America Could Have Killed Usama bin Laden — But Didn't
- Thread starter nhboy
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
No...
...because good LEADERSHIP doesn't follow reporters, 'experts', blogs, protests or advice scribbled on the bathroom wall.
The decision was made to let Sadr go.
The decision was made to disband the Iraqi army.
The decision was made to 'de-baath'.
The decision was made to let OBL go and to continue, as of today, to let him go.
The decision was made to go small with force numbers.
And no reporter or 'expert' or blog or flower grower on the Internet made any of those calls.
...because good LEADERSHIP doesn't follow reporters, 'experts', blogs, protests or advice scribbled on the bathroom wall.
The decision was made to let Sadr go.
The decision was made to disband the Iraqi army.
The decision was made to 'de-baath'.
The decision was made to let OBL go and to continue, as of today, to let him go.
The decision was made to go small with force numbers.
And no reporter or 'expert' or blog or flower grower on the Internet made any of those calls.
theArtistFormerlyKnownAs
Well-Known Member
If top government/military officials are allowing the media to influence MAJOR decisions, then i have no idea what this country is coming to but it dam well isn't good.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
And they...
...are unfit as leaders. TYVM.
In a free society you WILL get bad press. In a free society you WILL have opposition. In a FREE society you know these things going in and if you can't handle the heat, then get the hell out of the kitchen.
If top government/military officials are allowing the media to influence MAJOR decisions, then i have no idea what this country is coming to but it dam well isn't good.
...are unfit as leaders. TYVM.
In a free society you WILL get bad press. In a free society you WILL have opposition. In a FREE society you know these things going in and if you can't handle the heat, then get the hell out of the kitchen.
PsyOps
Pixelated
For better or worse Bush has decided to build on what little cooperation we have from Iraq and Afghanistan rather than disregard their demands from us. None of us have enough information that goes into these decisions. On the surface it appears Bush is appeasing politics over concise military victory. Neither of us are involved in the inside negotiations that take place when making the decision to take out high-profile people like Sadr or Bin Laden. We only know that we want them dead, and we don’t care how. It’s an easy decision from behind a computer monitor.
PsyOps
Pixelated
If top government/military officials are allowing the media to influence MAJOR decisions, then i have no idea what this country is coming to but it dam well isn't good.
The bottom line is... if a politician wants to get reelected or (in Bush's case) wants to keep a GOPer in the WH he had better understand that those votes don't come from pizzing them off. It's unfortunate that Americans are so easily swayed by an obviously biased media, but they are. Bush understands this and is trying to maintain some credibility in order to ensure votes. Now on the surface that seems like a rather shallow position when it comes to fighting a war but consider your options... Go out on his own, kill a lot of civilians trying to get Bin Laden and Sadr, with an already angry America; which will guarantee a Hillary gets in the WH, or try to maintain a steady course of action, make slow progress while balancing that with not further pizzing off the American public.
It's too late to say “Bush should have...” I agree we should have leveled Iraq in the beginning and stood up an autonomous security force, and rebuild. Bush understands the sentiments of the American public plays a huge part in our ability to keep the right people in the WH and congress in order to make sure we see this through to the end. On the political front there are really only two options we are looking at: 1) Win the war, which will one day end it. The GOP stands for this policy. Or 2) End the war, as Hillary and the democrats have proposed. A pull out before any clear victory is attained. Hers will ensure a complete collapse in regional, if not global, security. The media (yup, here we go again) knows how easily swayed Americans are.
Unfortunately we have a new generation of Americans that have lost their understanding of what it means to defend a nation. They want to be spoon fed their information. Instead of knowing we have a real enemy that needs to be defeated, they have come to believe that it is the government that we distrust rather than our enemies. This has come from decades of media propaganda. I don’t like it anymore than Larry does, but the old school way of defeating enemies is gone. Today’s means of fighting wars has to have a mix of politics and military strategy along with a sensitive understanding of American sentiment. The reason for this, like it or not, is having the media sitting in the middle of the process. IMHO they don’t belong there. They aren’t simply interested in just reporting the news to us, they have an agenda. And their agenda is working in the minds of Americans.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
You should...
...consider writing movie scripts or books so you can go in depth about how the grand rulers of the planet simply have to tolerate the little people, like myself, who only see friend or foe and don't possess the intellect, as the masters do, to see and comprehend the nuance and geopolitical vision necessary to go forward with the uber plan for the proper future, be what may, in terms of the uncomfortable yet necessary compromises and contradictions of a complex and intricate reality.
...consider writing movie scripts or books so you can go in depth about how the grand rulers of the planet simply have to tolerate the little people, like myself, who only see friend or foe and don't possess the intellect, as the masters do, to see and comprehend the nuance and geopolitical vision necessary to go forward with the uber plan for the proper future, be what may, in terms of the uncomfortable yet necessary compromises and contradictions of a complex and intricate reality.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Perfect example...
...of my ignorance. I thought Princess Di was an example of high profile. I thought those two are our self described enemies.
Silly me.
...of my ignorance. I thought Princess Di was an example of high profile. I thought those two are our self described enemies.
Silly me.
PsyOps
Pixelated
yeah... silly you.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Tell you what… I’ll write movies and books if you write military war strategy and policy.
Actually I think I’ll just stick to music. At least I know, to some degree, I’ll be heard there.
But here is your “complex and intricate reality… There is a reason you and I aren’t “grand rulers”. Ever think about that while playing arm-chair commander? Let me ask you this Larry, ever served in the military? Ever served in an intel unit? Ever have to watch intel flow and be analyzed? Ever watched high-ranking leaders have to make those tough decisions?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Deal...
Book #1; War; Kill your enemy.
Book #2; Anyone on your enemies side is also your enemy. Kill them as well.
I need some rest and then I'll get right to work on Book #3.
Book #1; War; Kill your enemy.
Book #2; Anyone on your enemies side is also your enemy. Kill them as well.
I need some rest and then I'll get right to work on Book #3.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Lol...
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
No. I did not serve. Point taken. I wont say another word about this to you if that is your price of admission.
PS; I'm the guy that roots for Col. Jessup.
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
No. I did not serve. Point taken. I wont say another word about this to you if that is your price of admission.
PS; I'm the guy that roots for Col. Jessup.
As the article states UBL was heading south from the Tora Bora region. My knowledge of that area is that it is in close proximity with the border of Pakistan and I am unsure if we have authority to conduct military operations there or not. Given this proximity and not knowing the exact location of the caravan it is possible that UBL was given a pass to avoid even greater international issues as to the US conducting unauthorized hostile military operations there.
PsyOps
Pixelated
First of all Larry, I’m glad your up on your Nicholson movies. I’m impressed. Secondly, your service (or lack thereof) is not the price of admission. It’s a statement to say “stop trying to play arm-chair commander with things you don’t understand too far outside of reading books and watching movies”. We don’t have all the facts. Without the facts we can’t say for sure why this hit didn’t happen.
Let me also ask… Have you heard anything else from Hunt or FoxNews on this? I haven’t.
P.S. I too root for Jessup. Bush is not Jessup. Neither are all the commanders in the field past and present; because if they were they would disregard any set of rules that are restricting them from killing OBL.
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
It's not this...
...incident that I take issue with. It is the mindset that said 'let him go' from the beginning. This incident is no more than yet another symptom that the Presdent seems, to me, to see higher purpose than that of the United States of America and that does not coicide with his vow of office.
...incident that I take issue with. It is the mindset that said 'let him go' from the beginning. This incident is no more than yet another symptom that the Presdent seems, to me, to see higher purpose than that of the United States of America and that does not coicide with his vow of office.
PsyOps
Pixelated
As I said before, I want him dead as much as you, but at this particular point in this war I can actually think of reasons to want him alive, especially if (IF) we know where he is. A lot can be learned by watching and listening to him. Killing him, at this point, means someone else, that is off the radar, takes over and the guessing game begins again. Out side of that, I would have to say there is no excuse for keeping him alive. I just wish Hunt would have provided more information. It would save us a lot of grief in this forum.
R
RadioPatrol
Guest
Here we go again; any questioning or dissent, yr a commie pinko fwag...
Anybody who resents media war coverage does not remember Viet Nam.
We are interested in winning this war; just not in getting lied to again. Along with Rush's ilk, why should conservatives be taken seriously?
if the tidied tee shirt fits ..............
Larry Gude
Strung Out
No...
...I always initial mine, but that is kinda funny.
America Could Have... 11-05-2007 04:56 PM Lighten up Francis
Larry is that you?
...I always initial mine, but that is kinda funny.