Alternative to Tobacco growing...

[jazz lady]

I think it's great! Huge potential. Want to open a wineary

Oh definitely. I need to support my habit somehow. Yes, it does have huge potential. I actually used to grow grapes at my old house and it's not as easy as it looks, but I had fun at it. I wish muscadine grapes grew up here like they do down south. I would be in heaven.

My neighbor had tons of concord grapes and he attempted to make wine. Paint thinner tasted better and was less toxic.

 

[tikipirate]

Well my name's John Lee Pettimore
Same as my daddy and his daddy before
You hardly ever saw Grandaddy down here
He only came to town about twice a year
He'd buy a hundred pounds of yeast and some copper line
Everybody knew that he made moonshine

Now the revenue man wanted Grandaddy bad
He headed up the holler with everything he had
It's before my time but I've been told
He never came back from Copperhead Road

Now Daddy ran the whiskey in a big block Dodge
Bought it at an auction at the Mason's Lodge
Johnson County Sheriff painted on the side
Just shot a coat of primer then he looked inside
Well him and my uncle tore that engine down
I still remember that rumblin' sound

Well the sheriff came around in the middle of the night
Heard mama cryin', knew something wasn't right
He was headed down to Knoxville with the weekly load
You could smell the whiskey burnin' down Copperhead Road

I volunteered for the Army on my birthday
They draft the white trash first,'round here anyway
I done two tours of duty in Vietnam
And I came home with a brand new plan
I take the seed from Colombia and Mexico
I plant it up the holler down Copperhead Road

Well the D.E.A.'s got a chopper in the air
I wake up screaming like I'm back over there
I learned a thing or two from ol' Charlie don't you know
You better stay away from Copperhead Road

 

[jazz lady]

He'd buy a hundred pounds of yeast and some copper line
Everybody knew that he made moonshine

That WAS an alternative crop in years past. Heck, I think there's still some around who do it.

 

[Tinkerbell]

My father-in-law and husband both took the buyout. There are very few alternative crops that yeild the same amount of money per acre that tobacco did. Grapes aren't feasible, they are very susceptible to frost and it takes 5 years to get a full yield. Who's going to support the farm for those 5 years? Cotton is probably not possible either, however, even if it was, who is going to educate the older farmers on how to raise cotton? Who is going to offset the cost it takes to switch crops. It takes different machinery to raise different crops. Personally, we don't have a cotton picker. It's just not easy to switch crops like people think it is. For most crops, you need a great deal more acreage to make the money you make from tobacco with less acreage.

 

[Pete]

My father-in-law and husband both took the buyout. There are very few alternative crops that yeild the same amount of money per acre that tobacco did. Grapes aren't feasible, they are very susceptible to frost and it takes 5 years to get a full yield. Who's going to support the farm for those 5 years? Cotton is probably not possible either, however, even if it was, who is going to educate the older farmers on how to raise cotton? Who is going to offset the cost it takes to switch crops. It takes different machinery to raise different crops. Personally, we don't have a cotton picker. It's just not easy to switch crops like people think it is. For most crops, you need a great deal more acreage to make the money you make from tobacco with less acreage.

despite being risky cotton is not going to have the $$ yeild per acre that tobacco did/does. Cotton would return less than half the revenue per acre that tobacco did.

I think it would be cool to see bio deisel move forward. We already grow millions of bushells of soybeans and could grow millions more.

 

[Ken King]

Cotton? Who are you going to get to pick it? Hell, I know people that refuse to take aspirin because they refuse to pick cotton out of the bottle.

 

[jazz lady]

My father-in-law and husband both took the buyout. There are very few alternative crops that yeild the same amount of money per acre that tobacco did. Grapes aren't feasible, they are very susceptible to frost and it takes 5 years to get a full yield. Who's going to support the farm for those 5 years? Cotton is probably not possible either, however, even if it was, who is going to educate the older farmers on how to raise cotton? Who is going to offset the cost it takes to switch crops. It takes different machinery to raise different crops. Personally, we don't have a cotton picker. It's just not easy to switch crops like people think it is. For most crops, you need a great deal more acreage to make the money you make from tobacco with less acreage.

I thought the tobacco buyout program covered a lot of the costs you are talking about. The whole purpose was to get farmers away from growing tobacco and into crop diversity by subsidizing them NOT to grow it. They then use the buyout money, which they receive over seven years, to help them transition into the new crops.

I agree with cotton not being a feasible alternative crop, but what other ones have you explored? The UMD Agricultural Division article I quoted about makes it sounds like there is a lot of support and help available to farmers trying to make the transition to other crops, but I don't know how true you've found this.

 

[Tinkerbell]

I thought the tobacco buyout program covered a lot of the costs you are talking about. The whole purpose was to get farmers away from growing tobacco and into crop diversity by subsidizing them NOT to grow it. They then use the buyout money, which they receive over seven years, to help them transition into the new crops.

I agree with cotton not being a feasible alternative crop, but what other ones have you explored? The UMD Agricultural Division article I quoted about makes it sounds like there is a lot of support and help available to farmers trying to make the transition to other crops, but I don't know how true you've found this.

The buyout is $1.00 per pound for TEN years. They averaged the last three year's of your tobacco weight and give you $1.00 per pound. Tobacco typically went at auction for $1.50 to $2.00 per pound. So, already, you are getting less money on the buyout. Now, you don't have to put money back into the crop, because you are no longer raising it, but you do have to grow something for 10 years. It's part of the contract. So now we are throwing money into corn and soybeans, that we will be LUCKY to see ANY profit from. We only have a 50 acre farm. So, we don't have nearly enough acreage to see any decent profit from those types of crop. Tobacco yeilded MUCH more money per acre than any other crop.

My father-in-law is a lifelong tobacco grower with a sixth grade education and he's 65 years old. He is alot like many of the older farmers in this area. So, he can't exactly go get another career. He needs the buyout money just to make ends meet. He can't afford to throw much of that into another crop that may not produce or yeild much money. A cotton picker is not a cheap piece of machinery. Nevermind, he isn't experienced with cotton and doesn't know how to grow it. You don't just throw a seed in the ground and let it go. People who know nothing about tobacco would be surprised at what you go through to raise that crop. It's not simple and it's not easy. It's year round work.

 

[jazz lady]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114861,00.html

Very interesting article on the limited success of the tobacco buyout program in Maryland:

The average farmer gets $11,000 each year, said Christine Bergmark of the Tri-County Council for Southern Maryland, but some get as much as $50,000 or as little as $30. It all depends on how much a farmer listed as his tobacco income in 1998, she said.

As long as they file taxes as farmers -- even if they list annual agricultural income of $500 or less -- they get the same payment for 10 years, Bergmark said.

Part of that money is supposed to help farmers transition into a new crop, but critics say some farmers, particularly older ones, are cashing the checks and little more.

So it's 10 years, not 7 years, and a lot of the farmers are using the buyouts as income subsidy without looking for alternative crops. But they may not be to blame:

Myers and other extension agents said they are working to help farmers, but the transition has not been a total success.

"Finding a niche market that you can exploit" has been a problem for farmers looking to transition into another crop, Rowe said.

Hance agreed.

"There's no alternative to tobacco," he said, adding that the farmers he knows are simply trying to increase production of crops they were already marketing in other seasons.

It sounds like there are problems on both sides of the fence.

 

[jazz lady]

The buyout is $1.00 per pound for TEN years. They averaged the last three year's of your tobacco weight and give you $1.00 per pound. Tobacco typically went at auction for $1.50 to $2.00 per pound. So, already, you are getting less money on the buyout. Now, you don't have to put money back into the crop, because you are no longer raising it, but you do have to grow something for 10 years. It's part of the contract. So now we are throwing money into corn and soybeans, that we will be LUCKY to see ANY profit from. We only have a 50 acre farm. So, we don't have nearly enough acreage to see any decent profit from those types of crop. Tobacco yeilded MUCH more money per acre than any other crop.

I didn't realize it was only $1 per pound. I thought it was much higher than that and in the $4 - $8 per pound range. That hardly makes it worthwhile nor gives farmers the ability to invest in alternative crops.

My father-in-law is a lifelong tobacco grower with a sixth grade education and he's 65 years old. He is alot like many of the older farmers in this area. So, he can't exactly go get another career. He needs the buyout money just to make ends meet. He can't afford to throw much of that into another crop that may not produce or yeild much money. A cotton picker is not a cheap piece of machinery. Nevermind, he isn't experienced with cotton and doesn't know how to grow it. You don't just throw a seed in the ground and let it go.

I see his point. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place, that's for sure. Can I ask what is he going to do after the ten years worth of payments is up?

People who know nothing about tobacco would be surprised at what you go through to raise that crop. It's not simple and it's not easy. It's year round work.

I come from a line of tobacco farmers on my mom's side and know how hard it is. I got a taste of working in tobacco fields and barns when I was a youngster and they are not pleasant memories.

 

[jwwb2000]

Cotton would not do well here at all. It loves hot weather and not just spurts here and there. There also needs to be some rain in there at times as well. There are other factors to put into the equation....the soil. Just because the soil in an area is the right type to grow one type of crop doesn't mean it will be good for another. The fields where I grew up are always tested and the proper nutrients are added to create the greatest amount of cotton. If the field is typically a low laying with wet soil, this will not work for the cotton either. The plant will not produce enough to shake a stick at. Also you must factor in the boll weavels and spraying for those so the cotton crop isn't lost.

I am not sure if there is a cotton gin around here but there would definately need to be one of those to take the trailors of cotton to so it can be deseeded and sold at the current market price. I don't think the farmers around here own cotton trailors, a bailer used instead of trailors, a couple cotton pickers (and not people). All that adds up and like metioned above.....would the older farmers be willing to learn how to grow a new crop and fork out the expenses it involves just to start out?

 

[Agee]

Based on the posts so far, the answer to my question:

How about Maryland farmers that have given-up growing Tobacco, try thier hands at Cotton?

appears to be; "Not a viable option".

However, some great points were brought out on Tobacco farmers in the responses:

-Most have been growing Tobacco all thier lives.
-Some have no desire of starting all over again with a new crop.
- Re-educating long time tobacco farmers with a new crop would be a challenge.
- The start-up costs for a new crop are prohibitive, and the yields vs. profits are not appealling.
- Some are close to retirement age, and are content to live off the pay-outs of the buy-out plan.

So... If the retired Tobacco farmers won't farm the land, what type of fate awaits it?

-Sell or lease it to Soy Bean, Corn farmers.
-Sell or lease it to enterprising breeds of younger farmers for commercial produce/herds/ flowers.
-Sell it to developers for 1/2 million dollar homes, or shopping centers. Something I personally would hate to see!

 

[jazz lady]

So... If the retired Tobacco farmers won't farm the land, what type of fate awaits it?

-Sell or lease it to Soy Bean, Corn farmers.
-Sell or lease it to enterprising breeds of younger farmers for commercial produce/herds/ flowers.
-Sell it to developers for 1/2 million dollar homes, or shopping centers. Something I personally would hate to see!

Unfortunately, the third option is winning hands down, because it's quaranteed and instant money - very attractive to a struggling farmer. Not many people are willing to invest the time, money, or effort into farming. It's hard work with sometimes negliable payoffs over a long period of time with absolutely no guarantee of success.

I've lived here since the late 60's and the changes, especially in the last 10 years or so, are staggering. We have lost so much farmland to development it is frightening.

 

[Agee]

Unfortunately, the third option is winning hands down, because it's quaranteed and instant money - very attractive to a struggling farmer. Not many people are willing to invest the time, money, or effort into farming. It's hard work with sometimes negliable payoffs over a long period of time with absolutely no guarantee of success.

I've lived here since the late 60's and the changes, especially in the last 10 years or so, are staggering. We have lost so much farmland to development it is frightening.

:

So the Tobacco buy-out program was just a ploy to open up land for out-of-town developers?

 

[jazz lady]

:

So the Tobacco buy-out program was just a ploy to open up land for out-of-town developers?

From what I see, yes. Maybe not entirely, but for quite a few it is the way they are going. Look at it this way: you get a guaranteed income for 10 years as long as you TRY to farm something, then you can sell your land to developers to fund your retirement. It makes good business sense to me, but I hate seeing it all get developed.

I know of someone selling 35 acres of farmland on the Eastern Shore. To sell to a private landowner, they would get around $2k an acre and maybe about $70k total. Selling to a developer, the price has now soared to $400k and they have an offer on it at that price. I'm sure it's the same around here. It's all about the benjamins.

One question I do have: I wonder if there are any restrictions on selling your land before the 10 year period is up?

 

[jazz lady]

I read an article not too long ago about crop/farming alternatives in Calvert County. I think it was in the Recorder. I remember one guy growing geraniums to supply to stores. I'll have to look around and see if I can find something.

I found it!

Tobacco farmers find a new crop

Bell Nursery helps growers sow seeds of agricultural diversity

Tobacco is disappearing from Maryland farms, and Bell Nursery in Burtonsville is proposing to replace it with pansies.

...
Bell Nursery is working with former tobacco farmers in Southern Maryland to provide an alternative crop: flowers.

Now I understand why tobacco farmers were loathe to give it up:

It's a misperception that farmers only raise one crop, Raley said. Besides tobacco, he raises wheat, soybeans, Angus steers and other products. For him, the flowers are just another way to diversify. "It's almost like a stock portfolio," he said.

However, tobacco is profitable. A farmer might take in about $4,000 per acre, $2,000 of which is profit. Soybeans, by contrast, net about $180 per acre, Raley said. Wheat is even less.

BUT...

Raley's greenhouse, however, has the potential to produce in a year the equivalent of the revenue from 35 acres of tobacco.

It's still a costly investment. Raley's greenhouse, generator and the propane tanks cost $325,000. "The mortgage is for six years, but we're not taking any money out, so we're hoping to get it paid off in five," Raley said.

"It's not hard work, compared to tobacco, and it's not intensive, but it is somewhat time-consuming," Raley said. He can manage the greenhouse alone, as opposed to tobacco that needs a team of laborers hanging 35-pound bunches of plants from the ceiling of a drying shed.

So there ARE alternatives, but the start-up costs may be prohibitive, especially if the farmer has to pay for a greenhouse.

And to answer Air's question about where Maryland's tobacco goes:

Nationwide, tobacco is declining, Raley said. In Maryland, production is down from 11 million pounds three years ago to 2.5 million pounds. Most of the state's crop goes to the Swiss market.

And the best part...

The idea is gaining popularity, said Donna Sasscer, an agricultural specialist with the St. Mary's County Department of Economic Development.

In some ways, it's a case of trying to change the culture of the area, considering how long tobacco has been a part of Southern Maryland, she said. However, new farmers are getting interested, and existing growers are talking about expanding. "People are slowly coming around to the idea," Sasscer said. <!--/story--><!--/content-->

 

[cattitude]

cd:

 

[jazz lady]

cd:

Sort of like you and boxers.

 

[jazz lady]

There was a similar article awhile back when the whole tobacco buy-out program began as to what they could replace it with. I think it was done by the UMD Extension Service. I'll have to try to find it when I get back tonight.

Found that one, too:

With buyout in progress, other crops sprout

Tobacco may have potential for producing pharmaceuticals, food and other products, but most of the state's growers aren't betting the farm on it.
Instead, tobacco farmers in Southern Maryland who have accepted the state's buyout are turning to a surer thing: fruits and vegetables.
Imagine going to a restaurant in Montgomery County, Washington, D.C., or Northern Virginia and ordering a cup of soup, salad and main course made of fruits and vegetables grown in Southern Maryland. That is the goal of the "So. Maryland So Good" marketing campaign launched this fall by the Southern Maryland Agricultural Development Commission. The campaign -- aimed at putting locally grown produce into the kitchens of restaurants throughout the D.C. metropolitan region and beyond -- is the next step in Southern Maryland's agricultural evolution from tobacco to other crops.

And about those grapes...

The marketing strategy is just a component of other efforts going on within the agricultural community. Ben Beale, an official with the University of Maryland agricultural extension service in St. Mary's County, briefed the elected officials on some positive aspects of growing grapes in Southern Maryland. He said there is a need from Maryland-based wineries for locally grown grapes, but the only drawback is the expensive startup costs for farmers.


"There is a need," Beale said. "The wineries are looking to buy grapes and the supply is not there." He said farmers need to know that growing grapes is labor-intensive and requires a wide knowledge of insects and disease to get a vineyard going, but the soil and climate of Southern Maryland is suitable for success. He said that Virginia has been successful in its wine industry and Southern Maryland could follow suit. <!--/story--><!--/content-->

 

[BuddyLee]

Speaking of cotton, I was bored while in the bathroom today and read the back label of a pack of tampons (don't ask). Toxick Shock Syndrome (TSS), I had no idea one could die from using a tampon.