Calvert Shores: Petition for Municipality Referendum Gets GO

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

How long have you lived there? Successive Boards have tried to fix things, have tried to raise fees to fix things, for years, actually decades, and guys like you used the same arguments against doing anything then as you're using now about the proposed municipality. ####, y'all are still fighting about the gates which have been down for almost 25 years.

More than a few decades. Yes there has been problems. And have been supportive of the things necessary to remedy them. But instead of fully explaining the reasons why any certain thing needs to be done. Boards have just tried to roller coaster with a "because we said so" attitude rather fully disclosing in an understandable manner, to all concerned, to get the votes necessary to accomplish a project. But with a government, we'll still get roller coasted and a shaft in the rectum to boot. With a municipality, a minority voice will rule screwing over the majority. If the Board of POACRE, and their supporters, put as much effort into CRE as they are into getting a municipality, things most likely would have gotten done.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...More than a few decades. Yes there has been problems. And have been supportive of the things necessary to remedy them. But instead of fully explaining the reasons why any certain thing needs to be done. Boards have just tried to roller coaster with a "because we said so" attitude rather fully disclosing in an understandable manner, to all concerned, to get the votes necessary to accomplish a project. But with a government, we'll still get roller coasted and a shaft in the rectum to boot. With a municipality, a minority voice will rule screwing over the majority. If the Board of POACRE, and their supporters, put as much effort into CRE as they are into getting a municipality, things most likely would have gotten done.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled!" -- Mark Twain

It doesn't matter how much you explain to some people, they'll never get it.

It's funny that you say stuff wasn't explained. I live at the north end of the County and only got my information from newspaper articles and I understood what was being done.

 

[softtouch]

If the municipality is created after the November election, it won't have any money to operate as a city.
There won't be any tax money available until the following November.
It is also possible the POACRE may go bankrupt in July if most people stop paying their fees in anticipation of this thing passing.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If the municipality is created after the November election, it won't have any money to operate as a city.
There won't be any tax money available until the following November.
It is also possible the POACRE may go bankrupt in July if most people stop paying their fees in anticipation of this thing passing.

There will be a transition period. I would think the municipality would come into being July 1 with the fiscal year (I don't know what's in the proposal documents) so it might be the next July (actually September or so when the first tax payments are received).

There is no municipality until the vote, or afterwards whenever the establishment date is, so the POA fees would still be due.

If the POA is that close to bankruptcy then that right there is an issue.

 

[officeguy]

If I may ...
It seems you two have already had a few Dixie cups of the cool aid. Either you can't see, or just ignore, the attempted power grab being created. The business of being in other peoples business is just fine for you? Instead of the POA putting to a vote of fixing the things that need fixing and adding or increasing fees, if this municipality goes through, it will be forced on to those living here, not just in CRE but expanded outside the boundaries of CRE to commercial areas. And what has the board of directors been up to during this push for a municipality? Doing their elected jobs? No. They are giving the residents the run-a-around attempting to create a living, breathing, destructive government to freedoms and rights, a mini Montgomery County under the guise of helping the community.

You must be a real treasure in a community meeting.

The city will do whatever the democratically elected council decides to do. If you want a say in what happens, get yourself elected to city council. Its not hard, go around, campaign, make a coherent argument on how limited you want the powers of the city to be. The POA board gets elected by a minority of lot owners, it is not likely that the voters will select the same people.

 

[officeguy]

There will be a transition period. I would think the municipality would come into being July 1 with the fiscal year (I don't know what's in the proposal documents) so it might be the next July (actually September or so when the first tax payments are received).

By the charter, the city has the power to incur debts. Many of the sources of city income such as shares in road tax and income tax come from the state and will start paying once the place comes into existence. With those payments being quite predictable, I have no doubt that the city will be able to get a line of credit to pay expenses during the startup phase.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

By the charter, the city has the power to incur debts. Many of the sources of city income such as shares in road tax and income tax come from the state and will start paying once the place comes into existence. With those payments being quite predictable, I have no doubt that the city will be able to get a line of credit to pay expenses during the startup phase.

Well the road tax (Highway User Revenue, HUR) isn't all that predictable any longer. Over his eight years O'Malley cut it by 95% from the last year of the Ehrlich Administration. Hogan has restored it to about 30% of that but it was a struggle last year to get that done. Not so much because of Legislative opposition (there was some) but because in addition to restoring HUR he also committed to paying back all the money "borrowed" from the Highway Trust Fund by O'Malley, I don't remember how much that was but it was on the order of a few billion. As a note he also committed to pay back the billion dollars plus O'Malley "borrowed" from the State Retirement system.

You'd think the income tax transfers would be a lot, but they're really not. Remember the State and County both dip their beaks first before the municipality gets anything. O'Malley also cut those transfers as well as State Aid to Police Services. North Beach got about $80K from that. It was cut to $5K.

 

[softtouch]

The POA receives the highway user revenue and also qualifies for FEMA. This is nothing new, as a result of being a special tax district.
I can't see where the municipality has much governing responsibility until the POA's property, assets and equipment and hopefully employees are legally transferred over.
A year sounds like a reasonable phase in period. Sounds better than some kind of hostile take over method with lots of legal wrangling.
The method for legally disbanding the POA should be explored. Rather than leaving it hanging around.
Starting off the city by going into debt sounds like a lousy idea to me. A lot of cities succumb to that temptation with bad results.
One good thing about the POA is it can't spend money it doesn't have in hand. No debt.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

The POA board gets elected by a minority of lot owners, it is not likely that the voters will select the same people.

And you can bet that same minority of voters will be pretty much electing the same people for this municipality.

They don't even have a semblance of a budget. They say, wait and see what services there might be before we can figure an actual budget. This fiasco is the same as the ACA, you have to vote for the municipality before you find out how much you are going to get screwed.

 

[officeguy]

And you can bet that same minority of voters will be pretty much electing the same people for this municipality.

That's a bet I would take. While the same people may show up on the city council or in employed city positions, the voters will likely not be the same.

Some voters on the POA election are not residents of Calvert Shores and wont be able to vote in a general election. Also, voting in a POA election requires one to either give a proxy or participate in mail-in voting or show up at the meeting. If the elections for city council coincide with the general election, all it requires is filling out an extra ballot. Also, renters and folks who live in a home owned by a family member will be voters in the city election yet they are not able to vote in the POA election.

It won't be the same voters. Maybe the same candidates. Maybe the same people on the board.

They don't even have a semblance of a budget. They say, wait and see what services there might be before we can figure an actual budget. This fiasco is the same as the ACA, you have to vote for the municipality before you find out how much you are going to get screwed.

The numbers going into the ACA were known beforehand and the analyses were deliberately falsified to get it passed.

The budget of a non-existent city is difficult to predict. The only thing you can know at this point is how much it costs to maintain the streets to the level of neglect the POA is maintaining.
The nice thing with starting this city is that they can phase in the spending of money as the revenue stream starts to come in. The Calvert sheriffs dept. will continue to patrol the town and respond to emergencies. Only if money is available, the city can start phasing in additional police coverage, e.g. by contracting with the SD for additional deputies (I dont see them setting up a free-standing department. La Plata is about as small of an agency anyone would want to have, and they have a staff of 15. Calvert Shores won't have a Walmart or public housing, so I doubt there is enough critical mass to set up an entire agency).

 

[officeguy]

The POA receives the highway user revenue and also qualifies for FEMA. This is nothing new, as a result of being a special tax district.
I can't see where the municipality has much governing responsibility until the POA's property, assets and equipment and hopefully employees are legally transferred over.
A year sounds like a reasonable phase in period. Sounds better than some kind of hostile take over method with lots of legal wrangling.
The method for legally disbanding the POA should be explored. Rather than leaving it hanging around.

It is the same people who run the POA who are driving incorporation of the city. Unless that congruence of interest breaks apart, I dont see a reason why there should be any wrangling.

Now there are a couple of ways how this can go sideways:

- does the POA board have the legal authority to dispose of the assets of the POA. E.g. are they able to sign deeds to sign over all the parcels to the city or would this require a POA wide election ?

- when is the next POA election ? Could there be a hostile takeover of the POA board (e.g. by the LightlyRoasted faction) somewhere between today and day 1 of the city charter taking effect. Could such a hostile POA board derail the transition process. Voter participation in POACRE elections is minimal, a coalition of non-resident lot owners could easily wrestle control from the current pro-incorporation board.

- could the first general election create a city council that doesn't actually want to move forward with assuming the liabilities of owning the streets etc. Could they 'play city' without ever moving forward to acquiring the assets and making the investments to move the town forward.

Starting off the city by going into debt sounds like a lousy idea to me. A lot of cities succumb to that temptation with bad results.

There is only so much debt you can run up in the first year of operation. The cities that go broke over debt usually do so by incurring pension obligations or large debt for capital projects. Municipalities are pretty low-risk when it comes to credit. The moment the charter is in effect, the city will be eligible to collect property taxes. While they won't get payments from day one, the funding stream is a function of assessed value (which is known) and mill rate.

 

[exnodak]

This is a very informative and constructive thread. Thank you to NorthBeachPerso and Officeguy for the dialogue.

The detractors of the municipal effort do not seem to be able to come up with anything more than an emotional argument. Without getting into the weeds , it is obvious and easy arithmetic to see the fiscal advantages of incorporation for the entire community. The arithmetic arguments in support of incorporation have been fairly well articulated in the above thread in a big picture way. The opposition to those arguments has been visceral and demeaning and without substantive basis of fact.

The most disturbing of the visceral attacks is against the Treasurer of POACRE and the POACRE Board itself for supporting incorporation. They, more than anyone alive, know the futility of trying to keep the HOA afloat as is. They are charged with doing what is right for the community and the POACRE corporation and that is what they are doing. To do otherwise would be acting negligently. Name calling and personal attacks are simply stupid. 2300 signatures of POACRE residents pretty well sums up the public sentiment supporting the effort, so they are following a community mandate.

There is absolutely nothing in the municipal incorporation vision that suggests POACRE would be forced to dissolve due to the incorporation. POACRE is on that path all be itself. However, one real possibility is that if the Municipality could step in to take over the roads and any other municipal function, which is POACRE's biggest burden, the HOA may be able to recover enough to effectively support its amenities.

The incorporation process requires that a public hearing be held and a report be submitted to the BOCCC which will include a transcript of the hearing along with the committee's financial analysis. When that is published it will be fair game for commentary and political punditry.

To suggest the committee is operating in a vacuum would be a great mistake. Also to say that the committee is entirely POACRE hacks is also a great mistake. And, yes there are plenty of professionals helping the committee including but not limited to the Maryland Municipal League and several Maryland municipalities which have opened a dialogue with the committee. The County Attorney, Finance Officer, and Planning and Zoning officer are all now officially appointed as liaisons to the committee and will be meeting with them regularly.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

This is a very informative and constructive thread. Thank you to NorthBeachPerso and Officeguy for the dialogue.

The detractors of the municipal effort do not seem to be able to come up with anything more than an emotional argument. Without getting into the weeds , it is obvious and easy arithmetic to see the fiscal advantages of incorporation for the entire community. The arithmetic arguments in support of incorporation have been fairly well articulated in the above thread in a big picture way. The opposition to those arguments has been visceral and demeaning and without substantive basis of fact.

The most disturbing of the visceral attacks is against the Treasurer of POACRE and the POACRE Board itself for supporting incorporation. They, more than anyone alive, know the futility of trying to keep the HOA afloat as is. They are charged with doing what is right for the community and the POACRE corporation and that is what they are doing. To do otherwise would be acting negligently. Name calling and personal attacks are simply stupid. 2300 signatures of POACRE residents pretty well sums up the public sentiment supporting the effort, so they are following a community mandate.

There is absolutely nothing in the municipal incorporation vision that suggests POACRE would be forced to dissolve due to the incorporation. POACRE is on that path all be itself. However, one real possibility is that if the Municipality could step in to take over the roads and any other municipal function, which is POACRE's biggest burden, the HOA may be able to recover enough to effectively support its amenities.

The incorporation process requires that a public hearing be held and a report be submitted to the BOCCC which will include a transcript of the hearing along with the committee's financial analysis. When that is published it will be fair game for commentary and political punditry.

To suggest the committee is operating in a vacuum would be a great mistake. Also to say that the committee is entirely POACRE hacks is also a great mistake. And, yes there are plenty of professionals helping the committee including but not limited to the Maryland Municipal League and several Maryland municipalities which have opened a dialogue with the committee. The County Attorney, Finance Officer, and Planning and Zoning officer are all now officially appointed as liaisons to the committee and will be meeting with them regularly.

So exnodak, aka George Hanson? Chesapeake Water Company person?, anyone who argues against the creation of a new, additional government, is just arguing emotionally? No one is viscerally attacking anyone, let alone the POACRE treasurer, other than to point out the hypocrisy and the inherent conflict of interest. Since the beginning of talk to creating a new municipality began was the beginning of the "game for commentary and political punditry". We all know your allegiance to the creation of a municipality and your legal fight (lost) against the HOA. Your mind can not be changed. However, getting the word out as to why it is a bad idea to those that will vote, for or against this, will happen, regardless of the way you think it should be presented.

 

[exnodak]

No, just anybody that argues emotionally without substance or fact is not doing anything but making noise. So far, all I see in opposition is noise. Opinion is OK, but an opinion based on emotion is not good argument. If someone could develop a scenario to demonstrate how forming a municipality to provide needed local services is a bad thing by using numbers instead of vitriol, I will listen. If its rational, I will accept it. If its true, I will adopt it. So far...nada.

 

[officeguy]

Your mind can not be changed. However, getting the word out as to why it is a bad idea to those that will vote, for or against this, will happen, regardless of the way you think it should be presented.

You haven't really made a coherent argument against incorporation beyond 'all government is bad', 'we don't want a mini MoCo' and 'I dont like that treasurer woman'. Neither of those will garner you many followers.

 

[exnodak]

There is a long list of taxes paid by CRE residents that are traditionally shared with municipalities: Property Taxes, Income Taxes, and Highway User Revenues are just 3. These are taxes paid by CRE residents but with no benefit being brought back to this community. Only a municipal government can recapture the local share of these taxes. This stream creates revenues for the community with absolutely ZERO out of pocket increase for an individual tax payer.

The SHUR agreement with Calvert County is pretty much a failed document. Even at full funding (before OMalley) there was almost no distribution as the contract was a "may distribute" instead of "shall distribute" burden on the County.

With the restoration of funds by recent legislative action County's and Municipal governments are funded from two different accounts so the County will not "lose" any money out of this stream.

Municipal share of State income tax will be directed to Calvert Shores. This is not a small number and residents only have to enter the Calvert Shores code on their State Income tax return so the money comes home. This neither increases or decreases your tax burden. Not only that, but CRE has tons of rentals that do not support the infrastructure of the community. By becoming a municipality the renters will be contributing to their place of residency through their income taxes by simply entering the right residency code.

Property tax differential is difficult to determine but I'm sure the committee will be able to come up with a reasonable solution. They have good numbers to work with and plenty of models to review. The municipal set off is supposed to be based on a determination of services rendered. Once the committee determines the level of services for the basic government, they only have to plug in the numbers and run the model. I have no idea if at the end of the day the proposed differential will resemble North Beach or Chesapeake Beaches' formula, and it may not be necessary anyway.

To those trying to calculate an estimation for comparison I can tell you that the planners are expecting that the Roads fee and STD will disappear leaving only the M&O fees for the POACRE amenities. POACRE will NOT be dissolved nor should it be. POACRE holds title "in fee simple" for all those properties that are amenities and open space lots. EACH property owner in CRE has a vested equity interest in those properties and the money to purchase them was confiscated by the original POACRE Board by and through the Covenants of 1989. It is difficult to believe that forming a Municipality would allow dissolution of the management of those assets.

The bottom line is that this community has been operating on a budget of about 2.8 Million/yr for the last twenty years. Without one dime additional 'out of pocket' tax or fee, revenues dedicated to the maintenance and improvement of the quality of life in this community would more than double. That is NOT including any potential grant income that may be applied for.

The option for additional service is always open and the codicil is that any additional services would require additional income through taxation. That is just life. If you don't want more taxation just don't ask for more service.

Over the years it has been nearly impossible for this community in the past to sway the BOCC to expend revenues in this community even though it is one of the most densely populated areas in the County. A municipality would negate the need for us to go to the County for State and Federal project financing. Securing State and Federal low interest loans and grants creates a stream of money that will run through the City treasury and be spent on goods and services provided largely by Calvert County vendors. That money will eventually contribute to the County treasury in no small quantity.

Real Property in CRE has been discounted below average market for years largely due to the neglect of our local political leaders and the inability of POACRE to manage itself. Decay is setting in and there are nearly 500 empty homes in the community. Comparing real estate in CRE with similar properties in nearby municipal communities there is a more than 10% difference. If by virtue of having a municipal government that provided even minimal local service the property values increased by only 5%, the County would more than double the revenues it may sacrifice through its creation. Admittedly that is a defacto tax increase, but those dollars would come back many times over at the point of sale.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may inject about the Tax Differential. I have the feeling that the new municipality would get the same as the existing Towns. The reason being that the accounting can get complicated and it would likely to be to the advantage of them.

Commissioner Clarke several years ago tried to eliminate the differential. The Towns then went through the exercise of having to justify it. When the shouting was over it turned out that it should have been greater, not less, with North Beach providing more services than Chesapeake Beach. That should have meant our differential should have been more than Chesapeake Beach's, as it was at one time.

Anyway, the move to eliminate it died that day. Jerry is no longer a Commissioner and the current Board is very amenable and willing to cooperate with the two Towns.

I would certainly encourage the North Beach Town Council to not meddle in the Chesapeake Shores differential if it's the same as the others.

 

[exnodak]

NorthBeachPerson: I agree. But, on day 1 it is nearly impossible to make a financial forecast as to where that level will eventually find itself. It will be a high/low waterline kind of developing number. The Organizing Committee can make promises but has no authority to act on them leaving the problem to eventually be worked out between the new City council and the County. A forecast will however be made as required by the incorporation process. So far, I'm not a part of that deliberation and should reserve my commentary accordingly.

That all being said, I also agree that it would be politically expedient and fiscally wise for the County to simply offer the same differential for starters and hope that it just sticks. But, its pretty safe to say that I won't be at that table and my opinion is pretty meaningless at this point.

 

[Baywatchv8]

If I may ...Right now, the very people that have been elected by the property owners, are the ones pushing for the municipality. A serious conflict of interest. Take Kathy Zumbrun, the POACRE Treasurer, also on the 2016 ballot to be re-elected treasurer, just also happens to be the chair of the Municipality organization committee. The very people that are supposed to be looking out for the POA are backstabbing the people they are supposed to represent. Instead of working within the framework they have, they are looking for an easy way out. I imagine as well that she will have a very handsome pay package with the municipality should this fiasco come to fruition. Also, take a look over at George Hanson, a charter committee member, and the Chesapeake Water Company. George just hates CRE, however, his water company will profit handsomely as well when it is taken over (or regulated?) by the municipality. Absolutely nothing is altruistic here and everyone involved is suspect as to their involvement. And who is paying for all the effort involved in this push? The flyers? Banners? Letters? etc.

If you want to see who will be part of this new government, click here. These are the people, in addition to those behind the scenes, who will profit at the expense of those in this "new municipality".

Is this how you feel or is it what you can prove?

"I imagine as well that she will have a very handsome pay package with the municipality should this fiasco come to fruition."

Or this?

"Also, take a look over at George Hanson, a charter committee member, and the Chesapeake Water Company. George just hates CRE, however, his water company will profit handsomely as well when it is taken over (or regulated?) by the municipality."

Or are these just attempts at character assignation on your part?

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Is this how you feel or is it what you can prove? "I imagine as well that she will have a very handsome pay package with the municipality should this fiasco come to fruition." Or this? "Also, take a look over at George Hanson, a charter committee member, and the Chesapeake Water Company. George just hates CRE, however, his water company will profit handsomely as well when it is taken over (or regulated?) by the municipality." Or are these just attempts at character assignation on your part?

Character assassination? It's what I perceive. Has exnodak (George Hanson?) yet disputed the claims about the water company and how it stands to possibly profit? Has Kathy Zumbrun come on here and disputed and said that she will not seek any position with the municipality? That she just wants to better her community? Just today, I read in the Recorder that the president of POACRE wants to run for Mayor. Now how about that? There is perceived corruption going on here before the government is even born.

So exnodak, explain why the municipality boundaries were made smaller such as on Little Cove Point Rd eliminating properties not served by the water company. Explain why the boundaries expand past that of CRE if you only want to fix the the issues with CRE?