Atheism

[Larry Gude]

Maybe humans aren't as sentient as we think we are.

It's one of her least attractive traits, labeling people and stooping to insult when the conversation isn't conforming to some hard and fast view she's long since made her mind up on.

:shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

Great. Now I've got an ear-worm of "so long and thanks for all the fish"

I can fix that for you;

[video=youtube;Q7wF4IWK5pc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7wF4IWK5pc[/video]

 

[vraiblonde]

It's one of her least attractive traits, labeling people and stooping to insult when the conversation isn't conforming to some hard and fast view she's long since made her mind up on.

:shrug:

It was a joke, snowflake.

"Insult." Good grief.

 

[Larry Gude]

It was a joke, snowflake.

"Insult." Good grief.

 

[Toxick]

And THAT bothers me, far more than being told to #### off.

What does? Disengaging from a conversation that I find to be pointless?

There's plenty of people who may want to argue the finer points of analogies as a means of sculpting out the perfect metaphor, and argue about how mold spores would have been a far better example than my ham-fisted attempt at dragging jellyfish into the mix. I'm not one of those people. I use analogies to make a point. Not to draw 1:1 parallels between disparate concepts, and then discuss the stupid little nooks and crannies of the metaphor itself.

Earlier it was pointed out to me, as an actual rebuttal, that jellyfish seem to be driven by purpose. That kind of crap is totally beside the point and I, frankly, don't give a tiny rat's ass about the consciousness of a jellyfish, or lack thereof, beyond mild idle curiosity. Jellyfish was just the first mindless creature I thought of.



I actually once, right here in this very forum, allowed myself to get dragged into a discussion over the fact that a mustard seed is not the actual smallest seed in the world. These days, I'd just as soon let other people have fun with those conversations and I'll just sit them out.




Most of the time.

I mean, reason, reasoning is the entire point to me.

Well I gave you my reasoning. You didn't buy it. I saw no reason to continue, since I failed (and still fail) to see any practical value to further debate my sense of morality behind the subject at hand.

 

[Larry Gude]

Disengaging from a conversation that I find to be pointless? .

By all means.

 

[kwillia]

IMO everything is a series of quantum fluctuations... "Energy can neither be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed."


There is a visible, recordable, burst of energy at the exact moment of conception in a petri dish. That flash of energy is the beginning of a potentially new life.

When a life ends, the life form no longer retains energy.

Some call it science at work others attribute it to the handiwork of their god.

For me, the complete turnoff of any and all organized religions is their design to segregate and be used as justification for domination of other factions. The one thing all religions have in common is each and every one of them were created and defined by humans as a way to justify power and authority over others. It's how we formed our societies as we evolved. Nature at it's finest. Other species form societies too.

 

[Larry Gude]

IMO everything is a series of quantum fluctuations... "Energy can neither be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed."


There is a visible, recordable, burst of energy at the exact moment of conception in a petri dish. That flash of energy is the beginning of a potentially new life.

When a life ends, the life form no longer retains energy.

Some call it science at work others attribute it to the handiwork of their god.

For me, the complete turnoff of any and all organized religions is their design to segregate and be used as justification for domination of other factions. The one thing all religions have in common is each and every one of them were created and defined by humans as a way to justify power and authority over others. It's how we formed our societies as we evolved. Nature at it's finest. Other species form societies too.

:

 

[Toxick]

By all means.

Funny that I was finally starting to enjoy this conversation.

 

[Larry Gude]

Funny that I was finally starting to enjoy this conversation.

Now you're just playing hard to get.

 

[vraiblonde]

I actually once, right here in this very forum, allowed myself to get dragged into a discussion over the fact that a mustard seed is not the actual smallest seed in the world. These days, I'd just as soon let other people have fun with those conversations and I'll just sit them out.

But...but...then the other person wins.

 

[This_person]

IMO everything is a series of quantum fluctuations... "Energy can neither be created or destroyed. It can only be transformed."

E=MCC

Mass and energy are interchangeable.

There is a visible, recordable, burst of energy at the exact moment of conception in a petri dish. That flash of energy is the beginning of a potentially new life.

When a life ends, the life form no longer retains energy.

Some call it science at work others attribute it to the handiwork of their god.

What do you say?

For me, the complete turnoff of any and all organized religions is their design to segregate and be used as justification for domination of other factions.

Please elaborate.

The one thing all religions have in common is each and every one of them were created and defined by humans as a way to justify power and authority over others. It's how we formed our societies as we evolved. Nature at it's finest. Other species form societies too.

So, other species "created" religions? Link, please.

 

[kwillia]

E=MCC Mass and energy are interchangeable.

What do you say?

Please elaborate.

So, other species "created" religions? Link, please.

1)There are different forms of energy, but you know that so stop. I'm not going to bite your bait.

2) The videos are fascinating. Go see for yourself.

3) Religion was created by man for man as a form of finding comfort in the unexplainable as well as instilling law and fear of retribution for failing to obey.

4) I said humans develop the theories of religions and that played a huge part in the formation of the unique societies on our planet. Nowhere did I say that we know if other species have equivalent theories of religions, but I did say that other species most certainly have societies of their own and within species they have unique societies based on geographical territory and other "cultural" variations.

 

[This_person]

2) The videos are fascinating. Go see for yourself.

Science or God?

3) Religion was created by man for man as a form of finding comfort in the unexplainable as well as instilling law and fear of retribution for failing to obey.

4) I said humans develop the theories of religions and that played a huge part in the formation of the unique societies on our planet. Nowhere did I say that we know if other species have equivalent theories of religions, but I did say that other species most certainly have societies of their own and within species they have unique societies based on geographical territory and other "cultural" variations.

So, humans form social groups and created gods; if animals did the same with social groups, doesn't it stand to reason that they generated religions also? Mankind created, per your theory, multiple religions. Given we are but one of innumerable species, either we didn't "create" religions or Occam's Razor says other species are religious as well.

 

[Wishbone]

Not being Dr. Doolittle I can't say for certain what animals perspective on religion, however I do know my Vacuum Cleaner puts the fear of God into my Mals.

 

[kwillia]

Science or God?

Yes. It's there... call it what you will... call it Fred if you want.

So, humans form social groups and created gods; if animals did the same with social groups, doesn't it stand to reason that they generated religions also? Mankind created, per your theory, multiple religions. Given we are but one of innumerable species, either we didn't "create" religions or Occam's Razor says other species are religious as well.

First, it's not "my" theory, but rather fact that religions originated with "hey some deity told me... and now I'm going to convince you to trust what I'm telling you...".

Second, a society is a group involved in persistent social interaction, or a large social grouping sharing the same geographical or social territory, typically subject to the same authority and dominant cultural expectations. Societies are characterized by patterns of relationships (social relations) between individuals who share a distinctive culture and institutions; a given society may be described as the sum total of such relationships among its constituent members. In the social sciences, a larger society often evinces stratification or dominance patterns in subgroups. It isn't theory that other species have societies because through objective scientific observation it's been proven and documented many times over.

The definition of religion is a particular system of faith and worship of a controlling power. Until we can ask other species specific questions of what they understand about the universe and why it works the way it does we have no way to reach a definitive conclusion of their specific thinking and that leaves us with theory such as Occam's Razor.

 

[This_person]

Yes. It's there... call it what you will... call it Fred if you want.

What do YOU call it?

First, it's not "my" theory, but rather fact that religions originated with "hey some deity told me... and now I'm going to convince you to trust what I'm telling you...".

Oh, I was not aware it was a "fact". I thought it was an "opinion". Can you link me to the proof of the fact?

Second, a society is a group involved in persistent social interaction, or a large social grouping sharing the same geographical or social territory, typically subject to the same authority and dominant cultural expectations. Societies are characterized by patterns of relationships (social relations) between individuals who share a distinctive culture and institutions; a given society may be described as the sum total of such relationships among its constituent members. In the social sciences, a larger society often evinces stratification or dominance patterns in subgroups. It isn't theory that other species have societies because through objective scientific observation it's been proven and documented many times over.

The definition of religion is a particular system of faith and worship of a controlling power. Until we can ask other species specific questions of what they understand about the universe and why it works the way it does we have no way to reach a definitive conclusion of their specific thinking and that leaves us with theory such as Occam's Razor.

Interesting...So, if I can't ask a Chinese person (since I don't speak Mandarin), I cannot reach any conclusions based on observations of their culture?

 

[This_person]

3) Religion was created by man for man as a form of finding comfort in the unexplainable as well as instilling law and fear of retribution for failing to obey.

I was actually hoping you would elaborate on your claim "For me, the complete turnoff of any and all organized religions is their design to segregate and be used as justification for domination of other factions."

You simply restated your opinion. Can you tell me from where this opinion originates? Or, if you have proof of this opinion?

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I bow to your superior intellect. Help me learn. Show me the peer-reviewed, repeatable study that started with no time, space, or material and generated a universe. Find that too impossible? Show me the peer-reviewed, repeatable study that demonstrated how chemicals mixed in water became alive.

Wait, you can't do that? You simply believe it's what happened because....you have faith that science will prove it happened some day? Or, you believe the observable evidence suggests it could be true? Those things are called guesses, and are as logical and proven as (wait for it) any other religion.

That you can't defend your faith, and refuse to accept it as faith, it the sign of a bigoted zealot. As a Christian, I'll tell you right up front I ain't got one shred of proof, it's just what I believe based on my higher-cognitive intuition skills that separate me from the animal you believe you are.

If you have something, bring it. Otherwise, you're all bluster and no substance, like any other uneducated bigot you despise who inaccurately and with no education spouts crap they think they know from any religion in the world.

You have yet to leave the realm of nonsense.

This time you choose to parrot the favorite logical fallacy of simpleminded christian apologists, namely ‘argumentum ad ignorantium’.

The proposition that your god – or any god for that matter – is responsible for the origin of the universe, or life, is not made true - or even more likely true - by virtue of the fact that it has not yet been proven false.

Science, contrary to what your deluded brain may be telling you, has no interest in refuting the possibility that your god, or any other god for that matter, is the ‘creator’ of the universe. Science ignores religion for good reason. Religion has no relevancy in the study of the natural world and the universe.

You are ignored, similarly, because you display a penchant for logical fallacy and christian pseudoscience. Again, can't you be more original than that? Hint...try using your brain, rather than letting your brain use you.

 

[This_person]

You have yet to leave the realm of nonsense.

This time you choose to parrot the favorite logical fallacy of simpleminded christian apologists, namely ‘argumentum ad ignorantium’.

The proposition that your god – or any god for that matter – is responsible for the origin of the universe, or life, is not made true - or even more likely true - by virtue of the fact that it has not yet been proven false.

Science, contrary to what your deluded brain may be telling you, has no interest in refuting the possibility that your god, or any other god for that matter, is the ‘creator’ of the universe. Science ignores religion for good reason. Religion has no relevancy in the study of the natural world and the universe.

You are ignored, similarly, because you display a penchant for logical fallacy and christian pseudoscience. Again, can't you be more original than that? Hint...try using your brain, rather than letting your brain use you.

I never claimed my religion is made true, or any other. Read what I wrote - I said the exact opposite.

I am trying to discuss whether belief in the scientific method demonstrates the ability to to prove itself, and I demonstrated that it does not.

Show me up. Show me the proof.