Active shooter at the Columbia Mall in Maryland!

edinsomd

New Member
In the Navy Yard shooting he took out the armed people first. If you shoot your way through the armed people, and you know that there are probably more armed people there, what makes you think that more armed people would be a deterrent? If the guy is willing to die, how would the potential of dying stop him?

Do you know for a fact that there were no legal CCW carriers in the mall when this happened? With a mall that size, and with a bank in there, there's a great chance there were armed guards and/or cops there. In fact, since the cops made it there within 90 seconds, they were probably in the mall. What makes you think that Mr. "if I see a threatening guy come out of the back room I'll cap him before he does anything" would help at all IN THIS CASE???
What some of you are missing is that you are trying to use this incident, in which it appears that CCW would not have affected the outcome, to argue for more CCW. It isn't logical, and it makes it easier for the anti-gun crowd to lump us all into the crackpot category.

I have never stated this. I am not law enforcement, and am not trained or equipped to take on an active shooter. Especially one armed with a shotgun. If faced with a situation like this I would leave very quickly, or if unable would hunker down and protect myself and others, if possible. My point is if people were afforded their Second Amendment Rights, and those who were willing to take the responsibility to carry concealed, would, then criminals would be less brazen in their acts for the simple reason they now face the possibility of armed resistance.
As for the Navy Yard shooter, he planned his attack quite carefully. As did the shooters at Virginia Tech, the Colorado movie theater, and Sandy Hook elementary school. And they all planned for success by attacking essentially gun free zones.
 
C

czygvtwkr

Guest
The way I see it a killer isn't going to care if he shoots someone he didn't intend to. If a CCW person takes their gun out to use it I would hope that they care and don't just pop off return fire for the sake of doing it, advantage killer.

Who would return fire at a killer if behind the killer was a mall full of people?
 

edinsomd

New Member
The way I see it a killer isn't going to care if he shoots someone he didn't intend to. If a CCW person takes their gun out to use it I would hope that they care and don't just pop off return fire for the sake of doing it, advantage killer.

Who would return fire at a killer if behind the killer was a mall full of people?

No one with any sense, training or experience. Cooper's 4th rule of shooting- know your target and what is behind it.
 

justiceforall

New Member
My point is if people were afforded their Second Amendment Rights, and those who were willing to take the responsibility to carry concealed, would, then criminals would be less brazen in their acts for the simple reason they now face the possibility of armed resistance.
As for the Navy Yard shooter, he planned his attack quite carefully. As did the shooters at Virginia Tech, the Colorado movie theater, and Sandy Hook elementary school. And they all planned for success by attacking essentially gun free zones.

What a croc. You don't have any evidence of that what so ever. I gave you Detroit as a city where there are laws where it is very easy for a person to carry a firearm, yet they have massive gun violence. What about Phoenix? They have open carry laws and easy to obtain concealed carry laws. Why do they have gun violence. What about Detroit? How about Flint Michigan, Dallas Texas, Miami and the list goes on and on for places you can get a concealed carry permit, yet gun violence continues.

I support the second amendment but l detest the liberal aholes who use the loss of life to further their political agenda, I equally detest the aholes on the other side who do the same. To me, they are both pond scum who don't really care about the people who lost their lives, but would look forward to these tragedies so they can further their agenda.
 
C

czygvtwkr

Guest
No one with any sense, training or experience. Cooper's 4th rule of shooting- know your target and what is behind it.

When shots are ringing out and someone has the adrenaline/testosterone/fear combination I'm pretty sure this goes out the window for many people. Police often exhibit bad judgement in this situation and they are far more likely to have training that involves being shot at.
 

edinsomd

New Member
When shots are ringing out and someone has the adrenaline/testosterone/fear combination I'm pretty sure this goes out the window for many people. Police often exhibit bad judgement in this situation and they are far more likely to have training that involves being shot at.
As I may have mentioned, I am not trained or equipped to tangle with an active shooter.
 

edinsomd

New Member
What a croc. You don't have any evidence of that what so ever. I gave you Detroit as a city where there are laws where it is very easy for a person to carry a firearm, yet they have massive gun violence. What about Phoenix? They have open carry laws and easy to obtain concealed carry laws. Why do they have gun violence. What about Detroit? How about Flint Michigan, Dallas Texas, Miami and the list goes on and on for places you can get a concealed carry permit, yet gun violence continues.

I support the second amendment but l detest the liberal aholes who use the loss of life to further their political agenda, I equally detest the aholes on the other side who do the same. To me, they are both pond scum who don't really care about the people who lost their lives, but would look forward to these tragedies so they can further their agenda.

So I suppose we'll just have to disagree. Have a pleasant life.
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
I have never stated this. I am not law enforcement, and am not trained or equipped to take on an active shooter. Especially one armed with a shotgun. If faced with a situation like this I would leave very quickly, or if unable would hunker down and protect myself and others, if possible. My point is if people were afforded their Second Amendment Rights, and those who were willing to take the responsibility to carry concealed, would, then criminals would be less brazen in their acts for the simple reason they now face the possibility of armed resistance.
As for the Navy Yard shooter, he planned his attack quite carefully. As did the shooters at Virginia Tech, the Colorado movie theater, and Sandy Hook elementary school. And they all planned for success by attacking essentially gun free zones.

We agree. But that still does nothing to advance the argument made by some here that CCW would have made a difference IN THIS CASE.
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
When shots are ringing out and someone has the adrenaline/testosterone/fear combination I'm pretty sure this goes out the window for many people. Police often exhibit bad judgement in this situation and they are far more likely to have training that involves being shot at.

That's why most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets and very few hits. There are two types of people who can maintain their composure in a situation like this - psychopaths and those who are extremely well trained. And Mr. "I am qualified because I worked on nukes" only fits in one of those categories.
 

DipStick

Keep Calm and Don't Care!
Ah, but if it wasn't gun free, he may have chosen a different spot. And I doubt mass murder was on his mind in the first place; I suppose we'll never really know. But going by recent history, the insane killers in Arizona, Virginia, Colorado, and Connecticut chose gun free zones to better their odds at completing their tasks uninterrupted. They're insane, not stupid.

Several of the incidents you mentioned, there was an explicit target or an explicitly spelled out motive for why the shooters chose those locations. There is no evidence, none, to support the statement that those locations were chosen because they're "gun free zones".

The only exception might be Sandy Hook where it appears Adam Lanza was just looking to commit the most horrific crime possible by executing a bunch of elementary school kids. And Adam Lanza had no intentions of leaving there alive. I doubt he just said "This is a gun free zone so I'll just go here and kill people".
 
Last edited:

GW8345

Not White House Approved
That's why most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets and very few hits. There are two types of people who can maintain their composure in a situation like this - psychopaths and those who are extremely well trained. And Mr. "I am qualified because I worked on nukes" only fits in one of those categories.
Yep, I've played with some pretty dangerous stuff, what have you done with your life, besides play soccer dad?

Obviously you missed the part where I said I handled small arms also, .38's, 9mm, .45's.

Also, can you back up that claim about most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets with very few hits. You have been watching too much liberal media where they never tell you how a good guy with a gun takes down a bad gun with a gun, and that all cops can't hit the ground if they fell on it.
 

justiceforall

New Member
Yep, I've played with some pretty dangerous stuff, what have you done with your life, besides play soccer dad?

Obviously you missed the part where I said I handled small arms also, .38's, 9mm, .45's.

Also, can you back up that claim about most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets with very few hits. You have been watching too much liberal media where they never tell you how a good guy with a gun takes down a bad gun with a gun, and that all cops can't hit the ground if they fell on it.

Didn't someone say there was a good guy with a gun in this situation within 90 seconds? How come, like in most of these incidents, the bad guy with the gun was the guy to end it?
 

DipStick

Keep Calm and Don't Care!
Yep, I've played with some pretty dangerous stuff, what have you done with your life, besides play soccer dad?

Obviously you missed the part where I said I handled small arms also, .38's, 9mm, .45's.

Also, can you back up that claim about most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets with very few hits. You have been watching too much liberal media where they never tell you how a good guy with a gun takes down a bad gun with a gun, and that all cops can't hit the ground if they fell on it.

If you're trying to accuse MMDad of being some liberal who watches MSNBC, you've already lost the argument.

There's tons and tons and tons of evidence to support the statement that most bullets fired by police miss their intended targets.
 

protectmd

New Member
Wow.

There have been quite a lot of people who don't believe that a CCW permit holder would have been able to stop an "active shooter." I would argue otherwise. Look at who your CCW holders are.

Veterans of war/combat (who've been shot at before and can deal with threats in a cool, calm and collective manner). Target shooters, who shoot on the regular, weekly in some cases, and train/participate in competitive shooting. People who've been victimized, and have trained not to become a victim again. Cops and security guards. And of course your average citizens who've taken a CCW class. If we are going to entertain the philosophy that CCW holders aren't qualified to carry a gun or deal with threats, then who is? Are we going to sit here and demonize CCW holders and citizens who could have stopped the killing, had they been armed with a firearm? Are we going to sit here and say that citizens who pass background checks and go through the process to obtain a permit are all potential criminals who plan to commit evil acts with their firearm?

Cops in Maryland are only required to go to the range once a year to qualify with their duty weapon. For DC its 2 times a year. If you rely on cops for your protection, who protects you from the cops? I was watching a news clip earlier on how Cathy Lanier was attempting to explain to the DC council why her department was exhibiting criminal behavior. Wasn't it this past year that Christopher Dorner lost his mind and went on a shooting rampage "because he lost his mind?" Theres countless other incidents involving police as the pool of applicants has slowly dwindled over the years to nothing, for such jobs involving high levels of public trust, trust of national secrets, and those eligible for military training. It only will force agencies to start taking people who have "red flags" in their background as they will seek to take the lesser of evils just to fill the ranks and demand. As the ones who shouldn't be hired slip through the cracks, you can almost guarantee incidents involving corruption and criminal behavior will be on the increase both in the military, national security fields and law enforcement career fields. How many of the cops that serve in the jurisdictions you frequent are crack shots with their pistols?

With this being said, its clear i'd rather rely on my own training and abilities to stop some killer madman than to rely on those who may not act when the time comes. What would the news say if they went to interview witnesses who all said "If I was allowed to carry my gun, I could have stopped this guy from doing this." What would the headlines read if a person who was carrying with a CCW permit was shopping nearby and stopped the threat as soon as they heard the first shot or saw him with a gun?

Lastly. While everyone is focused on what Maryland will do as far as banning guns, ammo, and magazines, there is another component that a lot of individuals are ignoring here. This guy built bombs, or made an attempt to according to the news. At the end of the day, if he had not had guns, it would have been bombs. If not bombs, then knives, or swords, fire, a car, who knows? The reality is, people who commit evil acts will continue to do so unless good people stop them. Will this incident be a turning point for Marylanders to realize that the politicians who make laws to prevent them from protecting themselves are ultimately making it easier for those who do things like this?
 
C

czygvtwkr

Guest
Yep, I've played with some pretty dangerous stuff, what have you done with your life, besides play soccer dad?

Obviously you missed the part where I said I handled small arms also, .38's, 9mm, .45's.

Also, can you back up that claim about most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets with very few hits. You have been watching too much liberal media where they never tell you how a good guy with a gun takes down a bad gun with a gun, and that all cops can't hit the ground if they fell on it.

It seems to happen alot in NYC

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/times-s...ot-two-innocent-bystanders-near-times-square/

NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News

Amadou Diallo News - The New York Times
 
C

czygvtwkr

Guest
Wow.

There have been quite a lot of people who don't believe that a CCW permit holder would have been able to stop an "active shooter." I would argue otherwise.

I think most of the arguement on here isn't against CCWs but this is probably not a situation where that would have mattered and stop trying to use it for a political agenda. At least that is my argument, that and there are probably a lot more arm chair Rambos that claim they could have done something that there really are.
 

justiceforall

New Member
I think most of the arguement on here isn't against CCWs but this is probably not a situation where that would have mattered and stop trying to use it for a political agenda. At least that is my argument, that and there are probably a lot more arm chair Rambos that claim they could have done something that there really are.

:dingding: :buddies:
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
Yep, I've played with some pretty dangerous stuff, what have you done with your life, besides play soccer dad?

Obviously you missed the part where I said I handled small arms also, .38's, 9mm, .45's.

Also, can you back up that claim about most cop shootings involve a ton of bullets with very few hits. You have been watching too much liberal media where they never tell you how a good guy with a gun takes down a bad gun with a gun, and that all cops can't hit the ground if they fell on it.

Do you really think that you are the only veteran in Southern Maryland? You think that there aren't thousands of us in SoMD that know exactly what that training consists of?

Keep on doubling down on your stupidity. It's gotten you so far already.
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
I think most of the arguement on here isn't against CCWs but this is probably not a situation where that would have mattered and stop trying to use it for a political agenda. At least that is my argument, that and there are probably a lot more arm chair Rambos that claim they could have done something that there really are.

That, plus trying to politicize this makes it easy for the anti-gun folks to lump us all in with the crazies.
 
Top