Alfa Romeo 4C review

nhboy

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
Link to original article.

"The 4C more than lives up to its promise, thanks to light weight and an engaging four-cylinder turbo engine

As if there wasn't enough expectation surrounding the Alfa Romeo 4C, the introductions focused on targets: a quest for uncompromising driving pleasure, a kerb weight of no more than 900kg, supercar performance at an affordable price and, not least, the task of steering the Italian brand back into the realms of desirability and increased sales.

Yes, it's another new dawn for Alfa, and this time it's serious about returning to the USA and introducing the marque to the Asia-Pacific region, as well as reinvigorating its prowess throughout Europe. Talk of the marque's demise is premature but after decades of managerial prevaricating and lacklustre products, Alfa Romeo desperately needs new product to invigorate its current line-up of Mito supermini and Giulietta family hatchback.

And here's such a thing. On paper at least, the 4C has what it takes, a fusion of the latest technology and a commitment to driving pleasure that Alfisti and car nuts in general have been demanding for years. "
 

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glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
The price though, thats the hard part........ 54K, thats pretty dam steep. Whats that, 2 Miat... I mean MX-5s?


Not quite, top of the line MX-5 comes in around 30K, but still. Mazdas biggest downfall is that wimpy ass 167 hp engine......really now. With the 4Cs 240hp, even if it cost an extra 5K, it would kill the 4c, even with the 4cs edge from being mid engine.

Why they dont still offer a Mazdaspeed version I'll never figure out..... saying you dont need to power to enjoy the drive is one thing, I would rather have the option to just not use as much pedal :coffee:
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
GURPS said:
Pantara is NOT Italian is it ?

with a 351C
Click to expand...

Most certainly is (was) Italian. Their history...in one paragraph from wikipedia:

De Tomaso Automobili SpA is an Italian car-manufacturing company. It was founded by the Argentine-born Alejandro de Tomaso (1928–2003) in Modena in 1959. It originally produced various prototypes and racing cars, including a Formula One car for Frank Williams' team in 1970. The company developed a reputation for producing sports and luxury vehicles. From 1976 to 1993 De Tomaso owned legendary Italian sports car maker Maserati, and was responsible for producing cars including the Biturbo, the Kyalami, Quattroporte III, Karif, and the Chrysler TC. De Tomaso also owned motorcycle company Moto Guzzi from 1973 to 1993.
Click to expand...
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
GURPS said:
I knew that the Pantara was Designed, I did not realize Built as well
Click to expand...

Yup. DeTomaso started out using other European engines in his cars. Then Ford came out with the light weight 260/289 V-8 and that's what went in to the Mangusta's. The Pantera design probably would have received the same engines were it not for the introduction of the new Cleveland, with identical mounting patterns as the 289/302/351W, coinciding with the introduction of the Pantera. That decision put almost another 100 HP on tap and made the cars what they are.
 
aps45819

aps45819

24/7 Single Dad
glhs837 said:
The price though, thats the hard part........ 54K, thats pretty dam steep. Whats that, 2 Miat... I mean MX-5s?


Not quite, top of the line MX-5 comes in around 30K, but still. Mazdas biggest downfall is that wimpy ass 167 hp engine......
Click to expand...

Model=HP / Price / lbs per horsepower / Points

Acura TSX=205 / $29000 / 15.7 / 455
Acura TL=286 / $39000 / 12.6 / 491

Audi TT=255 / $40000 / 10.9 / 436
Audi A3=250 / $34000 / 12.9 / 438
Audi RS4=420 / $66000 / 8.6 / 567

BMW 3 Series=300 / $41000 / 10.9 / 446
BMW Z4=330 / $51800 / 9.1 / 464

Bugati Veyron 16.4 =987 / $1,200,000 / 4.2 / 5040

Buick LaCrosse=240 / $29000 / 14.5 / 476
Buick Lucerbe=275 / $35000 / 13.6 / 420

Cadillac CTS-V=400 / $51000 / 9.2 / 469
Cadillac STS-V=469 / $77000 / 8.2 / 631

Chevy Cobalt SS=205 / $22000 / 13.5 / 297
Chevy Corvette C6=400 / $45000 / 7.95 / 357
Chevy Corvette Z06=505 / $70000 / 6.3 / 441
Chevy Impala SS=303 / $28000 / 11.7 / 327
Chevy Malibu SS=240 / $25000 / 13.2 / 330
Chevy Monte Carlo SS=303 / $28000 / 11.0 / 308
Chevy Trailblazer SS=395 / $33000 / 12.0 / 396

Chrysler Crossfire=215 / $40000 / 14.0 / 560
Chrysler PT Cruiser=230 / $29000 / 13.3 / 385
Chrysler 300C SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 8.7 / 348

Dodge Caliber SRT-4=300 / $24000 / 9.8 / 235
Dodge Charger SRT-8=425 / $36000 / 8.9 / 320
Dodge Viper SRT-10=510 / $84000 / 6.7 / 562

Ford Mustang GT500=500 / $41000 / 6.7 / 274
Ford Mustang GT=300 / $28000 / 11.5 / 322

Honda S2000=237 / $34000 / 11.9 / 404
Honda Civic Si=197 / $24000 / 14.6 / 408

Hyundai Tiburon=172 / $20000 / 17.3 / 346

Infinite G35=315 / $35000 / 11.1 / 388

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 11.2 / 448

Lexus IS350=306 / $35000 / 11.3 / 395

Lincoln MKZ=263 / $35000 / 12.9 / 450

Lotus Elise=190 / $43000 / 10.4 / 447
Lotus Exige=243 / $80000 / 8.1 / 648 (Not street legal)

Mazda MX-5=170 / $28000 / 14.35 / 401
Mazda RX-8=238 / $28000 / 12.7 / 355
MazdaSpeed3=260 / $24000 / 10.3 / 247
MazdaSpeed6=287 / $30000 / 11.1 / 333

Mercedes CLK=475 / $85000 / 7.5 / 637

Mini Cooper S=175 / $25000 / 14.5 / 362

Mitsubishi Evo XI=286 / $35000 / 11.18 / 391
Mitsubishi Eclipse=260 / $29000 / 14.1 / 408

Nissan Altima=365 / $30000 / 11.5 / 345
Nissan 350Z=315 / $42000 / 10.6 / 445

Pontiac Solstice GXP=260 / $26000 / 11.5 / 299
Pontiac G6=252 / $29000 / 13.4 / 388
Pontiac Grand Prix=303 / $28000 / 11.4 / 320

Porche Boxter S=295 / $65000 / 9.7 / 630
Porche Cayman S=295 / $70000 / 10 / 700

Saleen S7 Twin Turbo=750 / $600000 / 3.9 / 2340

Saturn Ion=205 / $21000 / 13.4 / 281
Saturn Sky=260 / $29000 / 11.2 / 324

Scion tC=161 / $17000 / 18.0 / 306

Subaru STI=293 / $33000 / 10.3 / 339
Subaru Legacy=250 / $34000 / 12.2 / 414

VW Jetta=200 / $24000 / 16.1 / 386
VW GTI=200 / $23000 / 15.8 / 363

Volvo V50=218 / $35000 / 14.8 / 518
Volvo S60=300 / $36000 / 11.6 / 417
Volvo V70=300 / $37000 / 10.98 / 406
Volvo S80=311 / $45000 / 11.2 / 515
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
GURPS said:
Stacy David [of Trucks / Geerz fame] put a fiber glass kit on one, and a 302 in the engine compartment
Click to expand...

But we're trying to stick with factory or at least factory upgrade stuff. With enough welding, you can make almost any engine fit in any car. Were I to build a Miata, I would be torn over a small block or a well built turbo four. Wonder if the Dodge turbo 2.4 could fit in there....... factory upgrades all the way to 360 whp that have passed stock durability testing. But even the stock one with larger injectors and 3 bar sensors can do 280ish. That should be enough to make the Miata a freaking hoot.
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
glhs837 said:
Were I to build a Miata, I would be torn over a small block or a well built turbo four. Wonder if the Dodge turbo 2.4 could fit in there....... factory upgrades all the way to 360 whp that have passed stock durability testing.
Click to expand...


true ... turbos have to spool up

but yeah 400 Hp or 360 Hp Turbo ...... :yahoo:
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
aps45819 said:
Overall, the car gains less than 200 lbs with 1/3 of that on the rear wheels. In other words, the car does not become a nose-heavy beast. To put things in perspective, one of our SuperFour Challenge turbo Miatas came in at almost exactly the same weight and distribution. From the outside, the car looks completely stock. The ground clearance is unchanged and nothing needs to be altered on the body. As long as the engine is off, it's a great sleeper. But once you fire it up, there's no mistaking what's underhood.

Does it handle? Well, the first time we took one autocrossing, we set FTD with it - by a margin of nearly 4 seconds. We've destroyed our own lap records around our local track, outrunning purpose-built race Miatas with a street-oriented V8 Miata. Yeah, it handles.
Click to expand...



but triples [maybe exacerbated] the HP :faint:


The price for the basic conversion is $42,995, and includes the following parts and labor:

  • 430 hp 6.2L LS3 V8 engine with a two year warranty - basically a 2013 Corvette engine
  • 6-speed T56 transmission with a custom shift lever
  • LS7 clutch and flywheel
  • Getrag 3.73 differential with a clutch pack limited slip (1990-05)
  • Ford 8.8 differential with a clutch pack limited slip (2006-13)
  • reinforced engine bay
  • custom-built dual pass crossflow radiator
  • dual Spal fans on a custom shroud
  • new steel driveshaft
  • V8 Roadster G2 heavy duty halfshafts (1990-05)
  • V8 Roadster 8.8 Series 3 heavy duty halfshafts (2006-13)
  • upgraded rear hubs with ARP extended wheel studs
  • stainless steel headers and dual exhaust with a lifetime warranty
  • Magnaflow high-flow metallic dual catalytic converters
  • completely new fuel system with large diameter lines and high-flow pump
  • new GM-built engine wiring harness and engine management
  • Flyin' Miata custom engine tune for more power and improved driveability with our specific parts
  • tubular front subframe
  • LS7 cold air intake system and LS9 air filter
  • hydraulic hood lifts
  • Aerocatch hood pins
  • new battery
  • Corvette starter
  • fully functional dashboard
  • FM sway bars
  • V-Maxx XXtreme Track Pack Stage 2 suspension (1990-05)
  • FM Stage 2 suspension (2006-13)
  • FM four wheel big brake kit (1990-05)
  • Porterfield R4S brake pads (2006-13)
  • Flyin' Miata alignment
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
aps45819 said:
Model=HP / Price / lbs per horsepower / Points

Acura TSX=205 / $29000 / 15.7 / 455
Acura TL=286 / $39000 / 12.6 / 491

Audi TT=255 / $40000 / 10.9 / 436
Audi A3=250 / $34000 / 12.9 / 438
Audi RS4=420 / $66000 / 8.6 / 567

BMW 3 Series=300 / $41000 / 10.9 / 446
BMW Z4=330 / $51800 / 9.1 / 464

Bugati Veyron 16.4 =987 / $1,200,000 / 4.2 / 5040

Buick LaCrosse=240 / $29000 / 14.5 / 476
Buick Lucerbe=275 / $35000 / 13.6 / 420

Cadillac CTS-V=400 / $51000 / 9.2 / 469
Cadillac STS-V=469 / $77000 / 8.2 / 631

Chevy Cobalt SS=205 / $22000 / 13.5 / 297
Chevy Corvette C6=400 / $45000 / 7.95 / 357
Chevy Corvette Z06=505 / $70000 / 6.3 / 441
Chevy Impala SS=303 / $28000 / 11.7 / 327
Chevy Malibu SS=240 / $25000 / 13.2 / 330
Chevy Monte Carlo SS=303 / $28000 / 11.0 / 308
Chevy Trailblazer SS=395 / $33000 / 12.0 / 396

Chrysler Crossfire=215 / $40000 / 14.0 / 560
Chrysler PT Cruiser=230 / $29000 / 13.3 / 385
Chrysler 300C SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 8.7 / 348

Dodge Caliber SRT-4=300 / $24000 / 9.8 / 235
Dodge Charger SRT-8=425 / $36000 / 8.9 / 320
Dodge Viper SRT-10=510 / $84000 / 6.7 / 562

Ford Mustang GT500=500 / $41000 / 6.7 / 274
Ford Mustang GT=300 / $28000 / 11.5 / 322

Honda S2000=237 / $34000 / 11.9 / 404
Honda Civic Si=197 / $24000 / 14.6 / 408

Hyundai Tiburon=172 / $20000 / 17.3 / 346

Infinite G35=315 / $35000 / 11.1 / 388

Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8=425 / $40000 / 11.2 / 448

Lexus IS350=306 / $35000 / 11.3 / 395

Lincoln MKZ=263 / $35000 / 12.9 / 450

Lotus Elise=190 / $43000 / 10.4 / 447
Lotus Exige=243 / $80000 / 8.1 / 648 (Not street legal)

Mazda MX-5=170 / $28000 / 14.35 / 401
Mazda RX-8=238 / $28000 / 12.7 / 355
MazdaSpeed3=260 / $24000 / 10.3 / 247
MazdaSpeed6=287 / $30000 / 11.1 / 333

Mercedes CLK=475 / $85000 / 7.5 / 637

Mini Cooper S=175 / $25000 / 14.5 / 362

Mitsubishi Evo XI=286 / $35000 / 11.18 / 391
Mitsubishi Eclipse=260 / $29000 / 14.1 / 408

Nissan Altima=365 / $30000 / 11.5 / 345
Nissan 350Z=315 / $42000 / 10.6 / 445

Pontiac Solstice GXP=260 / $26000 / 11.5 / 299
Pontiac G6=252 / $29000 / 13.4 / 388
Pontiac Grand Prix=303 / $28000 / 11.4 / 320

Porche Boxter S=295 / $65000 / 9.7 / 630
Porche Cayman S=295 / $70000 / 10 / 700

Saleen S7 Twin Turbo=750 / $600000 / 3.9 / 2340

Saturn Ion=205 / $21000 / 13.4 / 281
Saturn Sky=260 / $29000 / 11.2 / 324

Scion tC=161 / $17000 / 18.0 / 306

Subaru STI=293 / $33000 / 10.3 / 339
Subaru Legacy=250 / $34000 / 12.2 / 414

VW Jetta=200 / $24000 / 16.1 / 386
VW GTI=200 / $23000 / 15.8 / 363

Volvo V50=218 / $35000 / 14.8 / 518
Volvo S60=300 / $36000 / 11.6 / 417
Volvo V70=300 / $37000 / 10.98 / 406
Volvo S80=311 / $45000 / 11.2 / 515
Click to expand...

Good batch of info. At only 4.8 lbs per HP, its no wonder the Gr. 4 Pantera is still a killer in the acceleration department....even if it handles poorly compared to the state of the art today. Only the Saleen in the above list even came close...(and was actually better). :buddies:
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
What am I missing?

RS4 420 hp, $66,000, 8.6, gets a 567

SRT-8 Charger 425hp, $36000, 8.9 gets a 320

Is a lower number better?
 
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