Clinton or Bush

[Bustem' Down]

There's a point in there, but it's overshadowed by the fact that we basically hire these clowns to do a job. Unfortunately, it's difficult to fire them when they screw up.

I didn't think Clinton was that good of a president his first term. So imagine my surprise when he was re-elected. That wasn't my fault, and it wasn't the fault of 50.8% of voters.

And Congress, who checks and balances the president - who elects them? Is Nancy Pelosi my fault? Even Barbara Mikulski isn't my fault because I have never voted for her, not even once.

So do you think they care what people who don't vote for them think? No. No, they don't. Because they have enough people who WILL keep voting them into office that people like you and me can ##### our faces off and it goes in one ear and right out the other.

So whe just sit back and :shrug:? Take it on the chin just because? Why are liberal lobyists and activist groups so productive? They scream the loudest, I almost never hear of the same from the conservative side.

 

[vraiblonde]

And, like it or not, SOMEONE must think Bush, Clinton, etc, are doing/have done a pretty good job or they wouldn't have been re-elected. The majority of the people in Massachusetts think Teddy Kennedy is a good Senator, or they wouldn't keep putting him back in office.

I agree with you in theory, Bustem, that we're a nation of Cheeto-eating morons who know the Friday evening television lineup, but can't name the three branches of government. Educated voters cannot compete with that because we can write our Congressman until our fingers fall off, and all some politician has to say is, "Cheetos and pay-per-view for the masses!" and our vote is effectively canceled out.

 

[vraiblonde]

Why are liberal lobyists and activist groups so productive? They scream the loudest, I almost never hear of the same from the conservative side.

And the Republicans control the House, the Senate and the White House. So liberal activists aren't too productive after all.

That said, it disappoints me that the Dems have gone off the deep end. I like balance in government and have never thought that one party should control politics in this country.

 

[Bustem' Down]

And, like it or not, SOMEONE must think Bush, Clinton, etc, are doing/have done a pretty good job or they wouldn't have been re-elected. The majority of the people in Massachusetts think Teddy Kennedy is a good Senator, or they wouldn't keep putting him back in office.

I agree with you in theory, Bustem, that we're a nation of Cheeto-eating morons who know the Friday evening television lineup, but can't name the three branches of government. Educated voters cannot compete with that because we can write our Congressman until our fingers fall off, and all some politician has to say is, "Cheetos and pay-per-view for the masses!" and our vote is effectively canceled out.

Don't stick to just your rep. When they had the big anti-jet noise push in Va Beach a few years back, it was looking pretty bad for the Navy, and in reality, I believe that 9/11 is what ultimatly saved Oceana (suddenly everyone loved jet noise). I wrote to both my senators in Texas, the Reps for the tidewater area, my Rep back in Texas, the Gov. of Virginia and the head of the Armed Forces Commitee telling them not to restrict the flying of aircraft over Va Beach. Our pilots need the training. I don't know if I would have affected anything, but I pursued every avenue I could see and contacted people that didn't even represent me. I was ready to write to every single senator but 9/11 happened and it became a moot point.

 

[Bustem' Down]

How to fix it though? I don't know. I'm already so tired of the mudsliging of politics that dominates the news nowadays that my current retirement plan involes me moving to the Azores and having CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News blocked from my direct TV.

 

[FireBrand]

How to fix it though? I don't know. I'm already so tired of the mudsliging of politics that dominates the news nowadays that my current retirement plan involes me moving to the Azores and having CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News blocked from my direct TV.

Yes, the shiat does grow old my friend,
but we have a obligation not to grow weary.

 

[Larry Gude]

This is a simple fact...

Agreed. I think part of the issue here is where to draw the line. At what point do we stop blaming Bush or Clinton for future problems? 1 year? 5? A century?

...W could have destroyed UBL day 1. He could have let it be known that he will take his job of providing for the common defense of this nation and this people absolutely seriously. When you kick the azz of the jaywalkers and panhandlers, the real bad actors get the picture. Ask Rudi Gulianni how this works.

Expecting ANYTHING from CLinton is, to me, a bizarre joke. That guy is one of history's greatest collection of mental issues. He's OCD, paranoid, ADD, massive inferiority complex. He's a mess. He has no record of productive action besides winning elections and getting people emotionally invested in him. It's just who he is.

Economic issues, OK, that takes some time, a few years. Infrastructure policies, takes some time. Who sits on a court? Time. Exterminating the roaches? Git er dun.

 

[Larry Gude]

I disagree...

I am saying action even if not 100% efficiently carried out is much better than inaction.

...I don't want a scrub nurse attempting brain surgery in the name of doing SOMETHING.

Bill Clinton was President for 8 years and accomplished...what?

He's a 'be'er' not a 'do'er'.

Be'ers usually make it worse.

 

[Bronwyn]

You have to remember that they were burning american flags over there in the time that Carter was president. They held those American hostages at that embassy for 444 days. They were hijacking planes on a regular basis and forcing them to land in Beruit and Lybia. They hikacked that cruise line and pushed an American man in a wheel chair in the ocean and never looked back. When Reagen took office he stated that if you don't squash terrorism it will spread like cancer.

 

[Pete]

...I don't want a scrub nurse attempting brain surgery in the name of doing SOMETHING.

Bill Clinton was President for 8 years and accomplished...what?

He's a 'be'er' not a 'do'er'.

Be'ers usually make it worse.

Are we agreeing or disagreeing?

 

[Hessian]

Definately...

Carter.

Totally misread the emerging movement in the Middle East while bumbling in Angola, Panama, Afghanistan (Russian Invasion) and assuring constant peace in the Sinai.

Blithering idiot.

 

[Kerad]

Who is responsible?

 

[BuddyLee]

So do you think they care what people who don't vote for them think? No. No, they don't. Because they have enough people who WILL keep voting them into office that people like you and me can ##### our faces off and it goes in one ear and right out the other.

What if we implemented some form of proportional representation? Whomever gets the majority gets the most seats, however, all parties are due a seat according to the percentage of votes they receive. Is this not more democratic? If the people believe some of the ignoramus's should get voted out, they'll have a much better chance of voting for someone else besides sh*t sandwich A or sh*t sandwich B.

 

[vraiblonde]

What if we implemented some form of proportional representation? Whomever gets the majority gets the most seats, however, all parties are due a seat according to the percentage of votes they receive. Is this not more democratic? If the people believe some of the ignoramus's should get voted out, they'll have a much better chance of voting for someone else besides sh*t sandwich A or sh*t sandwich B.

I'd like to see electoral votes be divided by congressional district instead of winner take all. And I'd like to see Senators be elected by that same electoral vote system. This would give better representation to rural areas and suburbs, instead of whole states being held hostage by one big city.

 

[Otter]

I'd like to see electoral votes be divided by congressional district instead of winner take all. And I'd like to see Senators be elected by that same electoral vote system. This would give better representation to rural areas and suburbs, instead of whole states being held hostage by one big city.

Maryland has been held hostage for years by PG, Montgomery and B-more City.

 

[FireBrand]

Maryland has been held hostage for years by PG, Montgomery and B-more City.

 

[Ken King]

What if we implemented some form of proportional representation? Whomever gets the majority gets the most seats, however, all parties are due a seat according to the percentage of votes they receive. Is this not more democratic? If the people believe some of the ignoramus's should get voted out, they'll have a much better chance of voting for someone else besides sh*t sandwich A or sh*t sandwich B.

It can be that way as it is the states that decide how the "electoral" votes are distributed. But seriously, do you think that Maryland would ever do anything like that while it has such a lopsidedly represented legislature?

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

I'd like to see electoral votes be divided by congressional district instead of winner take all. And I'd like to see Senators be elected by that same electoral vote system. This would give better representation to rural areas and suburbs, instead of whole states being held hostage by one big city.

...THAT is an interesting subject.

From what I could find, of the 425 actual congressional districts, Bush won 255 and Kerry won 180 in 2004. That's about 60% for W. which is higher than the actual 51% of the popular vote he got and higher than the 53% he got in the electoral count.

The actual 2004 electoral tally was 286/252, or right around 53% for W of the 538 electoral votes available, and with the size of many states in the winner take all format, any would be Presidents win could come down to one or two states even though, counted district wise, it might not do the trick.

Now, as Ken said, the electoral college is Constitutionally mandated but HOW the states allocate their electors is a STATE issue.

For the consideration of those who think their vote doesn't matter; Bush won 164 counties by less than a 5% margin. Kery won some 146 by less than 5%.
That's about 10% of the 3,000 or so counties we have in the country.

To me, a district by district system would be favorable if you want some attention from the national parties. As it is, they only go to so called battleground states and the districts that could swing the state.

 

[BuddyLee]

It can be that way as it is the states that decide how the "electoral" votes are distributed. But seriously, do you think that Maryland would ever do anything like that while it has such a lopsidedly represented legislature?

Not now at least. Perhaps if there were a sudden shift but that is years down the road.