Ambulance Association Supports Tax Increase for Second, Ninth Districts

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Every Post I made I know about pardner.
Now if you wish to ignore it that's fine with me.
I can assure you that the opinion you have of me is quite the same as the one I have of you.
IMO you have made a damned fool of yourself in this thread. Congratulations.
You miserable tool. You have far less than even a fraction of a clue of what my actual experience with the local VFD is...yet you spew anyway.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
Losing a 150 yo home full of over 200 years of family history made me sad. Tools that want more of my money to do more of less make me sad too.
I know, Gill. I was on the forum when you lost your house. That is so devastating. You and Hijinx are both awesome guys. I just hate to see y’all at odds.

When we moved out of Calvert, and our house was inspected, a chimney fire was found to have happened. We were just darn lucky our house didn’t burn. I have always felt bad for your loss.

Love you both, but not my biz...really. That’s all.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
I believe that station is closed due to a lack of Volunteers. i believe the equipment has been removed, not certain. It was a big mistake building it without a guarantee that they would get enough people to run it. But like I have said over and over in here volunteers are getting hard to find.
Not sure it was a mistake to build the station. This is all driven by ISO ratings, road miles and water supply requirements. They must have thought at the time that there was enough of a volunteer potential in Golden Beach to make it happen.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Like I give a flying ####
Jinx, you obviously saw it as a calling - you were a professional. Most of those folks see it as a hobby. If they saw it as anything else, they'd do it for a living. You can work at a soup kitchen, or pick up road trash, or fly remote control airplanes, or fish - those are all hobbies, unless you do them for a living.

You can take all of the offense you want - that's on you, not me. Like the old joke about conviction (when you eat ham and eggs for breakfast, you know the chicken was interested, but the pig had conviction to you), if you're a car dealer or accountant or electrician for a living and you run calls in your spare time, you're a hobbyist. If you do it for a living, you are a professional.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
Jinx, you obviously saw it as a calling - you were a professional. Most of those folks see it as a hobby. If they saw it as anything else, they'd do it for a living. You can work at a soup kitchen, or pick up road trash, or fly remote control airplanes, or fish - those are all hobbies, unless you do them for a living.

You can take all of the offense you want - that's on you, not me. Like the old joke about conviction (when you eat ham and eggs for breakfast, you know the chicken was interested, but the pig had conviction to you), if you're a car dealer or accountant or electrician for a living and you run calls in your spare time, you're a hobbyist. If you do it for a living, you are a professional.
There are good and bad firefighters. Whether one draws a paycheck is not the deciding factor. Two years ago the highly professional Fairfax fire department watched a $5mil home burn down from what started as an outside fire because it took them 30min to get water to a non-hydrant address.
There are volunteer departments in SoMD that run thousands of calls per year and maintain ISO3 ratings for their community without anyone drawing a paycheck. They train more and have more experience than many sleepy small town career departments. The difference is competent and incompetent, not career vs. volunteer.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
There are good and bad firefighters. Whether one draws a paycheck is not the deciding factor. Two years ago the highly professional Fairfax fire department watched a $5mil home burn down from what started as an outside fire because it took them 30min to get water to a non-hydrant address.
There are volunteer departments in SoMD that run thousands of calls per year and maintain ISO3 ratings for their community without anyone drawing a paycheck. They train more and have more experience than many sleepy small town career departments. The difference is competent and incompetent, not career vs. volunteer.
I'm not sure what made you go through all of that for me. I've repeatedly, in this thread even, said that many (if not most) volunteers perform their hobby as well as professionals, and that there are poor-performing professionals. I did say those poor-performing professionals are easier to deal with, but that is a whole separate subject, too.

the problem Jinx has is that I see the hobbyist as a hobbyist. It's not about competence, it's about dedication. The professional dedicated his/her life to that function. The hobbyist does it in his/her spare time, but dedicated their life to something else. I appreciate the hobbyist a great deal, and I do not routinely challenge their capabilities. Yes, I know there are bad in both areas, but there are outstanding in both areas as well.

The issue came up that hobbyists who are older/more experienced have a tendency to not pull their weight - as in "running calls" by showing up and getting counted, not actually running calls, or by not participating in training. These people certainly exist.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
You miserable tool. You have far less than even a fraction of a clue of what my actual experience with the local VFD is...yet you spew anyway.
I can only go by your own words .

You are the uninformed moron that spouted off nonsense. I, on the other hand, watched them show up at 1130 and again three hours later, totally unable to deal with the fire.
We had a veritable convention of men and equipment.. They saved the concrete steps and the fuel oil tank
hey showed twice in the same night, you moron..and we watched our home, with over 200 years of heirlooms and history inside, burn to a crisp with less water ever put on it than I could piss. So,...
Spiteful little mofos, aren't they?

another reason I won't support an extra thin dime for those socially-challenged misfits.
Close enough....for all the good they did putting out a house fire I'm familiar with.
Losing a 150 yo home full of over 200 years of family history made me sad. Tools that want more of my money to do more of less make me sad too.
As you can see your rhetoric doesn't lend one to believe that you lend much of a hand to your local Fire Department.
I don't know you ( and after this thread I don't want to) but I can only go by what you say in the Post
Calling the men at the local Fire Department social misfits sure doesn't sound like you lend such a hand.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
the problem Jinx has is that I see the hobbyist as a hobbyist. It's not about competence, it's about dedication. The professional dedicated his/her life to that function. The hobbyist does it in his/her spare time, but dedicated their life to something else.
Again, that dedication doesn't travel with a paycheck. We have 'hobbyists' who spend more time at the station and in training than at their bread job. And then there are 'turds' (that's a technical term) who just clock in every third day at their career department and play video games until the next crew relieves them. Professionalism and dedication to the task depend on the person, not the paycheck.
 

officeguy

Well-Known Member
The issue came up that hobbyists who are older/more experienced have a tendency to not pull their weight - as in "running calls" by showing up and getting counted, not actually running calls, or by not participating in training. These people certainly exist.
And I said so much before. But even the older guy who shows up 5min after the truck has left the station and sits in the watch room may have a function, he may be a driver who can bring out a specialized piece if the incident commander requests it. He may be able to staff a fill-in to a different station if communications requests it. Sure, every department has their 'T-shirt firefighters' and 'losap experts', but the mere fact that someone shows up at the station but doesn't end up on a call is not necessarily a sign that they lack the will to pitch in when necessary.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Again, that dedication doesn't travel with a paycheck. We have 'hobbyists' who spend more time at the station and in training than at their bread job. And then there are 'turds' (that's a technical term) who just clock in every third day at their career department and play video games until the next crew relieves them. Professionalism and dedication to the task depend on the person, not the paycheck.
Again, of course there is a spectrum of quality in both the volunteer and the professional. "Professionalism" and "a professional" are not synonymous. If the dedicated volunteer were actually that dedicated (and not driven by something else), they would do the job as a career.

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This_person

Well-Known Member
And I said so much before. But even the older guy who shows up 5min after the truck has left the station and sits in the watch room may have a function, he may be a driver who can bring out a specialized piece if the incident commander requests it. He may be able to staff a fill-in to a different station if communications requests it. Sure, every department has their 'T-shirt firefighters' and 'losap experts', but the mere fact that someone shows up at the station but doesn't end up on a call is not necessarily a sign that they lack the will to pitch in when necessary.
Agreed. The issue raised was about the people who do it as a routine, and none of what you posted really addresses the lack of participation in training.

You described people on a different part of the spectrum, not the people that were being complained about :cheers:.
 

kom526

They call me ... Sarcasmo
This was quite the back forth last night. :duel: :duel: It's very easy to see what both sides are saying and Hijinx raises valid points through clumsy execution and Gilligan has profound experience with 2nd VFD given his loss and residency in the first due area.

IMO: Building a "Taj Mahal" will not improve services at all, so that argument alone is ludicrous. Why is buying the most top of the line apparatus so important to the departments? I will not buy the standard response of "to better protect life and property" since Gilligan can easily dispel that notion. There is no sense in owning the very latest piece of apparatus if you do not know how to operate all the bells and whistles, unless your objective is to look good in OC and in local parades. Building a new station without a social hall that can be rented out to line the department coffers (no new taxes) is a show of complete idiocy and epic selfishness. Like most life long residents I can remember going to Ridge VFD for BYOB benefits, wedding receptions etc., this function of the building can and should be used as a community meeting space and as a recruiting tool for more volunteers.

To Hijinx's point, he's correct to a point, we do not have enough volunteers in the county to man the departments we have. But to belittle a differing opinion and holding a holier than thou attitude about volunteers is damaging to those that do volunteer. Why is there such a shortage of volunteers? That is the question that needs to be asked, not why don't you volunteer. In my experience, some members of the first responder community tend to be cliquish and do not welcome potential new members. There was a thread on here a while ago about a member of BDVFD driving recklessly to get to a call, and some people were dismissive of the FF's actions. Actions like this do no good to the image of the VFD nor is it a image that others want to be associated with. I do know of having to deal with older members of an organization and their resistance to change, which I think adds to the image of the cliques that some of these organizations have become.

Serious introspection of individual departments needs to take place and plans of action need to formulated and implemented. Excluding public input on proposed tax increases would be high on my list as well as working on a good PR campaign and outreach to the community to increase volunteerism. I do see a day where we will have to have paid staff to man the departments on at least a part time basis, in the mean time making patient's insurance pay for transport and supplies consumed is not out of the realm of possibility. This whole debacle of the new building will do more damage to the reputation of the VFD services in this county than anything else in recent memory.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Let me add that in the case of 2nd District, they are not planning a social hall because they want to leave the old station and social hall standing. Buried in their presentation was the idea that the county would take over the operation of old building.
 
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