. In the other a store clerk. Is is the same?

I think this poll question oversimplifies things and doesn't account for the countless dynamics which lead to and result from killing a fetus. But to make a poll which does a better job of addressing the issue would require quite a few possible choices. As has been said, this argument can go on forever and certainly not be resolved in this lifetime. In short, my opinion is that choosing whether or not to have an abortion is not always simply deciding between convenience and difficulty. I know of at least one woman who beat herself up mentally for years as a result of having an abortion, even though the circumstances surrounding her decision certainly seemed to support it. I don't think it's my place to judge; instead, if consulted, I can offer my advice. The rest is up to the woman and God.

One other thing: it's reasonable to assume that not a lot of thought goes into killing the store clerk, simply because of the time factor involved in committing the crime. Not the case (most of the time), when considering killing a fetus by abortion.

 

[Larry Gude]

I know of at least one woman who beat herself up mentally for years as a result of having an abortion, .

No doubt. But, is that reason to forbid her from the CHOICE?

Freedom and liberty goes hand in hand with responsibility and consequences. The state forbidding abortion reduces freedom and liberty while also reducing the responsibilities and consequences of and to the citizen.

 

[Railroad]

No doubt. But, is that reason to forbid her from the CHOICE?

Freedom and liberty goes hand in hand with responsibility and consequences. The state forbidding abortion reduces freedom and liberty while also reducing the responsibilities and consequences of and to the citizen.

IMHO the State has no place in personal choices.

 

[Larry Gude]

IMHO the State has no place in personal choices.

The state has a role but, it is a regulatory role. Also, I have no problem with the state saying 'here are the facts...' both the pros and cons of a given issue. I TOTALLY get the argument that the unborn have rights, too, and, in my view, if I murder some pregnant woman, I've killed two people but, if she chooses to have an abortion, that changes it, entirely.

I don't expect to change anyone's view on abortion itself. That's not my point and I do think it barbaric. However, as a matter of law, as to the use of the power of the state in a free society, the woman's individual autonomy trumps that infants rights until it is born. It has to. Anything else and we're, through the state, intruding on individual liberty in a way that obviates freedom and liberty.

Good lord. If we're going to say "You MUST carry that child to birth" it is far less of a big deal to say 'Thou shalt purchase health insurance' or 'no smoking for you' or 'this soda is large enough, that's all you may have'.

I was stunned the last two months to find that the majority of my motorcycle riding brethren, on another site, support MANDATORY helmet laws and now, I find in this poll, so far, a majority, on a site noted for being right wing, limited government, pro constitution et al, a majority are for state control over a woman's body.

It certainly makes our national politics a lot more understandable; we, the people, DO want intrusive government and all we're really arguing over is whose oxen get gored.

 

[Railroad]

It certainly makes our national politics a lot more understandable; we, the people, DO want intrusive government and all we're really arguing over is whose oxen get gored.

Yeah. Adds fuel to my desire to get the heck out of the mainstream.

 

[vraiblonde]

They're exactly the same, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a retard.

See, you can get away with that statement because the mental cases and idiots all agree with it, and therefore won't flame your ass.

 

[Toxick]

See, you can get away with that statement because the mental cases and idiots all agree with it, and therefore won't flame your ass.

I can also get away with it because I have reluctantly retracted it in the "extreme conservative" thread.



Not happy about it.


Please go read, and enjoy my shame.

 

[b23hqb]

The topic of abortion will never end, that's for sure. But societies that promote and ensure abortion certainly will end.

 

[vraiblonde]

I can also get away with it because I have reluctantly retracted it in the "extreme conservative" thread.



Not happy about it.


Please go read, and enjoy my shame.

I think your shame is probably in participating in a thread titled "Extreme Conservatives" started by GURPS. I have avoided it up to this point but will now go read so I can lick your tears of tasty shame.

 

[Larry Gude]

I can lick your tears of tasty shame.

 

[Larry Gude]

The topic of abortion will never end, that's for sure. But societies that promote and ensure abortion certainly will end.

You do realize, of course, there has been abortions in America as long as there has been an America? And there are women who didn't want children as long as there has been men and women?

Or no?

 

[vraiblonde]

Please go read, and enjoy my shame.

Okay, I read your epiphany (and only that post because some things just cannot be borne).

There is no shame in re-evaluating a long held position. The shame is in holding the hard line on an opinion just because that's how you've always thought and you're too lazy to consider another viewpoint.

What helped form my pro-abortion standpoint was looking at the women who have them, and thinking, "Yeah, I don't like the idea of babies and small children being dependent on you." It was pretty easy after that.

 

[b23hqb]

You do realize, of course, there has been abortions in America as long as there has been an America? And there are women who didn't want children as long as there has been men and women?

Or no?

Oh NO! Say it ain't so! Who could have known?

Come on, LG. Anyone that thinks our country is just hunky dory and going to be around forever is very naive. The US was very stable through the 1960's, even with Madeline Murry O'Hair, the new drug culture, and VN. From the mid-70's on, the fabric that held this nation together has been unraveling at an increasing pace, with the current speed increasing alarmingly. And it is because of us - the people. Those same people - me, you, everybody - that have been causing trouble since God created mankind.

Most of the developed world, if not all, are just sitting back and watching us being destroyed from within. They are doing that because no other nation has the impact we do, one way or the other.

Abortion is a major factor in the moral/immoral psyche, on both sides of the issue.

Any society that eats its own will not be a society for long. We've been eating our own legally now for over 40 years.

 

[Larry Gude]

Oh NO! Say it ain't so! Who could have known?

Come on, LG. Anyone that thinks our country is just hunky dory and going to be around forever is very naive. The US was very stable through the 1960's, even with Madeline Murry O'Hair, the new drug culture, and VN. From the mid-70's on, the fabric that held this nation together has been unraveling at an increasing pace, with the current speed increasing alarmingly. And it is because of us - the people. Those same people - me, you, everybody - that have been causing trouble since God created mankind.

Most of the developed world, if not all, are just sitting back and watching us being destroyed from within. They are doing that because no other nation has the impact we do, one way or the other.

Abortion is a major factor in the moral/immoral psyche, on both sides of the issue.

Any society that eats its own will not be a society for long. We've been eating our own legally now for over 40 years.

So, let me see if I have this right;


Oil is $100 a barrel, crushing the working man, because of Roe.

We lost not one but, two wars because of Roe.

We did TARP, socializing the economy at its core, because of Roe.

We created the TSA, Patriot Act and DHS in response to not letting the FBI do their job...because of Roe.

We did Med Part D, massively expanding entitlements desperate for reigning in...because of Roe.

We stood by and let the flood gates of unchecked immigration flow...because of Roe.



That's my list of what is seriously wrong with our nation. I'm just not getting what this has to do with abortion.

 

[b23hqb]

So, let me see if I have this right;


Oil is $100 a barrel, crushing the working man, because of Roe.

We lost not one but, two wars because of Roe.

We did TARP, socializing the economy at its core, because of Roe.

We created the TSA, Patriot Act and DHS in response to not letting the FBI do their job...because of Roe.

We did Med Part D, massively expanding entitlements desperate for reigning in...because of Roe.

We stood by and let the flood gates of unchecked immigration flow...because of Roe.



That's my list of what is seriously wrong with our nation. I'm just not getting what this has to do with abortion.

As long as you agree to abortion, you won't get the argument against it - that the morals and actions of a country do tie in with all the topics you mentioned. Including R vs W. In all those things you mentioned, we are getting what we asked for and deserve.

R vs W is a part of us that effects the rest of what is happening.

This topic will never be agreed on, but don't diss how this topic, and the mind-set accompanying it, does affect us. Individually and as a whole.

 

[MMM_donuts]

Look Larry, this is how it works. Women wanted to vote, then work outside the home, then wanted birth control so they could who're around with less consequences, then wanted legal abortion so they wouldn't have to plan ahead or take responsibility for their behavior, this single handedly destroyed the traditional family setup which lead to more men being raised by women, women are now taking over traditionally male jobs and environments, all of which has caused a general feminization of America, which means that our country is being run by irrational emotions and no logic. So. We're all doomed.



This isn't my personal theory but what I'm told.

 

[Larry Gude]

As long as you agree to abortion, you won't get the argument against it - that the morals and actions of a country do tie in with all the topics you mentioned. .

Ah, yes, but, I DO get that. I used to think that very thing, that abortion, especially used as contraception was the root of all evil. That the convenience of it, the debasing of human live so, as I saw it, cavalierly, was soul rotting and an evil that kids growing up could only reap cynicism and nihilism from. "Why do I matter if I could have simply been aborted?'

Then, it occurred to me that their was a flip side (recall the seeing things only from our own view thing) and that the flip side is that you, kid were CHOSEN to live, to be loved, cared for and that makes all the difference in the world.

Add to that the control over ones own body part, the impracticality of lining women up and executing them for aborting, liberty, freedom, and you got yourself a position that IS moral, that IS right and IS in keeping with freedom and liberty.