ylexot
Super Genius
This thread is for discussing that steaming pile.Racingwolf said:
Bush to Seek $80B for Iraq, Afghan Wars
- Thread starter Racingwolf
- Start date
Railroad
Routinely Derailed
Come on now, RW, the President didn't call all those shots - you know that. And the cleanup effort, if actually needed that badly, should have started long ago - before the first President Bush.Racingwolf said:And for that matter, why are we not spending it here on homeland security? oh i forgot, we had to use some of that money for Bush's inaguration!!!! Don't tell me to leave the country because I see what the crazy man in the white house is doing and you dont!!!!
Actually, more than a few Democrats threatened to leave the country and move to Canada if Mr. Bush were re-elected. The Canadian Immigration dept. (or whatever they call it) reported a large number of applications shortly after the election. So although a Republican just suggested it to you, apparently a number of Democrats had already thought about it and acted on it.
I'm surprised by the high degree of anger coming through in a lot of posts from Democrats in particular, but a few Republicans as well. I would think we'd all realize that the election, like the Civil War, is over. It is now time to do the best we can with the outcome.
Mikeinsmd
New Member
Liberals sure are good at name calling. I said if you don't like it here, leave. And I can see that not enough money was spent on your education "kids get a better deducation". You're not going to slash my tires are you??Racingwolf said:Well arent you the idiot!!! You get so defensive that you need to tell someone to leave the country over it!!! Grow up!!!! Like you said I have a right to my opinion and spending over 200 billion on a war that should not have been should be making more people mad than just me. Why are we not spending this money to help everyone get insurance, why are we not spending it to help our kids get a better deducation, why are we not spending it in our country to reduce the crime rate. And for that matter, why are we not spending it here on homeland security? oh i forgot, we had to use some of that money for Bush's inaguration!!!! Don't tell me to leave the country because I see what the crazy man in the white house is doing and you dont!!!!
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Racingwolf
New Member
Railroad said:
There is nothing I can do about the election, but it really pissses me off when I see the world going to crap and we do nothing about it. Do any of you have a 401k? Take a look at it and see how it is doing! And I dont see it getting any better either!! Read the latest reports on our Environment. I dont see it getting any better (and i am not a tree hugger). I dont see where we are leaving our kids any kind of future at all!! What do our kids have to look forward to? Why dont we spend the money here in our country to protect it. Why do we not have better security on our borders? Why do we not check all of the ship board containers coming into this country ever day? This is just a few things that we could spend that money on. I am all for helping our military get better equipment, which Bush didnt do, untill he got hammered on it. I dont have a problem if that is where the money is going, but spending our money to rebuild Iraq is not something that sits well with me. Sell their oil to rebuild their country, dont use OURmoney to do it!!!
Railroad
Routinely Derailed
You sure can pack a lot into one paragraph!Racingwolf said:
Okay, I'll try to answer some of these (some are rhetorical).
My 401K is doing fine. Sorry if yours isn't, it's all a matter of the choices made when you set it up.
I don't know about your kids, but mine are each putting themselves through college, living on their own. My son has a job with one of the defense contractors and my daughter works for a local retail store. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication, but they are succeeding. They, too, are looking at the long term. They are too busy between work and school to do much else, but they are both registered Republicans and they vote.
Although it may seem to you that our borders could be better protected (and they can to a degree), it is simply not feasible to make our security systems 100% effective. As far as inspecting every container that enters our airports and ports every day is concerned, the volume of traffic coming and going is staggering and beyond our capability to inspect. It just can't be done.
Mr. Bush wasn't spending more on the military before he was slammed because the Democrat predecessors cut spending and objectives down, and there is a lingering mentality from those days that the Defense budget is where to cut your costs whenever a belt needs to be tightened.
I can understand your view with regard to the rebuilding costs in Iraq, but here we must agree to disagree. I think it's not practical for Iraq to get the kind of income they need right now to rebuild. Shoot, it's a wonder their oil workers are reporting to work (are they?) with things being in such turmoil. And selling oil, just like selling anything, involves contracts, negotiations, preparations, advance production, and the like - and all of those things take time; time and stability.
Hope these answer your questions!
*WHEW*
Mikeinsmd said:
I recall the use of the names "flip-flopper" and "Massachusetts liberal" during this campaign quite often. I think that name-calling comes with the territory of politics; it is something we can't blame solely on the other side.
As for this request...absolutely support it. It doesn't matter if you think that invading Iraq was the correct action to take (I happen to think that it was) or if you think that the war was based on downright lies (I don't; there may have been some glass "half-empty" statements, but saying that it was lies is a stretch), the fact remains that we are in Iraq now and our status in the world community is dependent upon that. Furthermore, we have troops in Iraq that are not properly armored or properly provided for and this $80 billion helps to fix that. If we are to leave Iraq, the view of our nation in the world will go even lower....not only do we become involved in other nation's business when we shouldn't (according to some nations, not my opinion), but we leave after creating a mess. Not only will our judgement be questioned, but so will our resolve if we pull out.
SmallTown
Football season!
Well actually, if you recall, during the campaign in 2000 Bush talked about military spending and how clinton really brought it down. But upon entering office, he was asked how he would boost military spending and he said he felt everything looked fine in terms of the dollar amounts. Of course that changed in 2001Mikeinsmd said:As they ALWAYS do!! Right on RR!!
Mikeinsmd
New Member
rraley said:
I agree Rick. I was referring to his calling me an idiot & Bush a liar. The two names above aren't as harsh as the latter. They are personal attacks. "flip-flopper" and "Massachusetts liberal" were used to describe the mans political views, not his personal character.
I would like to thank you for your intelligent and non-slanderous posts here. Although I don't think we agree too often, you are informed and astute. I look forward to reading all of your replies! 
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Railroad
Routinely Derailed
Indeed it did, indeed it did. But even an overnight appropriation of unheard of proportions couldn't have (at least not fast enough) made up for the years of letting the military dry on the vine.SmallTown said:
People tend to forget the military when things are peaceful, and they can't see the need to do upkeep, training, and technology refreshment when there's no major conflict going on. It's becoming a way of life to not train our troops and expect them to do increasingly technically sensitive jobs - with decreasing mentorship. It's becoming a way of life to continue to use old systems long past their wear-out date. Not realizing we are (still) sinking into pre-Pearl Harbor problems, cutting the budget will eventually cause needless deaths right here at home.
Sorry I got a little off topic, here!
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B
Bruzilla
Guest
Racingwolf said:
I guess I'll chip in too...
My 401K is doing great! Yes, everyone's 401Ks took a hit after 9/11, but most of them came right back. I lost about $3,000, but I was making about 12% before the attacks and was making between 20-28% last year. You might want to update your Democraftic talking points a bit.
I would agree with you that you don't see or hear about the environment getting any better, but you don't see or hear much about it getting any worse either. Despite all of the ranting from the Left that Bush was going to destory the environment, nothing has come to pass. Again, you might want to update those talking points.
Might I inquire as to how you would spend our money to better protect our borders? Are you going to wind shipping commerce down to a trickle by keeping ships outside our ports for weeks waiting to get inspected, and therby drastically increasing the prices of imported goods? And do all of this so that the bad guys can just fly their goods in, or use a small boat to bring them to shore? Who's the loser in that deal? How about paying for guards every five miles, so the bad guys can slip in between them. Ok, how about a guard every 50 feet, so the bad guys can just fly in over them. How about building a 20-ft tall wall all around the country, and hoping the bad guys can't find a 22-ft ladder? I think most educated people now realize that any defense you can devise can be overcome or circumvented... that's the nature of being on the offense. Again, you might want to update those talking points.
We would love to use Iraqi oil to pay for the rebuilding, but we can't. You on the Left made such a "Blood for Oil" ruckus that there's no way the US can do much of anything with that oil. You'all painted yourselves into a corner on that one.
Lastly, our military does have great equipment. It's funny, but I can't remember many Democrats yelling about how billions of dollars for spare parts, training, and logistics and improvements for existing systems, and new systems to replace obsolete equipment, were diverted to pay for Clinton's unbudgeted expeditions to Somalia, Haiti, the Balkens, etc. Those P-3s flying around Pax River were supposed to be replaced years ago, but the funding for the new plane kept getting diverted... until now. I spent 10 years in uniform, and was promised many things, but invincibility was never one of them. Troops go to war and some get killed. Expecting the President or SECDEF to take steps to ensure that our troops can't get killed is a bit rediculous.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
SmallTown said:
You misunderstand. I'm not saying the situations are similar, I'm saying they are the same. Pre-WWII Europe was every bit as divided and acrimonious as the Middle East is today, and for the same reasons. They had lots of little fifedoms whose leaders were always wanting more. How many hundreds of wars and skirmishes were fought over territory in Europe prior to WWII? Then things came to a head in WWI, the US stepped in and restored order, but then we goofed up and left, trusting the locals to abide by the agreements and treatys we left behind. We saw where that got us. After WWII we didn't pack up and leave, we stayed and made sure everybody behaved themselves until the mentality of the leaderships changed.
You're trying to measure modern-day Europe against the Middle East, and that's not a fair comparision. It will be someday, provided Bush and his successors keep the heat on the Middle East.
SmallTown
Football season!
<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2>SmallTown said:
likewise, dumbass