Creating a Perfect Baby

[libertytyranny]

This can be helpful for parents who both carry ressesive genes for a certain illness, CF or sickle cell come to mind. SO I think, in certain cases it could be a really useful thing. but I also see how it can be misused.


as for the "test for down's" it doesnt exist. They do a blood test in early pregnancy, which looks for certain markers. It has an extremely high rate of false results in general. in short, it is fairly useless. They also do some measurements at the 20 week sono, also fairly useless. When I was pregnant, my daughter exhibited markers of down syndrome..but she is perfectly healthy. amnio or abortion were never options in my mind, period...but the sheer terror of the whole thing still haunts me. and I am logical enough to know that as a healthy young mother with no family history whatsoever my chances were extremely low of anything being wrong with her. Had I known I carried a gene for, say CF..then I cant even imagine. SO if I was high risk and if there was an option to decrease the likelyhood of having a child who was very ill..I certainly would take it.

 

[vraiblonde]

But I would have a problem if it was made manditory for the "betterment of society and the human race".

I completely agree with that. But I don't think we'll have to worry about it any time soon because our government seems to be only interested in propagating low mentality types rather than encouraging excellence.

Another country, however, may jump on that. China, perhaps, or probably some other Asian country. I'm in the middle of studying ancient history and how it pertains to today. My Soc professor pissed me off by mocking me when he was going off about how horrible the US is in our zeal to conquer other countries and force them into democracy, blah blah blah . My comment was, "Well, they should have fought harder." He used his bully pulpit to try and ridicule me for that comment, but only succeeded in making himself look like an idiot to anyone with a shred of history education and common sense.

Anyway (thanks for letting me rant, btw!), governments are about power, and power is typically obtained by force. A weak populace is ripe for the pickin' and any country worth their salt is going to want to be populated with strong, healthy individuals if for no other reason than to fend off predators. In this country we cater to our weak, which weakens us as a whole. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion, but other countries get it and are happy to encourage their enemy in becoming weaker while they themselves build strength. It has been that way throughout history, all over the world, in almost every civilization.

 

[DEEKAYPEE8569]

This can be helpful for parents who both carry ressesive genes for a certain illness, CF or sickle cell come to mind. SO I think, in certain cases it could be a really useful thing. but I also see how it can be misused.

Well, this is prob'ly irrelevant, but Hydrocephalus; what my Brother and I both have, we learned is carried by the female; any females in our line that I may father could be a carrier of this recessive gene and any boys thereafter could be "afflicted" with Hydrocephalus; similarly, any girls that my Nephews; my Brother's boys; father in the far-off future could be carriers.

 

[kwillia]

Anyway (thanks for letting me rant, btw!), governments are about power, and power is typically obtained by force. A weak populace is ripe for the pickin' and any country worth their salt is going to want to be populated with strong, healthy individuals if for no other reason than to fend off predators. In this country we cater to our weak, which weakens us as a whole. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion, but other countries get it and are happy to encourage their enemy in becoming weaker while they themselves build strength. It has been that way throughout history, all over the world, in almost every civilization.

I completely agree. I think it is the downfall of our country that we cater to those who chose to have babies they can't house or feed or don't/won't care for in others ways.

Vrai, I'd like to add that I also don't believe we should legislate how people chose to raise their kids if it involves choices that don't affect others outside of their family... we shouldn't be paying folks to have children they can't house or feed and if they let them play in the streets or ride in cars without seatbelts or carseats, etc. I see that as natural selection by parental choice.

But as you pointed out, breeding a society on the government dole leads to generations of dedicated voters who will keep you in power.

 

[vraiblonde]

But as you pointed out, breeding a society on the government dole leads to generations of dedicated voters who will keep you in power.

Yay! Someone smart who'll talk to me!

The difference between elected representatives vs. dictators is that representatives are only concerned about their personal power, whereas dictators are more interested in the power of the state because, well, they ARE the state. THE guy as opposed to a committee. We can debate the right and wrong of this, but what is constant throughout history is that the representative republic will weaken itself eventually and be conquered.

 

[migtig]

I'm sure I'll catch hell for this, since most people like to knee-jerk react and not really think about anything, but:

If we can ensure defect-free healthy babies, why wouldn't we?

Mig and Kwilly, I can usually count on you ladies to give me well thought out, objective discussion, so I'll direct this at you: What might we be losing out of future generations that would be a detriment to mankind and society by selective breeding?

Oh man. I said I'm torn and I am. In all honesty, I just don't see it stopping with disease free / defect free babies. (Who decides what is a defect?)

I think my greatest concern is humans "tinkering" with evolution.

We humans have genes that haven't been fully mapped and that we mere mortals don't even know the purpose of.

Once we get selective with scientists brewing up the perfect child with the perfect traits and the perfect genetic profile, how do we know that's really the type of perfection that our race was meant to evolve into.

Then you factor in kids that are created normally who don't look perfect, or don't have the perfect genetic traits, and then you start creating classes of people called the perfect and imperfect. Breeding could possibly become controlled, allowing only the perfect to breed and imperfect children sacrificed to the gods of science.

I just see a slippery slope with the breeding of perfect children.

I keep hearing the song "little brown bottle". In "Brave New World" children were all test tube babies created for the sole pupose of fullfilling certain jobs and are controlled from the moment they are created by eugenics.

Hitler wanted to breed a perfect race. It seems we do too. And the problems with eliminating free thinking individuals who may not be perfectly created are numerous.

Maybe we were all meant to be mass produced and have a herd mentality.

I hope not.

However, I figure in my lifetime, since the technology is there, we'll start to see perfect test tube babies being created.

 

[MarieB]

This can be helpful for parents who both carry ressesive genes for a certain illness, CF or sickle cell come to mind. SO I think, in certain cases it could be a really useful thing. but I also see how it can be misused.


as for the "test for down's" it doesnt exist. They do a blood test in early pregnancy, which looks for certain markers. It has an extremely high rate of false results in general. in short, it is fairly useless. They also do some measurements at the 20 week sono, also fairly useless. When I was pregnant, my daughter exhibited markers of down syndrome..but she is perfectly healthy. amnio or abortion were never options in my mind, period...but the sheer terror of the whole thing still haunts me. and I am logical enough to know that as a healthy young mother with no family history whatsoever my chances were extremely low of anything being wrong with her. Had I known I carried a gene for, say CF..then I cant even imagine. SO if I was high risk and if there was an option to decrease the likelyhood of having a child who was very ill..I certainly would take it.

Those tests have come a long way, and I would dispute that they are useless. Detection of certain markers are more significant, and in particular with the second trimester ultrasound.

 

[Radiant1]

Hitler wanted to breed a perfect race. It seems we do too. And the problems with eliminating free thinking individuals who may not be perfectly created are numerous.

Maybe we were all meant to be mass produced and have a herd mentality.

This is what I was thinking, a nice conformist Aryan population of perfection. Heil!

 

[Vince]

Too bad we can't find a way to purge the "liberal" gene from the pool.

 

[Radiant1]

Too bad we can't find a way to purge the "liberal" gene from the pool.

Oh, but you can with next-generation sequencing!

Researchers find a 'liberal gene'

 

[vraiblonde]

Hitler wanted to breed a perfect race. It seems we do too. And the problems with eliminating free thinking individuals who may not be perfectly created are numerous.

I will argue that we haven't been free-thinking individuals since the invention of mass media.

I agree with you that it's unlikely to stop at health concerns. If a scientist can, he will. They don't operate under ethical dilemmas. But if we, the US, do not do it, some other country that's not as squeamish will. And then we will go the way of the empires that have fallen before us.

Which is fine with me, btw - I'm okay with the evolutionary process. But we are facilitating our own demise and that's something to think about.

 

[Vince]

I will argue that we haven't been free-thinking individuals since the invention of mass media.

I agree with you that it's unlikely to stop at health concerns. If a scientist can, he will. They don't operate under ethical dilemmas. But if we, the US, do not do it, some other country that's not as squeamish will. And then we will go the way of the empires that have fallen before us.

Which is fine with me, btw - I'm okay with the evolutionary process. But we are facilitating our own demise and that's something to think about.

That's what I'm saying. It won't stop with just a healthy baby. Sooner or later someone will want to create the perfect race....again, but I don't think it will be our downfall. It will be theirs.

 

[SoMDGirl42]

After reading some of the comments, some people really scare me. I can't help but think of the young man I saw this weekend. He obviously was born with major birth defects. He had no legs, only about 6 inch stubs from his torso on both sides and no arms, only stubs to about his elbows. I truly believe that most of you would have aborted him had you known how he would have been born. But let me tell you something. I watched in amazment how that young man managed to waddle around the pool on his nubs, climb a 5 meter diving board, and proceed to do 1 1/2 back summersalts from the diving board, swim to the edge, heave himself out of the water and repeat it. He beat every able bodied kid there jumping and diving off the diving board. He may be disabled in the physical sense, but let me tell you his mind is not. He didn't let his disability slow him down. He seemed very happy and content doing his thing. Hats off to him and his parents for not allowing his disability become him.

Every child is perfect. Every child is different. It botheres me to hear a expectant parent say they don't care if the child is a boy or a girl "as long as it is healthy". I always want to ask them "and if it's not, what are you going to do about it?". WTF It's a child, not a toy you can return to the box if it's defective.

If this is the direction medicine is going to go, I soon forsee onlypeople that can't afford IVF having disabled children that they can't afford to raise while the rich people choose their perfect IVF child to carry while the richy, rich folks kill off the "non-perfect" children. Those that choose to get pregnant the old fashioned way won't have the oppurtunity to choose their future child.

 

[vraiblonde]

After reading some of the comments, some people really scare me. I can't help but think of the young man I saw this weekend. He obviously was born with major birth defects. He had no legs, only about 6 inch stubs from his torso on both sides and no arms, only stubs to about his elbows. I truly believe that most of you would have aborted him had you known how he would have been born. But let me tell you something. I watched in amazment how that young man managed to waddle around the pool on his nubs, climb a 5 meter diving board, and proceed to do 1 1/2 back summersalts from the diving board, swim to the edge, heave himself out of the water and repeat it. He beat every able bodied kid there jumping and diving off the diving board. He may be disabled in the physical sense, but let me tell you his mind is not. He didn't let his disability slow him down. He seemed very happy and content doing his thing. Hats off to him and his parents for not allowing his disability become him.

So what? What if he were still him, but without physical defects? Don't you believe he, or anyone, would choose that? Or do you feel that his disability defines him?

Every child is perfect. Every child is different. It botheres me to hear a expectant parent say they don't care if the child is a boy or a girl "as long as it is healthy". I always want to ask them "and if it's not, what are you going to do about it?". WTF It's a child, not a toy you can return to the box if it's defective.

So you think it's bad for parents to wish for a healthy child?

Help me understand this.

 

[acommondisaster]

What's a defect? And who gets to pick out what should be considered a defect and what is normal?

The IRS.

 

[SoMDGirl42]

So what? What if he were still him, but without physical defects? Don't you believe he, or anyone, would choose that? Or do you feel that his disability defines him?




So you think it's bad for parents to wish for a healthy child?

Help me understand this.

I don't think it's bad at all for a parent to wish for a healthy child. It's the way they say it, and I shall repeat it for you.

"I don't care if it's a boy or a girl AS LONG AS IT'S HEALTHY"

They make it out to sound like if it's not healthy they don't want it.

How about they try "I don't care about the sex, we are praying for health"

 

[migtig]

The IRS.

Now that right there should be a frightening thought for anyone.

 

[SoMDGirl42]

So what? What if he were still him, but without physical defects? Don't you believe he, or anyone, would choose that? Or do you feel that his disability defines him?

and I have known people with disabilities and people with children with disabilities. Both have said they wouldn't change it. :shrug: How can you say you'd change your child?? You only know your child from how it was born.

I don't know. This subject is too deep for me.

I'll just slink over to the corner and watch. People watch.

 

[kwillia]

I don't think it's bad at all for a parent to wish for a healthy child. It's the way they say it, and I shall repeat it for you.

"I don't care if it's a boy or a girl AS LONG AS IT'S HEALTHY"

They make it out to sound like if it's not healthy they don't want it.

How about they try "I don't care about the sex, we are praying for health"

I think both sentences say the same thing since most times the choice of words leading up to "I don't care... as long as..." are "What are you hoping for..." so the work "hope" is implied in their response. They aren't hoping for a specific gender... they are just hoping for a healthy baby.