America Could Have Killed Usama bin Laden — But Didn't

[nhboy]

Col. David Hunt
"We know, with a 70 percent level of certainty — which is huge in the world of intelligence — that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the world’s best hunters/killers — Seal Team 6 — nearby. We had the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet, begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had done it. Nice job again guys — now, pull the damn trigger.

Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not kill Usama bin Laden."

FOXNews.com - America Could Have Killed Usama bin Laden — But Didn't - FOX Fan

 

[Larry Gude]

Why?

Why? WHY???? WHYYYYYYYYYY??????????????

Psy? Wanna take this one, bro?

Jesus H.

 

[dustin]

1. The information is inaccurate due to inaccurate sources. The event never took place.

2. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was notified in the time window required and decided not to "pull the trigger" because it was 70% positive ID.

3. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was NOT notified in the time window required to pull the trigger.

4. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was notified in the time window required and decided to wait to pull the trigger due to unknown circumstances, which resulted in being too late and out of the time window.

5. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was notified in the time window required, the trigger was pulled and bin Laden is dead but since the information is classified the public has not been notified yet.

6. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was NOT notified in the time window required due to lower chain of command waiting too long for great % of ID.

7. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden has been dead for a long time now, U.S. is acting like he isnt to create confusion in terrorist network and to continue to fight terrorist network.

8. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden has been dead for a long time now, all the top people on both sides (good and bad guys) know but don't want to say anything due to ?????

9. Information is inaccurate, correct leadership was notified in time window but intelligence later determined (correctly) that target was not Bin Laden, Bin Laden still in hiding.

10. Information is inaccurate due to being released by intelligence sources as disinformation.

11. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden is already dead and noone knows it.

12. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden is already dead but only terrorist network knows.

 

[PsyOps]

Why? WHY???? WHYYYYYYYYYY??????????????

Psy? Wanna take this one, bro?

Jesus H.

What the hey Larry :shrug: how the heck should I know why this happened. Hunt wasn't very abundant with his facts. None of us were there, including Hunt. I don’t doubt his sources, but he gives us nothing else but “we missed”. Perhaps there were 200 women and children surrounding Bin Laden (you know they shield themselves this way) and someone radioed in "pull off, there are non-coms." Okay, you say "so what, it's worth the sacrifice". What if, by some chance we missed him? You have 200 dead children on the ground for the Afghans to exploit against us.

Bottom line Larry, I respect Hunt and always appreciated his take on this war, but this knee jerk by you at best. We have no extenuating facts on this. If this turns out to be complete incompetence then I say heads should roll. I’ve always felt that way. Perhaps O'Reilly or Hannity will have him on to explain this. I want more facts.

 

[PsyOps]

1. The information is inaccurate due to inaccurate sources. The event never took place.

2. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was notified in the time window required and decided not to "pull the trigger" because it was 70% positive ID.

3. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was NOT notified in the time window required to pull the trigger.

4. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was notified in the time window required and decided to wait to pull the trigger due to unknown circumstances, which resulted in being too late and out of the time window.

5. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was notified in the time window required, the trigger was pulled and bin Laden is dead but since the information is classified the public has not been notified yet.

6. The information is accurate and the correct leadership was NOT notified in the time window required due to lower chain of command waiting too long for great % of ID.

7. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden has been dead for a long time now, U.S. is acting like he isnt to create confusion in terrorist network and to continue to fight terrorist network.

8. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden has been dead for a long time now, all the top people on both sides (good and bad guys) know but don't want to say anything due to ?????

9. Information is inaccurate, correct leadership was notified in time window but intelligence later determined (correctly) that target was not Bin Laden, Bin Laden still in hiding.

10. Information is inaccurate due to being released by intelligence sources as disinformation.

11. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden is already dead and noone knows it.

12. Information is inaccurate, Bin Laden is already dead but only terrorist network knows.

I think Hunt has very reliable sources, therefore the information is probably accurate to a point. Accurate in the sense that they had Bin Laden (70% chance) and could have killed him. But we don't know why they didn't. Could have been the reason I gave above. Could be a larger strategic reason for wanting to keep him alive. If they spotted him here the followed him and knows where he is. This gives us a huge advantage to interrupting communications to global cells. I can come up with a lot of strategic reasons to keep Bin Laden alive.

I do believe this, there better be a good reason for not taking this opportunity.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

I think Hunt has very reliable sources, therefore the information is probably accurate to a point. Accurate in the sense that they had Bin Laden (70% chance) and could have killed him. But we don't know why they didn't. Could have been the reason I gave above. Could be a larger strategic reason for wanting to keep him alive. If they spotted him here the followed him and knows where he is. This gives us a huge advantage to interrupting communications to global cells. I can come up with a lot of strategic reasons to keep Bin Laden alive.

I do believe this, there better be a good reason for not taking this opportunity.

Now tell us Mr. Cheney, what is your strategy?

 

[Larry Gude]

He was pretty accurate...

What the hey Larry :shrug: how the heck should I know why this happened. Hunt wasn't very abundant with his facts.

...about the only one that counts; We, the US of A, have not claimed to have his hide nailed to the barn door, as of today. Over six years.

SIX YEARS.

 

[Larry Gude]

See...

but this knee jerk by you at best.

...post 7.

 

[Thankful]

Where is he NOW?

Not sure why trigger wasn't pulled - But more importantly if we had sight of him 2 months ago and we don't have sight of him now - That's a problem to me. A big problem. If we don't have him in sight we can't pull the trigger. Let's find him now and get it done.

 

[PsyOps]

...about the only one that counts; We, the US of A, have not claimed to have his hide nailed to the barn door, as of today. Over six years.

SIX YEARS.

You think? Let’s go through the article. First he goes on a 3 paragraph diatribe on what will he write about this week. It took him 3 paragraphs to even get to the story. Then he begins his story with “We know…”. Who are “We”? He doesn’t tell us. Then he spent the rest of the paragraph telling us who was there to do the job. Nice reporting up to this point. Then he blames Bush and the military to failing again. Then he calls the people in charge “boneheads”, which I’m assuming he means Bush and our military leaders and goes on about Iraq and Afghanistan to stop terrorism, the military has no guts, safe haven in Pakistan, yadda, yadda… Real classy stuff.

Nope, not seeing it. Hunt says nothing about why the military and CIA decided not to hit the target. What accuracy are you talking about Larry? The simple fact that we PROBABLY had Bin Laden in our sites? 70% certainty may be high when it comes to intel analysis, but when it comes to dropping the bombs it leaves a huge margin for error. Were they spotted traveling through a village? Were there dozens people surrounding him, perhaps women and children? Hunt explained that the terrorists “never, ever hesitate to pull the trigger when given the chance”. The terrorists don’t care if they kill innocent people to include children and pulling the trigger is easy for them. We do care! So pulling the trigger leaves our guys with something these terrorists don’t have… a soul.

I’ve already said, and you typically appear to have ignored it, that “if this turns out to be complete incompetence then I say heads should roll.” But I’m not going to jump to judgment until I have all the facts. I want to know WHY they didn’t take this opportunity. Knowing they had it, by itself, is not good enough for me. Jack Murtha did this and embarrassed the crap out of himself. I’d hate to see Hunt do the same.

 

[PsyOps]

Here is a site that shows a photo of the possible siting of Bin Laden. I have no idea of the accuracy of this but I see an awful lot of vehicles.

Read some of comments below Hunt's article. A lot of people are asking the same questions I am asking...

 

[LordStanley]

Here is a site that shows a photo of the possible siting of Bin Laden. I have no idea of the accuracy of this but I see an awful lot of vehicles.

Read some of comments below Hunt's article. A lot of people are asking the same questions I am asking...

I counted 20 cars..... Where's Bin Laden?

 

[Larry Gude]

Psy...

You think? Let’s go through the article. First he goes on a 3 paragraph diatribe on what will he write about this week. It took him 3 paragraphs to even get to the story. Then he begins his story with “We know…”. Who are “We”? He doesn’t tell us. Then he spent the rest of the paragraph telling us who was there to do the job. Nice reporting up to this point. Then he blames Bush and the military to failing again. Then he calls the people in charge “boneheads”, which I’m assuming he means Bush and our military leaders and goes on about Iraq and Afghanistan to stop terrorism, the military has no guts, safe haven in Pakistan, yadda, yadda… Real classy stuff.

Nope, not seeing it. Hunt says nothing about why the military and CIA decided not to hit the target. What accuracy are you talking about Larry? The simple fact that we PROBABLY had Bin Laden in our sites? 70% certainty may be high when it comes to intel analysis, but when it comes to dropping the bombs it leaves a huge margin for error. Were they spotted traveling through a village? Were there dozens people surrounding him, perhaps women and children? Hunt explained that the terrorists “never, ever hesitate to pull the trigger when given the chance”. The terrorists don’t care if they kill innocent people to include children and pulling the trigger is easy for them. We do care! So pulling the trigger leaves our guys with something these terrorists don’t have… a soul.

I’ve already said, and you typically appear to have ignored it, that “if this turns out to be complete incompetence then I say heads should roll.” But I’m not going to jump to judgment until I have all the facts. I want to know WHY they didn’t take this opportunity. Knowing they had it, by itself, is not good enough for me. Jack Murtha did this and embarrassed the crap out of himself. I’d hate to see Hunt do the same.

...that's a bunch of filler ad pablum; no different than what the media does to avoid addressing topics directly. Forget this incident. Forget 70% or 7%. Forget Tora Bora. What about the six YEARS in between???

OBL is, as far as we are told, alive and well and comes out to taught and torment us on a regular basis and offer peace on his terms. It is unconscionable that we have not obliterated our primary enemy, the leader of the 9/11 and many other direct attacks on the US long, LONG before now.

I think we all know there is far more behind his being alive and well than whether or not we had a certain percentage of certainty as to a target opportunity and we know damn well it ain't because our folks in the field can't seem to do the job.

I'm so sick of it, maybe it doesn't even matter anymore. To hell with our borders. To hell with Social Security. To hell with our civil liberties. To hell with our enemy. Let him live forever. There's gotta be a good reason, right?

Right?

 

[PsyOps]

I counted 20 cars..... Where's Bin Laden?

Well, this was just a photo. I'm sure there were multiple angles that were used to verify whether it was Bin Laden or not. I'm sure they used locals and other type intel to tell us whether it was Bin Laden or not.

 

[Larry Gude]

Or maybe...

Well, this was just a photo. I'm sure there were multiple angles that were used to verify whether it was Bin Laden or not. I'm sure they used locals and other type intel to tell us whether it was Bin Laden or not.

...set some helo's on the ground, shut down the road, drop shooters all over the place and do a little safety inspectionand check ID's???

 

[PsyOps]

Psy... that's a bunch of filler ad pablum; no different than what the media does to avoid addressing topics directly. Forget this incident. Forget 70% or 7%. Forget Tora Bora. What about the six YEARS in between???

OBL is, as far as we are told, alive and well and comes out to taught and torment us on a regular basis and offer peace on his terms. It is unconscionable that we have not obliterated our primary enemy, the leader of the 9/11 and many other direct attacks on the US long, LONG before now.

I think we all know there is far more behind his being alive and well than whether or not we had a certain percentage of certainty as to a target opportunity and we know damn well it ain't because our folks in the field can't seem to do the job.

I'm so sick of it, maybe it doesn't even matter anymore. To hell with our borders. To hell with Social Security. To hell with our civil liberties. To hell with our enemy. Let him live forever. There's gotta be a good reason, right?

Right?

“That’s a bunch of filler ad pablum” (what is ad pablum?)? What do you think Hunt’s article is? He gives us virtually nothing in the line of facts. Mostly innuendo!

Do you want to talk about this incident or do you want to go into the history of Bin Laden? Let’s go back to the Clinton years in that case. I’m simply trying to say, devoid of all the facts, hold judgment. More will come out.

But don’t be mistaken Larry, I want OBL dead. NOW! It is rather embarrassing that he is still alive. In the long term I can’t explain it and I wont try to justify it. This one incident may be indicative of this incompetence. On the other hand, I can also think of several reasons for wanting him alive – this is based on the premise that we know where he is now. Whether they are good reasons in your eyes (or the eyes of Americans) is another matter that falls outside the realm of military strategy.

But I am curious why you think he is still alive? Politics, appeasement, afraid to further stir the already-frenzied-hatred toward us? What?

In this article there was this comment:

“I'm agreeing with the COL that our government and most of our leadership is TOO WORRIED about bad press and not worried enough about sending the correct message to murderers and cutthroats.”

Heard this before Larry? I’ve been alluding to the effects of the media on this war since the beginning. Could it be possible that this is why they didn’t pull the trigger? The media wields a heavy hand on American sentiment ultimately affecting our military’s ability to pull the trigger. When will we face the fact that we are fighting more than one enemy in this war?

 

[Kerad]

Heard this before Larry? I’ve been alluding to the effects of the media on this war since the beginning. Could it be possible that this is why they didn’t pull the trigger? The media wields a heavy hand on American sentiment ultimately affecting our military’s ability to pull the trigger. When will we face the fact that we are fighting more than one enemy in this war?

YES!!! There it is!

I knew that it wouldn't take long for you to blame the media for this. Of course...it's the media's fault!!!

 

[Larry Gude]

I believe...

“
But I am curious why you think he is still alive? Politics, appeasement, afraid to further stir the already-frenzied-hatred toward us? What?

...that you and I think the same in terms of how our nations enemies should be treated.

I believe it is the administration's responsibility for how it is today and I believe they are at fault. You think the media are responsible. That is and has been and likely will continue to be our major disagreement. That and the jazz thing which I can accept on artistic merits.

I don't believe for one second that OBL would still be alive if getting him was a priority of the US armed forces. They take their orders from the CIC.

I believe the WH has decided the exact same things the WH decided between 1993 and 2000; OBL is too sensitive a target to take out. I believe there are understandings with other world leaders that a good deal of pressure against further operations against us on US soil is the price to be paid in exchange for OBL being left alone.

I believe instability within Pakistan, or wherever he is, also comes into play.

I believe oil considerations, as the price has climbed towards $100 a barrel are also part of the equation.

I believe this is statesman ship of the too clever by half variety.

 

[Plan B]

OBL a bit player

YES!!! There it is!

I knew that it wouldn't take long for you to blame the media for this. Of course...it's the media's fault!!!

1st, if its Fox News, it's tainted.
2nd, we and the media never know the true 1st options re the DoD. Thank God.
3rd, OBL has little control over world jihad. There are bigger fish to fry, and our vengance has already got too many innocents killed ( and just because our innocents were killed is not reason to go kill those who had nothing, nothing to do with 9-11!).
4. A stable Pakistan is in our best interests, like it or not. Larry is spot-on.
5. As a retired Naval Officer, I admire the current military, and think it is headed in the right direction, as long as it stays in civilian control, per the Constitution.
6. God bless the USA. Nomatter how you pray to Him, or what u call Him.

 

[PsyOps]

YES!!! There it is!

I knew that it wouldn't take long for you to blame the media for this. Of course...it's the media's fault!!!

Kerad that's so lame. Apparently you're ignoring the fact that Col. Hunt also blames the media. If you've ever listened to Hunt he constantly reminds us that the media has become more our enemy than our friend in this war.

That aside, you (ever predictably) once again miss the part where I have stated (in other threads) that I blame Bush for allowing the media to sway his judgment in executing this war. And I blame liberals like you for exploiting the bias the media portrays in this war for political reasons. You're not interested in winning this war; you're only interested in your politics and your liberal/progressive agenda; all at the expense of our troops.