Camera speed ticket received

3

3CATSAILOR

Well-Known Member
My brother showed me a copy of his camera speed ticket that he received in Charles County. There are some things that I wonder about when looking at it. First, it is in black and white; although it does say you can go on line at their web site and view the vehicle in color. It seems to me it would be easy for a cheap "photo shop" software to edit and change the black and white or on line color photos to anything they want. Second, The second to the last digit of the his license plate in the picture is not readable. Third, are speed cameras calibrated every day like the police do with their patrol car radar? Of course not. If one is required to be calibrated by not the other? 4th, it says you can contest it, but there will be "unspecified court costs". 5th, the supposed school zone any where to be seen. When you research it, you can find one on a nearby road that appears to be more than 500 feet away. 6th, the area of Leonardtown Road and Grace Christ Road does not appear to be marked as a school zone? 7th, it offers the ability to pay at what may be a unsecure web site. - http://www.public.cite-web.com. And most interesting, it says you can send a payment to a "Post Office Box.

But, most important in any automated enforcement, it tells you are guilty and requires you to prove you are innocent. And since when are law enforcement functions allowed to be "contracted out"? Since they found they can make money from it?
 
Roman

Roman

Active Member
If you think those radar guns are calibrated every day, think again. But I have to be honest, it's been years since I was with LE, so maybe things have changed.
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
3CATSAILOR said:
My brother showed me a copy of his camera speed ticket that he received in Charles County. There are some things that I wonder about when looking at it. First, it is in black and white; although it does say you can go on line at their web site and view the vehicle in color. It seems to me it would be easy for a cheap "photo shop" software to edit and change the black and white or on line color photos to anything they want. Second, The second to the last digit of the his license plate in the picture is not readable. Third, are speed cameras calibrated every day like the police do with their patrol car radar? Of course not. If one is required to be calibrated by not the other? 4th, it says you can contest it, but there will be "unspecified court costs". 5th, the supposed school zone any where to be seen. When you research it, you can find one on a nearby road that appears to be more than 500 feet away. 6th, the area of Leonardtown Road and Grace Christ Road does not appear to be marked as a school zone? 7th, it offers the ability to pay at what may be a unsecure web site. - http://www.public.cite-web.com. And most interesting, it says you can send a payment to a "Post Office Box.

But, most important in any automated enforcement, it tells you are guilty and requires you to prove you are innocent. And since when are law enforcement functions allowed to be "contracted out"? Since they found they can make money from it?
Click to expand...

Lots to cover.

1 and 2. Usually the image you see on the website is much larger, in color, and higher resolution. Things you cannot clearly see in the printed image are quite clear in the online one. They make enough and the penalties and effort to shop them not worth it.

3. Machines are legally required to do a self check every day, and that self check is required to be verified and logged. Good luck getting those records though, and getting the court to care if you do.

4. don't know. Maybe it might cost more if you put up a more spirited defense and the county has to spend more defending, and then you lose?

5. You mean at the Grace Christ Acadamey private school? The law does not say they have to be public schools.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.571...tIDOcUcId6Z4wUkbHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

http://www.ccso.us/automated-speed-enforcement-program/

"Route 5 near Billingsley Road, in front of Grace Christian Academy of Maryland"

6. Both the mailing address and the website belong to the private vendor operating the system.

7. The law says it may be contracted.
 
dave1959

dave1959

Active Member
3CATSAILOR said:
My brother showed me a copy of his camera speed ticket that he received in Charles County. There are some things that I wonder about when looking at it. First, it is in black and white; although it does say you can go on line at their web site and view the vehicle in color. It seems to me it would be easy for a cheap "photo shop" software to edit and change the black and white or on line color photos to anything they want. Second, The second to the last digit of the his license plate in the picture is not readable. Third, are speed cameras calibrated every day like the police do with their patrol car radar? Of course not. If one is required to be calibrated by not the other? 4th, it says you can contest it, but there will be "unspecified court costs". 5th, the supposed school zone any where to be seen. When you research it, you can find one on a nearby road that appears to be more than 500 feet away. 6th, the area of Leonardtown Road and Grace Christ Road does not appear to be marked as a school zone? 7th, it offers the ability to pay at what may be a unsecure web site. - http://www.public.cite-web.com. And most interesting, it says you can send a payment to a "Post Office Box. But, most important in any automated enforcement, it tells you are guilty and requires you to prove you are innocent. And since when are law enforcement functions allowed to be "contracted out"? Since they found they can make money from it?
Click to expand...



what about the conversation of ... Don't speed and you won't get a ticket..
 
R

rhenderson

Guest
3CATSAILOR said:
But, most important in any automated enforcement, it tells you are guilty and requires you to prove you are innocent.
Click to expand...

They don't say you are guilty. They are showing you the basic evidence that will be presented against you in court. YOU have the choice of paying the established fine or contesting the charge in court. Its the same with a speeding ticket given by a living LEO. If you do not contest the charge - the court will find you guilty based on the evidence presented against you.


As for contracting out - the only restriction is that the contractor cannot be paid based on the number of tickets issued such as a percentage commission or a set fee per ticket issued. In Md. , I believe that the image/data is reviewed by an LEO before it is actually sent to the accused.
 
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RPMDAD

RPMDAD

Well-Known Member
Don't know about Charles, but in Calvert, i am pretty sure i read that the camera triggers at 12 mph over the posted limit. That is more than reasonable for me. In most school zones that would be 37 mph in a 25 mph or 42 mph in a 30 mph zone. It does not trigger at 3 - 5 mph over the limit.
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
Sadly, you have no real way to know if you were. The system should be calibrated, but you can't get those logs. If it were not a for profit system, you might have more confidence that it was accurate.....
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
rhenderson said:
They don't say you are guilty. They are showing you the basic evidence that will be presented against you in court. YOU have the choice of paying the established fine or contesting the charge in court. Its the same with a speeding ticket given by a living LEO. If you do not contest the charge - the court will find you guilty based on the evidence presented against you.


As for contracting out - the only restriction is that the contractor cannot be paid based on the number of tickets issued such as a percentage commission or a set fee per ticket issued. In Md. , I believe that the image/data is reviewed by an LEO before it is actually sent to the accused.
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Of course, if you are not allowed to contest the accuracy of the machine, you sare really left with no defense. And as I've pointed out, they sort of suitcase you. If you do a PIA request, it can take months to hear back, by which time your court date has passed, and you cannot conduct MVA business until it's settled. With a LEO, he has to be in court, for these, nobody does. Because that cost money. As for the "bounty system" restriction, you might think that's a real restriction, but in reality, the so-called reform that was supposed to put a stop to it has no teeth, and all the counties that were operating under such a contract continue to do so. And from what The CCSO said, it appears they are doing the same thing, since they mention the county is getting a percentage of the tickets. Which means that the vendor is getting one too. And a percentage system is a bounty system. More tickets means more money. No incentive to cheat there, eh?


GregV814 said:
pssst... here is the secret....slow down....
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And again, what if you drive an RV or truck, which quite often get ticketed even though they were doing the limit?
 
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T

tblwdc

New Member
glhs837 said:
Of course, if you are not allowed to contest the accuracy of the machine, you sare really left with no defense. And as I've pointed out, they sort of suitcase you. If you do a PIA request, it can take months to hear back, by which time your court date has passed, and you cannot conduct MVA business until it's settled. With a LEO, he has to be in court, for these, nobody does. Because that cost money. As for the "bounty system" restriction, you might think that's a real restriction, but in reality, the so-called reform that was supposed to put a stop to it has no teeth, and all the counties that were operating under such a contract continue to do so. And from what The CCSO said, it appears they are doing the same thing, since they mention the county is getting a percentage of the tickets. Which means that the vendor is getting one too. And a percentage system is a bounty system. More tickets means more money. No incentive to cheat there, eh?




And again, what if you drive an RV or truck, which quite often get ticketed even though they were doing the limit?
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If you contest this ticket, they have to provide the same evidence of calibration as would a law enforcement officer. Your argument is wrong.
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
tblwdc said:
If you contest this ticket, they have to provide the same evidence of calibration as would a law enforcement officer. Your argument is wrong.
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And unless I'm mistaken, that evidence is usually a blanket statement that the device performs a self check every day. Not the actual signed off self check logs. I'm open to proof that shows otherwise.
 
3

3CATSAILOR

Well-Known Member
Yeah, there is an area on the citation where a police officer should have signed it. But, I don't see it. If there is one, it is so faint, you can't see it. I guess the idea of innocent before proven guilty only applies to other laws and not automated enforcement. I didn't see any where it exempts automated enforcement from this requirement. Perhaps I missed it?
 
LightRoasted

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Read the law as it is written. No need to contest. If you have more than one car and aren't sure if you were driving the ticketed one, tell them in your, registered return receipt, letter, that you were not driving the vehicle that day. You are under no obligation, under the law, to say who was driving it. It's as simple as that.
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
LightRoasted said:
If I may ...

Read the law as it is written. No need to contest. If you have more than one car and aren't sure if you were driving the ticketed one, tell them in your, registered return receipt, letter, that you were not driving the vehicle that day. You are under no obligation, under the law, to say who was driving it. It's as simple as that.
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Yep, that's sort of the legality, but unless you have an ironclad alibi expect to spend far more than $40 trying it. And I'm pretty sure you will need to provide an ironclad alibi. The law as currently interpreted does not require you to identify who was driving to not be responsible, but proving you were not driving is still on you.
 
R

rhenderson

Guest
The ticket is issued to the registered owner of the vehicle. The courts recognize that the owner may not be the driver, therefore no points are assessed against the owner's driver's license. If the owner's defense is they were not driving they will have to to identify who was driving or show evidence that they had reported the car stolen before the offense occurred. As an owner, you may be held responsible for whatever happens with the vehicle - including liability for an accident when someone else is driving the car.
 
glhs837

glhs837

Power with Control
rhenderson said:
The ticket is issued to the registered owner of the vehicle. The courts recognize that the owner may not be the driver, therefore no points are assessed against the owner's driver's license. If the owner's defense is they were not driving they will have to to identify who was driving or show evidence that they had reported the car stolen before the offense occurred. As an owner, you may be held responsible for whatever happens with the vehicle - including liability for an accident when someone else is driving the car.
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Ah, no points are assesed becuase they dont want to raise issues about confronting the accuser. Even if you admit you are the driver, you don't get points.

Ah, no,read that article I linked, here, I'll make it easy for you....

"Unlike parking tickets, the Maryland's speedcam law gives the ticketed owner an out if they can prove they weren't behind the wheel. Maryland statute specifically cites as a defense "evidence that the person named in the citation was not operating the vehicle at the time of the violation." It doesn't cite any requirement that the owner identify the actual driver and that's not explained on the ticket.
Instead, printed on the back of every Maryland speed camera ticket is a heading of "transfer of liability." The ticket instructs registered owners who weren't driving that they may "choose to identify the person" who was behind the wheel. Our investigation found the "transfer of liability" directive printed on all Maryland tickets is not part of Maryland's automated traffic enforcement statute.

And lastly, ah, no, unless it's a situation where you knowingly gave the keys to someone you knew to be unable to drive, I'm pretty sure. If you can cases that are not like that, I'm willing to change my belief, but not otherwise. Examples?
 
GURPS

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
RPMDAD said:
Don't know about Charles, but in Calvert, i am pretty sure i read that the camera triggers at 12 mph over the posted limit. That is more than reasonable for me. In most school zones that would be 37 mph in a 25 mph or 42 mph in a 30 mph zone. It does not trigger at 3 - 5 mph over the limit.
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this stretch of 5 is 50 ... no 'school zone' where folks have to slow down ....
 
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