are you kidding me??? I am sooooo shocked!!!
- Thread starter GregV814
- Start date
Clem72
Well-Known Member
In Ford's case it's probably a combination of unforced errors on their part and accounting trickery to try and get a piece of the EV "startup" government assistance. Every new vehicle that requires extensive retooling loses money the first couple years, and despite record demand they decided to not produce even 1/4 as many Lightnings as they promised (chip shortage to blame I guess).
----Edit----
I went and looked at your article, it and the one it links to come right out and say the "losses" are before taxes and based on the $3.5B they spent to build a new factory and the money they are putting into updating existing supply chains. So not a "loss" a capital expenditure they want to use as an excuse for a handout.
glhs837
Power with Control
A number I haven't seen but want to is the margin on EVs. Back when Tesla was "losing billions", they were actually making money on each car. But they were plowing those profits back into growth, building three brand new auto factories. I want to know if Ford is making money on the cars outside of CAPEX. Building capacity to make cars that cost you more to produce that you sell them for, now that's a.problem. GM, for instance, has never made a dime of profit selling Bolts. Even before the car-b-que fiasco, they were selling those at a loss. It's not easy to build EVs and make money doing it. But it can be done.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
I look for the EV sales to drop even more as people come to their senses.
A glorified golf cart is fine for going to the grocery store or for short hops.
But people using an electric truck for business is nuts. The towing capacity may be the same , but the longevity of how long before battery charges is a great problem. Load that EV down with the weight of a load and it aint going very far.
As for Electric Tractor trailers. for long hauls under load? Give me a freaking break.
I might add that in the mountains big Diesels have the compression of the engine when downshifted and many are equipped with jake brakes that electric motor is not going to aid in braking in the mountains.
A glorified golf cart is fine for going to the grocery store or for short hops.
But people using an electric truck for business is nuts. The towing capacity may be the same , but the longevity of how long before battery charges is a great problem. Load that EV down with the weight of a load and it aint going very far.
As for Electric Tractor trailers. for long hauls under load? Give me a freaking break.
I might add that in the mountains big Diesels have the compression of the engine when downshifted and many are equipped with jake brakes that electric motor is not going to aid in braking in the mountains.
glhs837
Power with Control
Very much a "tell me you dont understand EVs" sort of post.
1. Many many people take longer trips in EVs and do just fine. 250-350 miles of range handles almost everybody's driving. needs.
2. Depends on the business. It doesnt need to fit 100% of all businesses needs to sell well. A lot of businesses don't need to tow all day. Or that far.
3. Think I read that 80% of semis dont do more than 500 a day. And far fewer dont do that while stopping to unload, which is where you can top off the charge.
4. Ever heard of regen brakes? You basically reverse the flow and let the motor recharge the battery. So, yes, the motor not only helps you slow the truck down better than compression and jake brakes, it also regains milage while doing so. And reduces the amount of money you spend replacing brake parts.
Electric truck regenerative braking, explained
Electric truck regenerative braking systems reduce the use of the service brake and extended range, but how do they work? We explain.
www.fleetequipmentmag.com
You say "as people come to their senses". What's actually happening is that as more people are exposed to EVs personally and see that statements people like you toss out there are bogus, they decide to buy one for themselves.
Hell, Tesla sold twice and many cars here in the US in Jan 2023 as GM sold Camaros in all of 2022.And about the same amount as Ford Sold ICE Mustangs in all of 2022.
Tesla Leads US Luxury Car Sales Yet Again, Per January 2023 Figures
Not long ago, Tesla was still considered a niche automaker and an unprofitable startup. Now, it's selling more cars than BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and others.
insideevs.com
EVs sales increased by more than 60% for 2022, in spite of overall car sales droppings.
US Car Market Shrunk In 2022 But EV Sales Went Up By Two Thirds
Even though the US new car market as a whole shrunk in 2022, more EVs were sold reaching a 5.8 percent market share, up from 3.1 percent in 2021.
insideevs.com
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
I predict the sales of EV's will drop as more and more people realize that the Government and Biden is putting them on.Very much a "tell me you dont understand EVs" sort of post.
1. Many many people take longer trips in EVs and do just fine. 250-350 miles of range handles almost everybody's driving. needs.
2. Depends on the business. It doesnt need to fit 100% of all businesses needs to sell well. A lot of businesses don't need to tow all day. Or that far.
3. Think I read that 80% of semis dont do more than 500 a day. And far fewer dont do that while stopping to unload, which is where you can top off the charge.
4. Ever heard of regen brakes? You basically reverse the flow and let the motor recharge the battery. So, yes, the motor not only helps you slow the truck down better than compression and jake brakes, it also regains milage while doing so. And reduces the amount of money you spend replacing brake parts.
Electric truck regenerative braking, explained
Electric truck regenerative braking systems reduce the use of the service brake and extended range, but how do they work? We explain.
You say "as people come to their senses". What's actually happening is that as more people are exposed to EVs personally and see that statements people like you toss out there are bogus, they decide to buy one for themselves.
Hell, Tesla sold twice and many cars here in the US in Jan 2023 as GM sold Camaros in all of 2022.And about the same amount as Ford Sold ICE Mustangs in all of 2022.
Tesla Leads US Luxury Car Sales Yet Again, Per January 2023 Figures
Not long ago, Tesla was still considered a niche automaker and an unprofitable startup. Now, it's selling more cars than BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and others.
EVs sales increased by more than 60% for 2022, in spite of overall car sales droppings.
US Car Market Shrunk In 2022 But EV Sales Went Up By Two Thirds
Even though the US new car market as a whole shrunk in 2022, more EVs were sold reaching a 5.8 percent market share, up from 3.1 percent in 2021.
You have your opinion I have mine. Nothing wrong with that.
You got more crap with you than a Christmas Turkey, same crap different day. Bottom line is EV's are junk plain and simple, not to mention an environmental nightmare! All your wishin don't make it otherwise.Very much a "tell me you dont understand EVs" sort of post.
1. Many many people take longer trips in EVs and do just fine. 250-350 miles of range handles almost everybody's driving. needs.
2. Depends on the business. It doesnt need to fit 100% of all businesses needs to sell well. A lot of businesses don't need to tow all day. Or that far.
3. Think I read that 80% of semis dont do more than 500 a day. And far fewer dont do that while stopping to unload, which is where you can top off the charge.
4. Ever heard of regen brakes? You basically reverse the flow and let the motor recharge the battery. So, yes, the motor not only helps you slow the truck down better than compression and jake brakes, it also regains milage while doing so. And reduces the amount of money you spend replacing brake parts.
Electric truck regenerative braking, explained
Electric truck regenerative braking systems reduce the use of the service brake and extended range, but how do they work? We explain.
You say "as people come to their senses". What's actually happening is that as more people are exposed to EVs personally and see that statements people like you toss out there are bogus, they decide to buy one for themselves.
Hell, Tesla sold twice and many cars here in the US in Jan 2023 as GM sold Camaros in all of 2022.And about the same amount as Ford Sold ICE Mustangs in all of 2022.
Tesla Leads US Luxury Car Sales Yet Again, Per January 2023 Figures
Not long ago, Tesla was still considered a niche automaker and an unprofitable startup. Now, it's selling more cars than BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and others.
EVs sales increased by more than 60% for 2022, in spite of overall car sales droppings.
US Car Market Shrunk In 2022 But EV Sales Went Up By Two Thirds
Even though the US new car market as a whole shrunk in 2022, more EVs were sold reaching a 5.8 percent market share, up from 3.1 percent in 2021.
Toxick
Splat
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
I own a hybrid RAV4 and it is a great vehicle. However one Toyota engineer made an offhand comment about it having 600 miles of range. Toyota is very conservative in displaying miles to empty on the info display, in combination with a fuel tank not meant to be completely filled and some bad sensors that would never read full people were losing their crap over that.
The MFD would read 460ish miles to empty and as the sensor bracket would deform this number would get smaller and smaller. People would fill up their car thinking it was empty and only get 6-7 gallons in it. They were doing all kinds of crazy crap like jacking one side of the car up at the pump to get more fuel in etc. There were stories where lawyers got involved and Toyota bought the cars back. In the end it all turned out to be a conservative reserve in the tank and a fuel sensor on a bracket that would warp. People were convinced Toyota couldn't make a fuel tank that would accept fuel. One guy drive until he ran out of gas, it was 150 miles past when it said it was empty before he was out and people were still freaking out thinking it only had 300 miles of range.
This is the kind of thought from people that will limit EVs potential.
glhs837
Power with Control
What's funny is sales increased through Trump into Biden, with subsidies and without?
glhs837
Power with Control
It's funny you mentioned wishes and crap but you're the one that never has any verifiable facts to back up your pronouncements and just call me names and stuff.You got more crap with you than a Christmas Turkey, same crap different day. Bottom line is EV's are junk plain and simple, not to mention an environmental nightmare! All your wishin don't make it otherwise.
"You're a poopy head!" ... "No! You're a poopy head!"
There is plenty of stuff that has verified by numerous sources on this forum from the very beginning about the defects and challenges of EV's. They include recycling of batteries, charging issues, mining of minerals, fires, insurance issues, charging times, and providing electricity to charge these rags. You appear to be the one that is in denial Cleopatra.It's funny you mentioned wishes and crap but you're the one that never has any verifiable facts to back up your pronouncements and just call me names and stuff.
glhs837
Power with Control
There is plenty of stuff that has verified by numerous sources on this forum from the very beginning about the defects and challenges of EV's. They include recycling of batteries, charging issues, mining of minerals, fires, insurance issues, charging times, and providing electricity to charge these rags. You appear to be the one that is in denial Cleopatra.
Sorry, but posting the same poorly researched and written anecdotal articles doesn't count really count. "My wife and I took a road trip without bothering to found out where and when we should charge and it sucked a lot!!!"
Whatever happened to that tidal wave of burning EVs that we were supposed to see? That never happened, did it?
We do agree that forcing people, or even providing incentives to buy them are Bad Ideas. Letting market forces guide the adoption curve will give the grid time to adjust. We agree that crappy EVs are not a good buy.
3CATSAILOR
Well-Known Member
FORD= Fix Or Repair Daily. Or, Found On Rusty Dump. The bottom line, battery powered vehicles will be an environmental disaster years from now when all of the old batteries are thrown away. There is no mention if the old vehicle batteries are recycleable. Usually if there is no mention, that of course means NO.
glhs837
Power with Control
40 seconds of googling finds this.
Here’s what Redwood learned in its first year of EV battery recycling
The company recycled 500,000 lbs of material from 1,268 EV battery packs.
arstechnica.com
BOP
Well-Known Member
Nice conflation of EVs and hybrids. There's a flag on that play, bud.
BOP
Well-Known Member
Right...to turn them not into recycled EV batteries, but into the batteries that power our electronic devices. You know the ones; like my Android that will go dead every other day, even when I don't use it, which I don't.40 seconds of googling finds this.
Here’s what Redwood learned in its first year of EV battery recycling
The company recycled 500,000 lbs of material from 1,268 EV battery packs.
Sorry, not impressed.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
Clem72
Well-Known Member
Come on man. You know every single EV needs to have 1k miles range, be able to tow 10 tons, look exactly like an existing ICE vehicle (so their friends don't know they drive a girliemobile) and needs to charge with a regular power outlet in an hour or 3 minutes at a commercial charger otherwise the whole industry is doomed!