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Dixie
Guest
Anybody catch Lisa Meyers report on Chris Matthews last night? What did you think?
kwillia
n/a
Nope. There was no reason to prevent those men from getting on those planes. Even the ones that were 'suspect' had the right to fly. I am even more convinced of this now that I have seen the video of them being searched before boarding the plane at Dulles. There was no reason, whatsoever to stop them from boarding. I also believe it could and will happen again.
CityGrl
Time for a nap
Yep, I saw it. I don't believe 9/11 could be prevented, but I found it interesting when they said that our national security failed 17 times by allowing 17 hijackers onto those planes.
Also, I really found the recording from the FAA interesting when they were discussing whether or not they should mobilize military planes to shoot down the hijacked planes: "Ummm...I dunno." and "Well, everyone just left the room."
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Dixie
Guest
Sorry Smalltown, I got sidetracked by my job. Recap? Yeah probably, but it just flattens me that Khan walked into the FBI, told them about flight training/hijacks, passed two polygraphs, offered to go to Pakistan, get more info and they turned him down, sent him back to London. It just blows my mind. I get the impression you're intelligent, wouldn't you go screaming to someone about this FBI or not? Why, why why why why, it's inexcusable. Missed opportunities!!!? That's not missed opportunity it's stupidity. I don't know what the "families" think but is sure looks to me like it could have been stopped.
kwillia
n/a
Dixie, what about now? What about the fact that we not only know about their flight training, we also know it isn't just someone's wild vision, but a reality that there are those willing to kill themselves in order to accomplish using a plane as a bomb. We also know for a fact that there are those in this country right now, today that hate America and are associated with parties that wish to do us harm, yet we have sooooo many lawyers and "rights" groups screaming about how unfair it is to scrutinize them or threaten them with deportation... Moussaui... Padella... those names (though probably misspelled) ring a bell? What do you propose be done different that will stop the next plane/bomb attack?
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Dixie
Guest
I'm not talking about now, I was talking about could it have been prevented. What would you do if someone today came into your office and said I have valid information that people are going to flight schools for the sole purpose of hijacking planes. Would you let the FBI let it drop? If you were FBI and your supervisor didn't let it go forward, what would you do? Without even knowing what you know now what would you do - if the person had credibility what would you do? Even if you think he didn't. I think the FBI blew it right then and there. I would have been on the internet so fast it would your head spin. I would have called Woodward, newspapers whatever it took, enough to generate so much interest they'd of had to do something. The hell with what the lawyers would say.
kwillia
n/a
But this is America, Dixie. You have to take into consideration what the lawyers would say. You are proposing that someone should of raised a big stink saying, "I know for a fact those men are thinking about flying planes into buildings!" What would the proof of been? Especially since the focus would of been strictly on Moslems and those of Middle East decent. Do you realize what the outpouring of outrage would of been for those poor men who were simply seeking to better themselves with an education that would allow them to master a skill that would give them the ability to get a job to support their families? I fully understand your outrage, but I also know the liberal minded in our society could care less about trying to be proactive in the hopes of preventing such an event if it means trampling on the rights of some poor soul. Read the news... the outrage is being debated daily and all this is after the 9/11 attacks.... imagine the intensity of the liberal outrage if we tried to be proactive before there was proof of their ability to overtake our planes.
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Dixie
Guest
Hey Kwilla (sp???sorry)
While I'm on a roll here (and sadly enough I have to go back to work when I finish this post) what would you do if there's a God forbid a next time? What would all of us do? They say we're ready. What would you do if say a plane crashed into one of the big buildings at Pax? Seriously. I think we'd still be as confused as we were then.
While I'm on a roll here (and sadly enough I have to go back to work when I finish this post) what would you do if there's a God forbid a next time? What would all of us do? They say we're ready. What would you do if say a plane crashed into one of the big buildings at Pax? Seriously. I think we'd still be as confused as we were then.
kwillia
n/a
Exactly. You are expressing outrage at the fact that 9/11/2001 was not prevented, yet we are in no better position today to prevent another attack. That is the point I'm trying to make. Your original question was "could it have been prevented" and I say, "No". We cannot have it both ways. We cannot say we expect our government to be proactive and be the "all knowing/all seeing" on one hand, yet tell them they don't have the right to check travel records or see what websites people are searching, what classes they are attending or what library books they are checking out on the the hand. I'm not saying that we couldn't have had better communication amongst the FBI and CIA and who ever else... I'm saying that even if we did and everybody shared what they knew and everybody had the same suspicion of the same people... the odds are that those people would of still had the right to due process and been allowed to stay in this country and fly from state to state while the years of debating in the legal system took place... we are a free country and as a result, we are vulnerable..... I don't see that changing much... do you?
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Dixie
Guest
Okay I had a really intelligent reply to you but it disappeared. Hate to hit and run but the welfare of my country depends on my CO getting to Hawaii next week. Argue with you later??? And seriously what would you do?
kwillia
n/a
What would I do? Your question was:
I fully expect there to be a next time. Because of the rights and freedoms people have in this country and because of the fact that our security procedures and systems are so well documented and easily obtainable by anyone that has a real desire to get their hands on said information, we have no way of shoring up our security. So that leads us to: What would you do if say a plane crashed into one of the big buildings at Pax? Let's assume I survive the attack. The only thing I can do is make sure my family is prepared to withstand my being unemployed (I'm a contractor and, therefore, would not be paid for base closure) for a while. There would be no way anyone but the most critical of personnel would be allowed back on base for quite some time. Is that the kind of answer you are looking for...:shrug:
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Dixie
Guest
Nah that's not what I'm looking for. I would just like to know why the government thinks we're prepared, what's their answer. But you know I'm still having trouble with SATO, and the Captain wants to go to Hawaii and I can't formulate a decent thought with that SATO music (what is that anyway)so later?????? Smalltown if terrorists attack your building today what are you going to do? City girl???
kwillia
n/a
What kind of answer are you looking for, Dixie? You want us to say if we are in a building that is attacked we will be cremated if we are at the impact site or that we will be trampled trying to get out of the building if we survive the impact because people certainly aren't going to sit around and wait for the fire department to rescue them this time. I am at a loss as to what you are questioning. By the way, we know they (the bad guys) have researched putting deadly chemicals in the air vents of large office buildings, and we know they have experience with bombing trains. And we know they have plans in place to hit our subway systems. We also have proof that they have researched hitting our nuclear facilities and know how to take out our bridges. What are you going to do if they did any of these things?
ylexot
Super Genius
kwillia
n/a
Thanks, ylexot! That's what I'm saying... I mean, jeeez-o-peeezo.... do you all know there are places in this country crying the blues and fighting hard to get non-citizens the right to vote or the right to collect welfare or that they have the right to expect us citizens to foot the legal bill for their fights on the so-called "injustices" we heathen-U.S.-citizens are trying to impose upon them... and at the same time.... "boo hoo bad ole U.S. govt for not protecting us from some of these same people"...
SurfaceTension
New Member
A notable absence in Meyers' report was Commission member Jamie Gorelick's involvement in prohibiting the sharing of information due to such concerns.
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ylexot
Super Genius
I think that may be part of it. I think another part is that security (despite the holes that still exist) is tougher and it is changing. They have to probe and learn the security measures before they can exploit them. If the security changes, they have to probe more. I think a third part is why go through all the security stuff that I just mentioned when you can just go to Iraq and fight us there. If they can make Iraq fail or make us pull out (which would only be due to pressure from the people back home), it would be a major victory for the terrorists.