Active shooter at the Columbia Mall in Maryland!

[RPMDAD]

IMHO the best possible situation is intervention immediately after the first shot is fired (or the first punch is thrown, or the first...whatever). People are simply not looking so closely at other people all the time that they can always intervene to stop the act from happening in the first place. For the intervention to happen before more shots are fired and people injured or killed, the response time would have to be very short, i.e., the response would have to come from someone at the scene. The very best response times by Law Enforcement are still delayed by communications and transit time to the scene. At the scene, while the crime is in progress, ninety seconds is a very long time, an eternity in some cases, yet the LEOs do their best and are to be applauded for that. But everyone within earshot of the crime is a potential first responder or a potential additional victim, depending on how they are prepared to influence or stop the crime in progress. Just my humble opinion.

I agree with this 100% RR.

 

[Dakota]

But...what are the odds your average lady in Lane Bryant will be packing heat?

So we can say "if they were only armed" but chances are they wouldn't have been even if it were legal. It's like teachers: if they were allowed to keep a handgun in their desk drawer, how many of them do you think would actually do it?

Note that you never hear of anyone trying to shoot up a Bass Pro or a Cabela's. Because that's not a target-rich environment.

We'll never know. If it was more welcoming in society... I think one of these ladies would have carried.

http://mylifeofcrime.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/tinley-park-victims.jpg

I think what is terribly sad is that it was never solved. I wonder how many times a family member of one of those women see somebody out and about, matching the description and wonder... could it have been him?

Then Senator Barack Obama, who was elected President in November said...


“ I was deeply saddened to learn about the shooting in Tinley Park, and my heart goes out to the victims' families. This kind of violence is unacceptable -- not just in a shopping center where we're supposed to feel safe, but wherever it occurs. And as the facts become clear, I hope the authorities find and prosecute whoever is responsible for this tragedy.[6]



It wasn't even 2 weeks ago Ill. opened up concealed carry.

But one of those women are who you want to carry.... or the old lady you wouldn't expect.

 

[RPMDAD]

GW8345, first let me say i am pro gun, and pro CCW. In this case had i been at the mall, and had ccw, i can guarantee you the odds of me being in a skate store would have been a million to one, i don't skate. I am not sure who the target was one or both of them, but this dude had obviously made his mind up to kill himself after the deed. I agree with RR's post had the dude just started walking around the mall shooting people someone with a ccw could have intervened and ended it.

 

[edinsomd]

If he's willing to die there's no stopping the crime we are discussing. None. All of the idiots trying to justify CCW over this are just as stupid as those wanting to ban all guns over this. This case does absolutely nothing to further advance either argument, and trying to do so just makes you look silly.

OK MMDad, then please explain why EACH and EVERY recent mass shooting has occurred in a gun free zone. Because the killer KNOWS he's the only one there with a weapon. How often do these incidents happen at gun shows or police stations, hmmmm?

Now who looks silly?

 

[Tech]

Oh and Tech... I show my photo ID when voting just to be an ass and because I think all should.

Have no problem to show ID to vote. Here's something, the boy got his driver's permit last year at sixteen, he registered to vote at the same time and on the voter regisration app. there was a spot for his license number. Transfer the pictures to the voter rolls, photo ID not required.

 

[Tech]

OK MMDad, then please explain why EACH and EVERY recent mass shooting has occurred in a gun free zone. Because the killer KNOWS he's the only one there with a weapon. How often do these incidents happen at gun shows or police stations, hmmmm?

Now who looks silly?

Could be that most gathering places are inherently gun free zones and he's heading to a target rich area. The crazy may never take gun free zone into consideration.

 

[czygvtwkr]

OK MMDad, then please explain why EACH and EVERY recent mass shooting has occurred in a gun free zone. Because the killer KNOWS he's the only one there with a weapon. How often do these incidents happen at gun shows or police stations, hmmmm?

Now who looks silly?

I don't think that too many of the people willing to carry out a mass shooting would really care about this. There is a difference between causation and correlation.

Can you think of a place that would have a large number of people that isn't a "gun free zone"?

I think the idea of a gun free zone is stupid, but I think the argument is silly.

 

[justiceforall]

My point is, if Maryland residents were allowed to CCW, someone could have stopped this maniac before he killed two innocent people.

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.

I guess that's why there's no gun violence in Detroit. After all, Michigan is a shall issue state.

 

[vraiblonde]

OK MMDad, then please explain why EACH and EVERY recent mass shooting has occurred in a gun free zone. Because the killer KNOWS he's the only one there with a weapon. How often do these incidents happen at gun shows or police stations, hmmmm?

Now who looks silly?

I will suggest that schools and skate shops would be voluntary gun-free zones, without government regulation saying so. They're a sure thing, laws aside.

Besides, a location being a gun-free zone has never been the reason it was chosen for shooting up. There's always been a specific and personal reason that particular location was chosen. Typically the shooter ends up as a suicide, either by their own hand or by cop, so it doesn't appear that they chose the place because they felt they could escape safely. They knew going in that they wouldn't be coming back out alive.

There is a reason this guy shot up the skater shop and it's not because he knew they'd be unarmed. It will come out that he has a tie to it, or to one of the people he killed.

 

[edinsomd]

I will suggest that schools and skate shops would be voluntary gun-free zones, without government regulation saying so. They're a sure thing, laws aside.

Besides, a location being a gun-free zone has never been the reason it was chosen for shooting up. There's always been a specific and personal reason that particular location was chosen. Typically the shooter ends up as a suicide, either by their own hand or by cop, so it doesn't appear that they chose the place because they felt they could escape safely. They knew going in that they wouldn't be coming back out alive.

There is a reason this guy shot up the skater shop and it's not because he knew they'd be unarmed. It will come out that he has a tie to it, or to one of the people he killed.

Ah, but if it wasn't gun free, he may have chosen a different spot. And I doubt mass murder was on his mind in the first place; I suppose we'll never really know. But going by recent history, the insane killers in Arizona, Virginia, Colorado, and Connecticut chose gun free zones to better their odds at completing their tasks uninterrupted. They're insane, not stupid.

 

[Dakota]

There is a reason this guy shot up the skater shop and it's not because he knew they'd be unarmed. It will come out that he has a tie to it, or to one of the people he killed.

That is what I am thinking... maybe at the 6 p.m. press conference those questions will be finally answered.

 

[justiceforall]

My point is, if Maryland residents were allowed to CCW, someone could have stopped this maniac before he killed two innocent people.

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.

I guess that's why there's no gun violence in Detroit. After all, Michigan is a shall issue state.

 

[itsbob]

In the Killeen, TX Luby's shooting the killer crashed his truck through a plate glass window. The first person shot was a man who ran over to help him, thinking it was an accident.

The element of surprise.

And GW, I have never - that would be ever - been in favor of gun bans. Ever. I am very much pro 2nd Amendment, and am in fact a gun owner. But your argument is still stupid and not doing us any favors. People like you with your juvenile gunslinger mentality shouldn't be allowed to own weapons because you are WAY too irresponsible to be trusted with them.

Don't forget in Luby there was a CCW carrier in the restaurant. But she was defenseless as to abide by the law she was not allowed to carry I to the restaurant (a gun for zone).. defenseless and unarmed she got to watch her mother and father die..

 

[itsbob]

I guess that's why there's no gun violence in Detroit. After all, Michigan is a shall issue state.

That's an ignorant statement.. Michigan MAY be but like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia your CCW doesn't count if issued elsewhere in the state.. i had a CCW for years issued out of Venango County PA.. I was still not allowed to carry or possess a gun in either city.

Check the gun laws in Detroit and please report back..

 

[edinsomd]

I guess that's why there's no gun violence in Detroit. After all, Michigan is a shall issue state.

Detroit police chief: Legal gun owners can deter crime | The Detroit News

"Detroit— If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday."

How's that taste, hmmmm?

 

[justiceforall]

Detroit police chief: Legal gun owners can deter crime | The Detroit News

"Detroit— If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday."

How's that taste, hmmmm?

Hows that taste? Evidently your reading skills are lacking. Here is what my comment was in reply to;

Originally Posted by GW8345
My point is, if Maryland residents were allowed to CCW, someone could have stopped this maniac before he killed two innocent people.

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun.

So you prove my point by showing that Detroit is a city in a state where it is VERY easy to carry a gun, concealed and otherwise, but yet the Chief of police complains that while easy enough, not enough people do so.

Then people such as yourself and itsbob come on and say if we only lived in a state where we could get concealed carry permits all the injustices would vanish.

I merely pointed out that Detroit is one of those places and even still, those troubles are still there.

Thank you very much for helping to prove my point.

 

[justiceforall]

That's an ignorant statement.. Michigan MAY be but like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia your CCW doesn't count if issued elsewhere in the state.. i had a CCW for years issued out of Venango County PA.. I was still not allowed to carry or possess a gun in either city.

Check the gun laws in Detroit and please report back..

I did. Pretty easy to carry a gun in Detroit. Report back.

 

[edinsomd]

Hows that taste? Evidently your reading skills are lacking. Here is what my comment was in reply to;



So you prove my point by showing that Detroit is a city in a state where it is VERY easy to carry a gun, concealed and otherwise, but yet the Chief of police complains that while easy enough, not enough people do so.

Then people such as yourself and itsbob come on and say if we only lived in a state where we could get concealed carry permits all the injustices would vanish.

I merely pointed out that Detroit is one of those places and even still, those troubles are still there.

Thank you very much for helping to prove my point.

My reading skills are fine, thanks. You brought Detroit as some sort of example- maybe you need to better state your point.
And thanks for playing!

 

[justiceforall]

My reading skills are fine, thanks. You brought Detroit as some sort of example- maybe you need to better state your point.
And thanks for playing!

Oh, ok. Your reading skills are fine. It's your comprehension and thought process that needs work. Got it.

 

[MMDad]

OK MMDad, then please explain why EACH and EVERY recent mass shooting has occurred in a gun free zone. Because the killer KNOWS he's the only one there with a weapon. How often do these incidents happen at gun shows or police stations, hmmmm?

Now who looks silly?

In the Navy Yard shooting he took out the armed people first. If you shoot your way through the armed people, and you know that there are probably more armed people there, what makes you think that more armed people would be a deterrent? If the guy is willing to die, how would the potential of dying stop him?

Do you know for a fact that there were no legal CCW carriers in the mall when this happened? With a mall that size, and with a bank in there, there's a great chance there were armed guards and/or cops there. In fact, since the cops made it there within 90 seconds, they were probably in the mall. What makes you think that Mr. "if I see a threatening guy come out of the back room I'll cap him before he does anything" would help at all IN THIS CASE???

What some of you are missing is that you are trying to use this incident, in which it appears that CCW would not have affected the outcome, to argue for more CCW. It isn't logical, and it makes it easier for the anti-gun crowd to lump us all into the crackpot category.