Converting coal to gasoline...

[Larry Gude]

...anyone know much about this?

The Germans ran their war machine on it, WWII. South Africa does it nowadays.

Any numbers for cost per gallon to produce?

Currently, 25% of our energy use comes from coal and, supposedly, there is enough known reserve to last for about 2,000 years. If it becomes economical to use for gasoline, throw in some new nukes to the mix, we're looking at an easy 1,000 year supply if coal becomes 50%...ALL DOMESTICALLY PRODUCED.

You people start screaming loud and long enough, coal might be the answer for awhile.

 

[KYWoman]

FYI: The U.S. Senate Committee on Energy & Natural Resources is conducting a full Committee hearing on May 1, 2006 at 2:30pm, SD-366 to receive testimony regarding the economic and environmental issues associated with coal gasification technology and on implementation of the provisions of the Energy Policy Act of 2005 addressing coal gasification.

 

[Dougstermd]

the price of coal is goin up

 

[Lugnut]

They don't actually turn the coal into gasoline but extract various flammables from it like hydrogen, methane etc. Plain old wood can be used as well. Do some quick googling on "Wood gasification" or "gasifier." Here's a quick link for ya from the "FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION OF THE UNITED NATIONS" URL=http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/docrep/t0512e/T0512e06.htm]http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/docrep/t0512e/T0512e06.htm[/URL] They also have instructions on building them.

Wood gasifiers were used here in the US during both WWI and WWII because of gas/oil shortages.

I built a small gasifier as a project a few years ago and semi-successfully ran a lawnmower engine off it. Still have a few books and "how to" stuff on the bookshelves too. The gas is as cheap as your raw material and the effort to build and fine tune the gasifier. I.e. pretty dang cheap.

 

[MMDad]

If you have the time, here's a pretty in depth article:

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1981/jul-aug/becker.htm

 

[Ken King]

I understand that while it might not be too expensive to do this it is a dirty process and releases a lot of toxic material into the atmosphere. Is that danger over-ridden by the gained benefit?

 

[Lugnut]

If you want to play around with something without a whole lot of effort here's a place that sells wood gas stoves... http://www.woodgas.com/

 

[Lugnut]

I understand that while it might not be too expensive to do this it is a dirty process and releases a lot of toxic material into the atmosphere. Is that danger over-ridden by the gained benefit?

I know it's hard to believe but toxic emissions are actually significantly less than other methods of combustion.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I understand that while it might not be too expensive to do this it is a dirty process and releases a lot of toxic material into the atmosphere. Is that danger over-ridden by the gained benefit?

But coal fired boilers used to emit lots of stuff and are now fairly clean. The process is "dirty" but technology could be developed to clean it up. The "waste" products might even have uses after being collected and that would make the process more economically attractive.

 

[Ken King]

I know it's hard to believe but toxic emissions are actually significantly less than other methods of combustion.

I am talking about the process of converting the coal to gas, not using the gas after it is refined. As I understand coal contains a lot of materials, including uranium, and as such could make a bigger problem unless the process is of a nature that filters out these harmful elements instead of just releasing them.

 

[Larry Gude]

Amen...

But coal fired boilers used to emit lots of stuff and are now fairly clean. The process is "dirty" but technology could be developed to clean it up. The "waste" products might even have uses after being collected and that would make the process more economically attractive.

...to that.

How hard is that to grasp?

But nooooo....

headline; COAL

American public;

 

[Larry Gude]

My whole thing is this...

I am talking about the process of converting the coal to gas, not using the gas after it is refined. As I understand coal contains a lot of materials, including uranium, and as such could make a bigger problem unless the process is of a nature that filters out these harmful elements instead of just releasing them.

...coal is something like 1/8 th cost of oil per btu right now. Maybe 1/10th.

That leaves a piss pot of money to develop and apply solutions.

 

[Ken King]

...coal is something like 1/8 th cost of oil per btu right now. Maybe 1/10th.

That leaves a piss pot of money to develop and apply solutions.

That is all good, and maybe the remaining extract from the mining process could be shipped to New Orleans to back fill the city and get it above sea-level creating another benefit from the process.

 

[Larry Gude]

See?

That is all good, and maybe the remaining extract from the mining process could be shipped to New Orleans to back fill the city and get it above sea-level creating another benefit from the process.

The marriage of technology and practicality.

It can be...Glow in the Dark Chocolate City.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I am talking about the process of converting the coal to gas, not using the gas after it is refined. As I understand coal contains a lot of materials, including uranium, and as such could make a bigger problem unless the process is of a nature that filters out these harmful elements instead of just releasing them.

Coal - a multi-energy source. Straight coal, gas from coal, methane from coal, uranium from coal.

 

[Larry Gude]

Great read!

If you have the time, here's a pretty in depth article:

http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1981/jul-aug/becker.htm

...I wonder what the modern take is on this, hydrogenation, as this piece was written some time ago?

Fascinating to be inside the minds of Germanys leaders from a strategic standpoint. Hitler was crazy but he was also desperate; it was all or nothing attacking Russia. That puts a whole new spin on his decision to invade.

:fixed:

 

[Larry Gude]

It would be nice to see this get going...

from...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal

Estimates of the cost of producing liquid fuels from coal suggest that domestic U.S. production of fuel from coal becomes cost-competitive with oil priced at around 35 USD per barrel [4], (break-even cost).

 

[Larry Gude]

Or maybe not...

While these substances are trace impurities, enough coal is burned that significant amounts of these substances are released, paradoxically resulting in more radioactive waste than nuclear power.

So, nuke again, eh?

 

[Lugnut]

I am talking about the process of converting the coal to gas, not using the gas after it is refined. As I understand coal contains a lot of materials, including uranium, and as such could make a bigger problem unless the process is of a nature that filters out these harmful elements instead of just releasing them.

Hey Ken, can you point me toward info on this? Back when I was tinkering with these I did a lot of reading and everything I looked at WRT pollution products seemed to indicate less pollutants in both the burnt fuel AND the waste ash.

I don't recall references off hand but several of them were gov and university studies from the 40's and late 70's. Both time periods being peak research periods in this field.

 

[Ken King]

Hey Ken, can you point me toward info on this? Back when I was tinkering with these I did a lot of reading and everything I looked at WRT pollution products seemed to indicate less pollutants in both the burnt fuel AND the waste ash.

I don't recall references off hand but several of them were gov and university studies from the 40's and late 70's. Both time periods being peak research periods in this field.

http://www.pharmaciaretirees.com/refining_gasoline_from_coal.htm

Now I haven't checked the validity of the claims but it's a point to start from.