Conservative Catholics question Pope

[GURPS]

Conservative Catholics question Pope Francis’s approach


Rattled by Pope Francis’s admonishment to Catholics not to be “obsessed” by doctrine, his stated reluctance to judge gay priests and his apparent willingness to engage just about anyone — including atheists — many conservative Catholics are doing what only recently seemed unthinkable:

They are openly questioning the pope.

Concern among traditionalists began building soon after Francis was elected this spring. Almost immediately, the new pope told non-Catholic and atheist journalists he would bless them silently out of respect. Soon after, he eschewed Vatican practice and included women in a foot-washing ceremony.

The wary traditionalists became critical when, in an interview a few weeks ago, Francis said Catholics shouldn’t be “obsessed” with imposing doctrines, including on gay marriage and abortion. Then earlier this month, Francis told an atheist journalist that people should follow good and fight evil as they “conceive” of them. These remarks followed an interview with journalists this summer aboard the papal airplane in which the pope declared that it is not his role to judge someone who is gay “if they accept the Lord and have goodwill.”

 

[Radiant1]

P-lease. Conservative Catholics *always* question the pope because regardless of who he is they're more Catholic than him. This is the third pope since my conversion and they've questioned every one of them.

 

[GURPS]

I don't really have an opinion in the matter ... it does make for interesting an discussion

 

[b23hqb]

I don't really have an opinion in the matter ... it does make for interesting an discussion

Sure does. The next logical step, in order to build up the Catholic "membership", will be for the Vatican to declare homosexuality, same-sex marriages, homosexual clergy, not a sin, and usurp what the written, inspired word of the Bible reads, preaches, and teaches about marriage, women in clergy, etc.

The Catholic conservatives are rightfully concerned with the path their church is heading down.

This is an issue that will just get larger within the cc, as I opined about a month ago in a previous thread about this topic.

It doesn't concern me, personally, as a Protestant evangelical. It is, and will be, interesting reading and discussing, though.

 

[Radiant1]

Sure does. The next logical step, in order to build up the Catholic "membership", will be for the Vatican to declare homosexuality, same-sex marriages, homosexual clergy, not a sin, and usurp what the written, inspired word of the Bible reads, preaches, and teaches about marriage, women in clergy, etc.

At approximately 1.2 BILLION members and nearly 18% of the world's population by last records, I don't think membership is an issue. You have to remember that Catholicism isn't an USA-only Christian denomination like your Evangelical sect. Catholicism is universal and worldwide. In addition, the Catholic Church is certainly the last entity to be accused of being politically correct (makes me giggle thinking about it). If that were the case, then the Church would have claimed those things you state above a looong time ago.

Now, I know this is getting personal, but...you're a f'n idiot.

 

[b23hqb]

At approximately 1.2 BILLION members and nearly 18% of the world's population by last records, I don't think membership is an issue. You have to remember that Catholicism isn't an USA-only Christian denomination like your Evangelical sect. Catholicism is universal and worldwide. In addition, the Catholic Church is certainly the last entity to be accused of being politically correct (makes me giggle thinking about it). If that were the case, then the Church would have claimed those things you state above a looong time ago.

Now, I know this is getting personal, but...you're a f'n idiot.

Radi1, you are probably a nice person, but your vulgarity is an instant turn off, just reinforcing your ignorance of decent public discourse, simply because you don't like what is being said.

Personal or not, your response was logically expected, as you have a number of times toward me and others that differ in opinion - a typical, instant retort of anger, vulger obscenity. Was this taught to you in your compassionate, loving rcc classes? A result of good, clean catholic upbringing and living? Or something you just spew out because it is who you are?

1.3 billion peeps doesn't mean squat -it is just a number. Of that 1.3 billion, I would say it is the conservative branch that makes up the vast majority of attendee's on any kind of semi-regular basis. No different in the Protestant theology.

“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

What is the "new balance" the Pope speaks of? Balance by basic definition means weighing one object, thought, or force against other objects, forces, or thoughts, to promote an equilibrium. So, tell me and others, what your Pope is going to trade off from the conservative traditionalists to gain his "new balance" with the liberal, unbiblical aspects.

What is the "moral edifice" of the rcc, the "universal" church? Doesn't matter how compassionate, loving, caring, giving anyone or organization can be to another person or group of peoples, no human can make a sin not a sin, or a violation of Biblical doctrine not a violation of Biblical doctrine.

Unless a human being thinks they are God, that is.

The rcc is not alone in these issues, believe me. We have plenty of them ourselves, but many of the Protestant churches, of which many are headed down the unbiblical pathway as well, deal with the issue head on, and hope and pray the Bible wins out.

Not mans' will, but God's will. Is that part of rcc doctrine?

 

[onel0126]

Radi1, you are probably a nice person, but your vulgarity is an instant turn off, just reinforcing your ignorance of decent public discourse, simply because you don't like what is being said. Personal or not, your response was logically expected, as you have a number of times toward me and others that differ in opinion - a typical, instant retort of anger, vulger obscenity. Was this taught to you in your compassionate, loving rcc classes? A result of good, clean catholic upbringing and living? Or something you just spew out because it is who you are? 1.3 billion peeps doesn't mean squat -it is just a number. Of that 1.3 billion, I would say it is the conservative branch that makes up the vast majority of attendee's on any kind of semi-regular basis. No different in the Protestant theology. “We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.” What is the "new balance" the Pope speaks of? Balance by basic definition means weighing one object, thought, or force against other objects, forces, or thoughts, to promote an equilibrium. So, tell me and others, what your Pope is going to trade off from the conservative traditionalists to gain his "new balance" with the liberal, unbiblical aspects. What is the "moral edifice" of the rcc, the "universal" church? Doesn't matter how compassionate, loving, caring, giving anyone or organization can be to another person or group of peoples, no human can make a sin not a sin, or a violation of Biblical doctrine not a violation of Biblical doctrine. Unless a human being thinks they are God, that is. The rcc is not alone in these issues, believe me. We have plenty of them ourselves, but many of the Protestant churches, of which many are headed down the unbiblical pathway as well, deal with the issue head on, and hope and pray the Bible wins out. Not mans' will, but God's will. Is that part of rcc doctrine?

You know the Catholic Church has never bent to public opinion on ANY social issues. NEVER. The same can definitely not be said about Protestant denominations.....Gay marriage, pro-choice, ordination of females......

 

[Radiant1]

your vulgarity is an instant turn off

I don't care, as I'm not trying to turn you on.

Was this taught to you in your compassionate, loving rcc classes? A result of good, clean catholic upbringing and living? Or something you just spew out because it is who you are?

Well ya know, I'd probably be more sensitive towards you if I were actually raised Catholic, but I wasn't. I was raised Protestant.

1.3 billion peeps doesn't mean squat -it is just a number. Of that 1.3 billion, I would say it is the conservative branch that makes up the vast majority of attendee's on any kind of semi-regular basis. No different in the Protestant theology.

Numbers do mean something when you imply that the Church will compromise it's principles for new membership. In case you missed it, my point in bringing up numbers is that the Church has no need for new membership.

“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

What is the "new balance" the Pope speaks of? Balance by basic definition means weighing one object, thought, or force against other objects, forces, or thoughts, to promote an equilibrium. So, tell me and others, what your Pope is going to trade off from the conservative traditionalists to gain his "new balance" with the liberal, unbiblical aspects.

Your penchant for wanting to pigeon-hole everything into liberal and conservative (and in your view wrong and right or unbiblical and biblical) is a case of transference on your part not to mention your Protestant either/or thinking as opposed to both/and. The only thing "new" is not emphasizing one sin (such as abortion or homosexuality) over another (such as lusting after someone not your spouse or speeding on the highway). Sin is sin; we're not to point fingers at others and shout how they are more of a sinner than we are. God forbid we become, well, like you.

What is the "moral edifice" of the rcc, the "universal" church? Doesn't matter how compassionate, loving, caring, giving anyone or organization can be to another person or group of peoples, no human can make a sin not a sin, or a violation of Biblical doctrine not a violation of Biblical doctrine.

Nobody is trying to make a sin not a sin. Your insistence on saying as much is why you're an f'n idiot.

Not mans' will, but God's will. Is that part of rcc doctrine?

Absolutely, and may it be done.

 

[hotcoffee]

Sure does. The next logical step, in order to build up the Catholic "membership", will be for the Vatican to declare homosexuality, same-sex marriages, homosexual clergy, not a sin, and usurp what the written, inspired word of the Bible reads, preaches, and teaches about marriage, women in clergy, etc.

The Catholic conservatives are rightfully concerned with the path their church is heading down.

This is an issue that will just get larger within the cc, as I opined about a month ago in a previous thread about this topic.

It doesn't concern me, personally, as a Protestant evangelical. It is, and will be, interesting reading and discussing, though.

Wow.... please understand... I've known a lot of Protestant evangelicals.... and to claim that you are one... saying this just doesn't make sense. Sorry....

I'm a Baptist.... maybe I'm evangelical.... I try to be anyway.... but I am really digging the new Pope. Not only has he moved to showing more compassion in the church.... he's showing the coffers and helping out those in need.... that's [well] downright Christlike..... I haven't seen that in a long time....

I have not seen anything that says the Catholic Church is saying sin is not bad. I still see them valuing life. As a matter of fact, most Catholics I know value life more than some of the Sunday Go To Church types in the churches. Someone on this forum already went into the issues the Protestants have been dealing with lately .... and some would get failing grades.

If you ask me.... We should be doing some soul searching and looking for a revival of following the footsteps of Christ a little closer.... right?

 

[czygvtwkr]

The pope should just come out and say "Quit being dickheads" then maybe they will get the point.

 

[Radiant1]

The pope should just come out and say "Quit being dickheads" then maybe they will get the point.

I don't think he'd put it quite that way.

 

[b23hqb]

The pope should just come out and say "Quit being dickheads" then maybe they will get the point.

Who is they? The Bible and what it says?

 

[czygvtwkr]

Who is they? The Bible and what it says?

The people that apparently think gayness is the root of all evil and that they must treat gays in very un-christian like ways or they will catch the gay.