Arab Viewpoint on the Roadmap to Peace

[ThayerP]

This is an article that shows the current view of the roadmap to peace put forward by the US. Keep in mind that the only side expressing concerns about this roadmap is Isreal and the Palestinians have accepted it.

http://www.arabnews.com/Article.asp?ID=25900

 

[Kain99]

Oh Cripes! Here we go again....

 

[ThayerP]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. But it is political. Isn't it? Besides, this is THE root of the problems that lead to 9/11. And that is important.

 

[Kain99]

Check THIS out in your down time.

 

[ThayerP]

I've seen it and posted a few times to that thread. Thanks though.

 

[Kain99]

So..... you're a glutton for punishment?

 

[ThayerP]

Oh no. I can hold my own on this issue very easily.

 

[Ken King]

ThayerP, I think you could hold your own too. I have been saying for a while that the first step to peace would be to get back inside one's own borders. It would, in my mind, make all things possible, like peace.

 

[ThayerP]

Getting back inside the borders for Isreal is the first step that has to be taken before any peace will even start to happen. Unfortunately, this doesn't look like it will happen and Isreal is already doing the media blitz about how bad the roadmap is and how they cannot live with it. Well, if they cannot live with it, they will continue on the roadmap they have created for themselves. Watched Dori Gold on GMA today and he was going on and on about how bad it was and how it would not work because the Palestinians will not quit terrorism. How do they know if they will not do what is expected of them by the roadmap, UN resolutions, etc...

It seems like Isreal just does not want peace to break out. Someone extends their hand in peace and gets a black eye and is not supposed to be mad

 

[willie]

Originally posted by Ken King
ThayerP, I think you could hold your own too. I have been saying for a while that the first step to peace would be to get back inside one's own borders. It would, in my mind, make all things possible, like peace.

Do you feel confident that if Israel were to pull back inside the border there would be no more suicide bombers?

 

[ThayerP]

I feel confident that if isreal pulled back to the borders that these actions would be greatly reduced and possible eliminated. This is not something that anybody can stop overnight, same as murders will not be stopped overnight in the US. However, if Isreal has already said they are unwilling to work toward that with the current roadmap, it will definitely not stop.

As long as Isreal continues to put forward an antagonistic attitude toward the Palestinians these acts will continue. When the attitude changes in Isreal to one of a true desire for reconciliation then these actions will reduce.

 

[Bruzilla]

I would just ask... what country has had more regime changes in the past 20 or 30 years than Israel has? They go though parliaments and prime ministers the way that most Arab leaders go through mistresses.

 

[ThayerP]

I don't know if anybody noticed or not, but when the new Palestinian PM was being shown in the Palestinian parliament they showed the inside of the parliament of the Palestinian Authority. This parliament was not created overnight. It has been ther for a long time and was elected by popular vote. They are actually more democratic that Isreal is.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by willie
Do you feel confident that if Israel were to pull back inside the border there would be no more suicide bombers?

Confident? Don't know, but I would hope it would reduce this tendency. What I do know is that without adherence to legally established borders you have one group “occupying” another’s land and that will inevitably lead to a continuation of the violence (on both sides). Also, I think I have been clear that this would only be the first step towards peace and that it wouldn’t magically create peace by itself.

The Israelis claim that they are occupying the area for their self-protection but then they move settlements into the area bringing their citizens to the conflict. So are they protecting their citizens or conquering the territory for their exclusive use?

 

[ThayerP]

Originally posted by Ken King
The Israelis claim that they are occupying the area for their self-protection but then they move settlements into the area bringing their citizens to the conflict. So are they protecting their citizens or conquering the territory for their exclusive use?

Exactly. They claim to occupy an area for the security of their citizens, then move more citizens closer to the "new border" and consequently have to occupy more land for security. Strange policy of peace making on Isreal's part. The ultimate insult to the Palestinians is the "security wall" nicknamed the "apartheid wall" by the Palestinians being built inside the palestinian area for the protection of Isreal.

 

[Larry Gude]

Oh, I dunno...

Strange policy of peace making on Isreal's part

We pretty much did the same, sans the pretense of peace other than a few "treaties" here and there.

Worked for us.

 

[ThayerP]

True. And we could very well have followed the tactics of Cound Vlad Dracula and created a forest of bodies impaled on stakes to dishearten our opponents. However, times change and acceptable behavuior changes.

What we did with the Armerican Indians would cause a worlwide outcry now. What isreal is doing now is the same and should cause a worldwide outcry. In other countries it is but the US seems to simply say, "Well, Isreal has to protect itself" and ignore the fact that the actions they take are a direct cause of the actions the Palestinians are taking. Cause and effect.

 

[Larry Gude]

Nah...we'd just...

...get Janet Reno out there claiming the Sioux were abusing children, then we'd go burn 'em out. Maybe claim they had some WMD...hey, wait a minute!?

The thing about Israel that you and Ken seem comfortable with is that somehow the surrounding Arabs are going to suddenly stop having, as official policy, the elimination of the Jews if Israel does thus and such.

Well, I think that is a huge leap of faith. Especially when you consider that the Palestinians are in essence Syrians, Arafat ain't even from the region and that the Palestinians get NO help, support or, ahem, immigration into the surrounding nations, Jordan, Syria, et al. They are not ALLOWED into these nations.

They are used as cast-offs for one reason: Irritate Israel. Nobody says BOO about Syrian occupation of Lebanon, going on, what, ten years now? Not a few troops, but total military control.

It is not possible, to me, to square what else goes on in the region and then constantly dump what I see as the lions share of responsibility on this tiny little country whom EVERYBODY in the region has tried to wipe out at least once in the last 60 years or so, all the while treating the Palestinians, the supposed aggrieved party, just as shabbily, maybe worse.

In this way it is not like the giant US picking on a bunch of helpless Indians.

*this post has been spel cheked

 

[ThayerP]

Now to set things straight for you...

First the policy of the elimination of the jewish state is an old argument used many times before. Yes, it was the stand taken by the PLO and other when Jews essentially took the land they were living in from under their feet because a UN resolution was passed halfway around the world. If someone came to your house from France with the police and said that a court in Africa told them that they could have your house, would you just step aside and let them take it or would you want them out? Of course you would. It's no different for the Palestinians. This stance has ligthened up in the last 15 years. They are no longer saying that they want the State of Isreal eliminated. They are saying we can live together in peace as long as Isreal agrees to treat us with the respect that human beings deserve. Isreal doesn't want to do this.

Second, the question about the support of Palestinians by the other arab countries. Don't even make me laugh. Everytime an arab country tries to raise money to support the Palestinians they are accused of raising money for terrorists causes and threatened with diplomatic assaults. The Palestinians are allowed into Syria, Joran, Lebanon, Egypt as well as all countries in the Arab League. They are issued with special Palestinians travel documents from these countries which are recognized by all countries in the world, including the US. The do not want Jordainian, Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese or any other nationality because they are Palestinians and not from those countries surrounding there.

Third, the Syrian occupation of Lebanon was severly denounced by the Arab League. They are still under pressure from them to withdraw from Lebanon. In any case the main reason ther entered Lebanon was because Lebanon was thrown into a state of extreme civil unrest by the occupation of Isreal in Lebanon that created an army of so called terrorist groups fighting to throw an occupying power from their country.

Fourth, the only reason that the State of Isreal is being dumped on is because of the way they are treating a group of people. When the State of Isreal was created the area had a majority arab population. Not jewish. Because of the heavy immigration that went on illegally for many years before the creation of the State of Isreal this population demographic was changed drastically and caused the displacement of most oif the Palestinian population. To say that they are not getting support from the other countries in the region is not true at all. Where do you think the Palestinian hospitals get their supplies from. Certainly no Isreal. Where do the Palestinians get their food from since they are not allowed to travel freely and to get back and forth to work. Certainly not Isreal. All of this support is coming from the Arab countries in the region. The Arab countries in the region are the places that the Palestinians are sent for advanced medical treatment that cannot be done in shanty-town hospitals. If not for the surrounding Arab countries in that region the Palestinians would have been wiped out years ago. This is one of the reasons that the Arab Ccountries in that region get such bad press. They are made out to be terrorist supporting countries that prop up the Palestinians to keep them from being the victims of genecide.

You need to read something other than the standard news and information in the US. Better yet, travel to the Middle East and see what it is like, hear what is said and then see how you feel.

 

[Larry Gude]

I made the brief mistake of...

...thinking you had a modicum of intelligence and something worth chatting back and forth about, but...

You can take your sanctimonious condescension and stick it straight up your ###. I'll not be lectured or talked down to by any dim wit half assed self professed middle East expert who doesn't even seem to gather that a rather large number of Israeli citizens are...Arabs. You insinuations reveal very little actual knowledge of the region and it's history, current or historical. I didn't learn about the region from a Dixie cup.

So, thanks for nothing moron. Guess the refugee camps, imposed with the help of their “neighbors” because they won’t let them settle in other historical “homelands” a few miles away from where they rot like your knowledge of Middle Eastern affairs don't exist either. Guess the endless demonstrations in the Arab "street" denouncing the US and Israel, you know, the "death" ones, burning effigies et all don't exist either. Guess Danny Pearls execution was done by some folks who secretly love Israel. Maybe that cut his head off because he was a reporter?

It is #### poor dolts like yourself that make situations like the Middle east tensions inevitable. One side does nothing but incite. I made no disparaging remarks about you, your reading sources or otherwise. I gave you simple respect and courtesy as to your thoughts. Well, screw that, huh? What your problem is, who knows?

Thanks for nothing idiot.

Get that straight?