Curbing stall/divider kicking before am feedings

[Wait4It..boom]

It's been awhile since I've been on here. Who knew buying a farm would consume all my time to check my horse sites :shrug:

I've got a question for anyone that may have some experience or ideas to rid the new unwanted behavior. Just got a new horse about a month ago. So far he's been great with the exception of the recent (last few days) naughty habit of kicking the stall divider between him and the horse next to him. He only does it before the am feeding as I'm filling feed buckets. He's a smart little buggar and waits to throw his tantrum until I've walked into the tack room and am out of sight. If I poke my head back out to fuss at him he's standing around like nothing happened (making it hard to catch him "in the act").

He's the lowest man in the herd. He's quite the coward because he wouldn't dare challenge this horse in the field (kicking at the divider is 'safe' because the other guy can't get to him). The other horse just stands there unphased by his antics.

Any ideas?

 

[Mojo]

It's been awhile since I've been on here. Who knew buying a farm would consume all my time to check my horse sites :shrug:

I've got a question for anyone that may have some experience or ideas to rid the new unwanted behavior. Just got a new horse about a month ago. So far he's been great with the exception of the recent (last few days) naughty habit of kicking the stall divider between him and the horse next to him. He only does it before the am feeding as I'm filling feed buckets. He's a smart little buggar and waits to throw his tantrum until I've walked into the tack room and am out of sight. If I poke my head back out to fuss at him he's standing around like nothing happened (making it hard to catch him "in the act").

He's the lowest man in the herd. He's quite the coward because he wouldn't dare challenge this horse in the field (kicking at the divider is 'safe' because the other guy can't get to him). The other horse just stands there unphased by his antics.

Any ideas?

See if you can hire someone for $15 or less per day to stand there and get kicked.

 

[Duckz]

See if you can hire someone for $15 or less per day to stand there and get kicked.

 

[Duckz]

It's been awhile since I've been on here. Who knew buying a farm would consume all my time to check my horse sites :shrug:

I've got a question for anyone that may have some experience or ideas to rid the new unwanted behavior. Just got a new horse about a month ago. So far he's been great with the exception of the recent (last few days) naughty habit of kicking the stall divider between him and the horse next to him. He only does it before the am feeding as I'm filling feed buckets. He's a smart little buggar and waits to throw his tantrum until I've walked into the tack room and am out of sight. If I poke my head back out to fuss at him he's standing around like nothing happened (making it hard to catch him "in the act").

He's the lowest man in the herd. He's quite the coward because he wouldn't dare challenge this horse in the field (kicking at the divider is 'safe' because the other guy can't get to him). The other horse just stands there unphased by his antics.

Any ideas?

I remember a horse that was bad about this. The owner used kick chains and it was pretty effective. If you google "kick chains" there are some helpful articles that come up.

 

[BlissfulJumper]

my mare did this for a few days but after the first day i would just walk in the barn put her halter one and put her in the cross ties while i fed and did my other morning routine which took about 20 minutes. even though she still kicked a few times in the ties it still wasnt tearing my wall up. She also learned quickly that the more impatient she was the longer i stood there and waited. it drove her nuts knowing my gelding was eating and she wasn't. that worked for her but probably wont for all horses

 

[devinej]

i like blissful's approach.

does she kick with front or back legs? if is front, hobbles can help. kick chains are for the hind legs.

just have to wait until he's quiet before he gets food.

or, for $15, you can get someone to stand by the stall and smack her with a crop or something everytime she does it. and not give the food till she quits for a few minutes.

 

[campinmutt]

you may want to try him next to a different horse ...sometimes that helps.move him around and see if he still does it

 

[Robin]

you may want to try him next to a different horse ...sometimes that helps.move him around and see if he still does it

This worked for my mare. just shuffled the horses in the stall till we got a quiet reaction.

 

[happyappygirl]

...or, for $15, you can get someone to stand by the stall and smack her with a crop or something everytime she does it. and not give the food till she quits for a few minutes.

You don't have to smack the horse, you can whack the stall hard and loud, but the timing has to be perfect so she relates the behavior to the reprimand, and the sound has to make her think she's gonna DIE every single time she does it. That's not easy for the average human. RC stands at the stall door with a dressage whip, yells and taps the offending leg as soon as it's lifted. Clinton Anderson recommends his horse collar zapper thing, but again, timing is critical, and I personally don't think it's a permanent solution.

I like Blissful's idea, however, in the interest of time (of which i don't have alot to spare) I wouldn't take her out of the stall to crosstie, I'd snub her up to a sturdy tie ring in the corner of the stall, then just feed her after you feed the others. This will teach her patience. I'd use a corner feeder (not a bucket) and also put stall mats on the walls and floor in the corner you have the tie ring, that way if she paws, she won't hurt herself or the walls or dig a hole in the floor, and having her nose in the corner won't allow her to make contact with the walls, with a hind leg.

It never hurts to tie a horse for several hours each day, and those lessons they teach themselves, are the ones they retain so tie the horse, go have breakfast or take a shower, then come back and let her off. She'll be better off for it.

 

[Duckz]

It never hurts to tie a horse for several hours each day, and those lessons they teach themselves, are the ones they retain so tie the horse, go have breakfast or take a shower, then come back and let her off. She'll be better off for it.

I would be careful about tying and leaving the horse without supervision, especially if you're using a rope halter instead of a breakaway. I understand that tying horses and letting them "figure it out" can have it's benefits but too much can go wrong when a horse panics and no one is around.

Banging on the wall or using a dressage whip could work wonders on a sensitive horse, but as mentioned it would take really good timing.

 

[paintedpony1234]

my dad and I are building our stalls right now.. we have a pony that kicks.. we used rough cut 2x6s in our stalls.. one crack at those and she was like.. "ouch man that hurt!"

but i recommend moving the feed buckets so horses are eating on separate ends of the stalls.. so one horse is on the far right of his stall and the horse to the left of him is eating on the far left of his stall.. put the kicker either on the far right corner the barn or far left so he only has one stall mate..

 

[Pasofever]

I would be careful about tying and leaving the horse without supervision, especially if you're using a rope halter instead of a breakaway. I understand that tying horses and letting them "figure it out" can have it's benefits but too much can go wrong when a horse panics and no one is around.

Banging on the wall or using a dressage whip could work wonders on a sensitive horse, but as mentioned it would take really good timing.

Most well known trainers at least in WP will "hang" a horse from the wall for hours a day...with no ill effect..when I am working my boy he gets ridden then I "hang" him from the wall for an hour to several hours...I leave him alone in his stall chained to the wall...sometimes I even forget him and it is longer as Devine this is a very well behaved and patient boy...

ps I like the idea of the leg chains I think that is what I would do too

 

[happyappygirl]

I would be careful about tying and leaving the horse without supervision, especially if you're using a rope halter instead of a breakaway. I understand that tying horses and letting them "figure it out" can have it's benefits but too much can go wrong when a horse panics and no one is around.

Banging on the wall or using a dressage whip could work wonders on a sensitive horse, but as mentioned it would take really good timing.

If you're concerned about setting back, then use tie a tie blocker.

In a stall, the horse can only back up so far, then there's a wall to bump. if they're not in a stall, I'll put a knot in a smooth lead, so it can't pull so far through they will trip over the line, but about 3/4 the length of an average 6' lead is usually as far as any has ever set back on me, which isn't far enough to get their legs tangled. They'll go right back up to the bucket to eat when they've set back as far as they want, anyways.

All mine tie for hours too.

 

[XSalute]

My mare used to kick at feeding time. We did the stall shuffle, made sure the feeding buckets were on opposite sides and fed her first. She doesn't do it anymore (been nearly three years). I knew someone who did the wait until they calm down approach, but it only made the horse more frantic about getting its food. But every horse is different.

 

[devinej]

here's some learning theory:

horses and other animals will make up a ritual that they think they have to do in order to get fed. also called a superstitious behavior. very hard to get rid of.

when you are trying to get rid of an unwanted behavior, one method to use is extinction. this means that when they present the behavior, you don't allow them to have "what they want"

like a kid having a tantrum, ignore them until they stop. however, the behavior will always get worse before it gets better. this is called an extinction burst. basically the horse/kid tries harder to get what they want. so you have to wait that out too, if this is your method. if you give in before the extinction burst is over, you reinforce the behavior and you reinforce persistance in the behavior.

just hypothesizing here, but to use extinction as your method, or waiting for them to stop, maybe not feeding on the days that they kick, and only feeding them on the days they don't kick would make it actually work. course you wouldn't want to do this if your horse really needs his food!

 

[2baymares]

I'd move feeding bucket location first. Get horse out of sites of the other horse. If feed bucket is permanent corner bucket type then maybe put a solid barrier (plywood or tarp) up at feed bucket area so horse cannot easily see other horse.
Along with: Immediately telling horse "NO" when you hear him kicking the wall. He/she will here your "NO" command...then you can walk or run to the stall and smack the wall to startle him/her. If smacking the wall doesn't get his attention, use a louder noise maker... Like shaking a can with rocks in it. The horse will soon associate your "NO" with unpleasantness about to come. The quicker you can get to the stall the better. Of course you must teach the horse what "NO" means but that can be accomplished in-hand. If you can be consistant with your commands he will get it and stop kicking the wall.

 

[BlissfulJumper]

Most well known trainers at least in WP will "hang" a horse from the wall for hours a day...with no ill effect..when I am working my boy he gets ridden then I "hang" him from the wall for an hour to several hours...I leave him alone in his stall chained to the wall...sometimes I even forget him and it is longer as Devine this is a very well behaved and patient boy...

ps I like the idea of the leg chains I think that is what I would do too

We use the same method in HUS and in the QH circuit. at first I was hesitant but now I love it. My mare got a lot of benefits from this method and I still use it! Depending on how she acts during the ride depends on length and if she stays tacked up while "hung" or not

 

[BlissfulJumper]

You don't have to smack the horse, you can whack the stall hard and loud, but the timing has to be perfect so she relates the behavior to the reprimand, and the sound has to make her think she's gonna DIE every single time she does it. That's not easy for the average human. RC stands at the stall door with a dressage whip, yells and taps the offending leg as soon as it's lifted. Clinton Anderson recommends his horse collar zapper thing, but again, timing is critical, and I personally don't think it's a permanent solution.

I like Blissful's idea, however, in the interest of time (of which i don't have alot to spare) I wouldn't take her out of the stall to crosstie, I'd snub her up to a sturdy tie ring in the corner of the stall, then just feed her after you feed the others. This will teach her patience. I'd use a corner feeder (not a bucket) and also put stall mats on the walls and floor in the corner you have the tie ring, that way if she paws, she won't hurt herself or the walls or dig a hole in the floor, and having her nose in the corner won't allow her to make contact with the walls, with a hind leg.

It never hurts to tie a horse for several hours each day, and those lessons they teach themselves, are the ones they retain so tie the horse, go have breakfast or take a shower, then come back and let her off. She'll be better off for it.

I tried to tie her in the stall and she kicked the other wall that's why I choose the cross ties. She kicks air and doesn't hurt my way which I think is what the OP is worried about

 

[Duckz]

Most well known trainers at least in WP will "hang" a horse from the wall for hours a day...with no ill effect..when I am working my boy he gets ridden then I "hang" him from the wall for an hour to several hours...I leave him alone in his stall chained to the wall...sometimes I even forget him and it is longer as Devine this is a very well behaved and patient boy...

ps I like the idea of the leg chains I think that is what I would do too

Yep, like I said I've heard "hanging" does have it's benefits. My HP (hunter princess ) sensibilities are a little horrified by the practice, but to each her own.

My point is that I wouldn't recommend someone attempt this who doesn't have experience with the practice AND who doesn't have a horse that is already accustomed to it. I have visions of a panicked horse and panicked owner getting themselves hurt. Enlist the help of an experienced trainer to avoid such things

 

[Wait4It..boom]

The buckets are already on opposite sides of the stall.
The kicker came to me underweight and I'm having a heck of a time getting weight on him. He seems to burn it as fast as what the vet recommended. Not sure I could convince myself not to feed him on the days he kicks.

So here's my update and what I've done so far:
I've been taking him out of the stall immediately when I got to the field (in hopes of him forgetting the kicking patterns developing or kicking just out of habit). Same thing I do with my kids- redirect their attention to something different quickly. He's been my "helper" while I get food in everyone's buckets (he gets fed last though). I go into his stall while he eats (just to see if it's food aggression, which it hasn't been) and I clean the stall until I'm done. I keep the wheelbarrow in front of the door so he can't get out. And no, I've not been kicked nor has he even pinned an ear.

Another theory I have is that I originally thought it was the kicker that was the naughty culprit, but after some observations over the long weekend (was at home all day and not at work), noticed the "middle man" of the herd (I only have 3 horses and this is the same one that's next to the kicker) has been picking on and terrorizing the kicker in the field. May have answered my own question because then I started to notice "middle child" was also just standing and staring down the kicker in the stall. I assume now it's the new guy feeling threatened both in the stall and the field and kicking to get/keep his breakfast. SOOOO, I removed troublemaker from the field and put him by himself during the day. He's a very social horse and does not like being alone. After day 2, said troublemaker ("middle child") is very happy and eager to have someone next to him in the stall and hasn't been terrorizing. Both seem happy for the moment, kicker isn't pacing and making a MESS of his stall (this am was the FIRST morning there were piles of poop and not little pieces crushed by his walking). YAY!!! Happy horses = happy me

I was quite confused though because when kicker came and was put in the field, he and "middle child" clicked and were instant friends, grazing nose-nose. After a couple of weeks, a switch has flipped and "middle man" won't leave the new guy alone.

Even though I seemed to have restored some peace and order for the time being, when I bring middle child back to the herd, not sure if the same antics will begin...I dunno...