Death, Your Loved One, and You

[vraiblonde]

The Cheltenham cemetery thread got me thinking:

How upset would you be if you found that the grave, say, your parent was supposed to be buried in wasn't filled with them at all? Maybe empty, or someone else's casket, and I don't know how you'd find out in the first place, but say that happened.

Or what if you found that the ashes in the urn on your mantle didn't really contain your deceased spouse, but were just fireplace ashes or something?

I'm not sentimental about death or remains, so it wouldn't bother me one bit. I don't hold any importance in that sort of thing. To me it's more of a...I don't know, keepsake or something rather than representing the actual person. But I know many people are highly sentimental or religious about dead peoples' remains, so I'm just curious how freaked out you'd be if you found that you'd been decorating some stranger's gravesite all these years instead of your loved one's?

 

[glhs837]

Not so much, it's the symbol of that person that you are paying respect to, not the physical, I think.

 

[DoWhat]

been decorating some stranger's gravesite all these years instead of your loved one's?

Neither dead person would know that you were decorating the grave site.
They are dead.

 

[Merlin99]

The Cheltenham cemetery thread got me thinking:

How upset would you be if you found that the grave, say, your parent was supposed to be buried in wasn't filled with them at all? Maybe empty, or someone else's casket, and I don't know how you'd find out in the first place, but say that happened.

Or what if you found that the ashes in the urn on your mantle didn't really contain your deceased spouse, but were just fireplace ashes or something?

I'm not sentimental about death or remains, so it wouldn't bother me one bit. I don't hold any importance in that sort of thing. To me it's more of a...I don't know, keepsake or something rather than representing the actual person. But I know many people are highly sentimental or religious about dead peoples' remains, so I'm just curious how freaked out you'd be if you found that you'd been decorating some stranger's gravesite all these years instead of your loved one's?

Not an issue for me, most of both sides of my immediate family has been cremated. The only one who wasn't let it be known for the last two decades that she wanted to be placed in a mausoleum because she was terrified of being accidentally buried or cremated while still alive.

 

[MMDad]

I share your feelings about the whole thing, but I also recognize that everyone grieves differently. I can't stand the roadside memorials, yet there are obviously a lot of people who feel it's important.

 

[acommondisaster]

My dad had his body donated to science. My mom had the same sort of feeling about her body after death, but we couldn't arrange it, so we had her cremated. My sister brought the ashes here from WI (she has a funny story about airport security freaking when she told them what was in the box in her carry on) and we spread Mom's ashes in one of her favorite locations. We didn't have any sort of ceremony - we'd already gotten over the mourning and it took a few months to arrange, this was just a detail for us that needed to be taken care of. I brought along one of Mom's favorite poems to read, but my sister just wanted to unceremoniously dump her ashes, get back in the car and go grab a beer and some dinner. My brother didn't bother flying out from WA.
So I guess my answer would be I'd be pissed, because if I cared enough about a mortal body to plant it in the ground, I'd want it to be the one I thought it was. (and paid to plant). But since I don't care enough, I wouldn't be. Makes perfect sense, right?

My husband, a lifelong Catholic, was MORTIFIED (to put it mildly) at the casual way my family treated the dead and made me promise I would never do that to him. His family thrives on the whole Irish wake thing, that creeps me out. I'd be highly pissed to find out I planted someone other than him because I know how much it means to HIM. I would have to find him. Besides, he says since I want cremation, my ashes will go in his pocket when he's buried.

 

[Toxick]

How upset would you be if you found that the grave, say, your parent was supposed to be buried in wasn't filled with them at all?

I would be pretty god damned pissed off, myself.



Not because I'm sentimental about the mortal remains of relatives, but because disposing of the deceased is a pricey - and required - endeavor. So if I go through the effort and shell out the money to have it done, I expect it to be done right. And this kind of mistake is not comparable to forgetting to put mushrooms on a pizza. Mixing up a corpses or forgetting to put someone in their casket is a pretty significant snafu.

I think cremation is cheaper, but the same concept applies. If one pays a professional for a service, one is entitled to the expectation of having that service performed properly.

 

[Larry Gude]

The whole thing has forever seemed odd to me. On the one hand, I was taught you die and, ideally, go to heaven yet, when we wanna 'see dad' or mom or whomever, we go to their grave? Their spirit, their soul is supposed to be 'up there' or somewhere. Same thing with a bucket of ash. WTF?

I hate funerals and don't go 'visit' anyone at a grave site so, the question is meaningless to me because the last place I think of my departed loved ones is some hole in the ground or those absurd coffins.

And, while we're at it, I have yet to meet a funeral director who didn't flat out creep me out. Socially or professionally.

Best so far, my best friends mom, we had a celebration of her passing at my house and someone brought a peach tree. Long story. In any event, the sons passed out some ash to her dearest friends and they put my 'share' in the pot with the tree which we planted. I like that a lot more than a grave site or an urn on the mantel but, I can't say there is any aura or anything special about the tree, any sense of 'her'. I never got that from an urn or grave site either but, this seems so much more...un creepy?

 

[MADPEBS1]

His family thrives on the whole Irish wake thing, - Nothing wrong with drinking and celebrating a life ;-))))
I’d be pissed, not because of the heaven and earth thing, but because HOW hard is it, today SOME people just don’t care about the quality of the J.O.B they do, done half azzed… They are either being lazy and trying to make a buck by cutting corners, not doing the best job they can do or just don’t give a phuck.

We do have the dogs ashes, and it is nice some times to walk by and say Hi doggies!

 

[libby]

I think I'd be crushed. When I go home I lie down on Dad's grave because it does give me a sense of being near to him again. (geez, I'm tearing up as I even think about this)
That said, unless a pattern of negligence or criminal conduct developed about the funeral home, I'm pretty sure I would let it go. People make mistakes, even professionals (referring to Toxick's post) so it would hurt, but I wouldn't make a stink.

 

[Bann]

So...when my mom passed away, I had no immediate family here. My brother, and my sister's 3 daughters live all over the state of FL. My sister had passed the year before, my dad about 10 years before that. Those left of my mom's family members are spread out from FL to Texas. None of them were going to be able to travel here for a service. ALL of our immediate family (brother, 5 grandchildren, her closest sister, etc) saw her within 1-2 months of her passing.

I saw no reason to have a service either at a church or the funeral home, because she was to be cremated and her ashes to be interred with my father's at Arlington National Cemetery. That was going to take a few months, and I really didn't want to have 2 services. (she'd been in declining health since my sister's death a year before and she spent 2 months in Hospice. It was very draining) To have a simple service at the funeral home would have been at *least* another $1,500-3,000. depending on what I wanted. For whom? The 3 of us and my closest friends? Very impractical, so I opted not to do that. Being from a long time military family, the ANC service with an honor guard & chaplain was the most fitting and appropriate service for our family. We are not overly religious. A few of us attended a small "wake" for my mother's ashes at one of the meet & greets. She loved hearing about our get togethers and thought she'd get better enough to attend one, but never did. So we toasted her and I shared a few pictures. That meant a lot to me.

I was with my mom's body at the Hospice house until the funeral home came to get her, I watched the funeral home's representative take possession of mom's body (although, I did NOT watch him actually place her in the zippered blanket they place the body in - but the hospice nurse did). As far as the chain of custody, I am as certain as I can (95%?!) be the ashes are hers.

A strange thing did happen at the Funeral Home when I was making the arrangements, though. My BFF was with me, so she can attest to this. The FH rep told me that they needed to show me pictures of my mom so I can properly ID her and make sure they have the right person with the right paperwork, etc. MMM-kay. So she shows me a picture of a deceased person from the neck up - - and it was NOT MY MOM. It actually looked like a man, who oddly enough, looked a little like my mom, and I won't go into details about that. Suffice to say I recognized that right away!! I said NO, that is NOT my mom! Then they showed us another picture, which was her. I think they did that to make sure I paid attention, but who knows?

So...yeah. Who can really be sure? I have a paper from the crematorium which certifies that the cremains are hers, but who's to say.

I did also help place her ashes (in the container provided by the funeral home) into the Niche at Arlington National Cemetery - right in front of my father's. I recognized his container as being the one we were given in 2002. So I did see them together. We also placed a few personal mementos of my mom's & dad's into the opening with the 2 boxes. I think the ashes are just ashes and I wouldn't be overly sentimental about those.** I think I would be more upset over the items being stolen, for some reason.

**OTOH, I did NOT wish to have any of my dad's, sister's or mom's ashes to have & to hold in a container, pendant, urn, whatever. Nope. If something ever happened to them I would be eternally guilty and I didn't need that.

 

[Toxick]

People make mistakes, even professionals (referring to Toxick's post) so it would hurt, but I wouldn't make a stink.

I know that people make mistakes, but I think getting angry at a boner like that is quite justified. Like I said, it's not like they forgot your anchovies, or left you hanging at the bus stop. That's a significant lapse.

You can quite easily dish out five-figures getting someone from their death bed into the ground. There's nothing unreasonable about expecting care to be put into making sure that transition is error-free.



Or if not error free, at least ending up with acceptable results.

 

[bilbur]

The Cheltenham cemetery thread got me thinking:

How upset would you be if you found that the grave, say, your parent was supposed to be buried in wasn't filled with them at all? Maybe empty, or someone else's casket, and I don't know how you'd find out in the first place, but say that happened.

Or what if you found that the ashes in the urn on your mantle didn't really contain your deceased spouse, but were just fireplace ashes or something?

I'm not sentimental about death or remains, so it wouldn't bother me one bit. I don't hold any importance in that sort of thing. To me it's more of a...I don't know, keepsake or something rather than representing the actual person. But I know many people are highly sentimental or religious about dead peoples' remains, so I'm just curious how freaked out you'd be if you found that you'd been decorating some stranger's gravesite all these years instead of your loved one's?

Didn't this happen not all that long ago? Some crematorium was improperly disposing of the body and giving the family ashes from wood, animals, and in some cases mixed together with someone else's ashes. I bet this happens more than people think. I have tried to clean out a fire place before and it is almost impossible to get all of the ashes.

 

[BOP]

My dad had his body donated to science. My mom had the same sort of feeling about her body after death, but we couldn't arrange it, so we had her cremated. My sister brought the ashes here from WI (she has a funny story about airport security freaking when she told them what was in the box in her carry on) and we spread Mom's ashes in one of her favorite locations. We didn't have any sort of ceremony - we'd already gotten over the mourning and it took a few months to arrange, this was just a detail for us that needed to be taken care of. I brought along one of Mom's favorite poems to read, but my sister just wanted to unceremoniously dump her ashes, get back in the car and go grab a beer and some dinner. My brother didn't bother flying out from WA.
So I guess my answer would be I'd be pissed, because if I cared enough about a mortal body to plant it in the ground, I'd want it to be the one I thought it was. (and paid to plant). But since I don't care enough, I wouldn't be. Makes perfect sense, right?

My husband, a lifelong Catholic, was MORTIFIED (to put it mildly) at the casual way my family treated the dead and made me promise I would never do that to him. His family thrives on the whole Irish wake thing, that creeps me out. I'd be highly pissed to find out I planted someone other than him because I know how much it means to HIM. I would have to find him. Besides, he says since I want cremation, my ashes will go in his pocket when he's buried.

 

[Railroad]

The Cheltenham cemetery thread got me thinking:

How upset would you be if you found that the grave, say, your parent was supposed to be buried in wasn't filled with them at all? Maybe empty, or someone else's casket, and I don't know how you'd find out in the first place, but say that happened.

Or what if you found that the ashes in the urn on your mantle didn't really contain your deceased spouse, but were just fireplace ashes or something?

I'm not sentimental about death or remains, so it wouldn't bother me one bit. I don't hold any importance in that sort of thing. To me it's more of a...I don't know, keepsake or something rather than representing the actual person. But I know many people are highly sentimental or religious about dead peoples' remains, so I'm just curious how freaked out you'd be if you found that you'd been decorating some stranger's gravesite all these years instead of your loved one's?

I don't visit gravesites, and honestly don't know where any of my deceased family members' remains are. I know where the ashes went for one of two loved ones who died, and I'm pretty sure about the location of the other ashes, but it really doesn't matter at all. What matters is the memory and the changes in me which resulted from the person who inhabited the body. I think people waste a lot of real estate on the remains, to be blunt about it. JMHO.

 

[ohstate]

I've repeated told my husband that he needs to spread my ashes at Ohio Stadium. That way I'll have at least 100K people visiting me on fine football Saturdays each year. He says he'll put most of my ashes in the family plot and a little in the stadium.

 

[libby]

I know that people make mistakes, but I think getting angry at a boner like that is quite justified. Like I said, it's not like they forgot your anchovies, or left you hanging at the bus stop. That's a significant lapse.

You can quite easily dish out five-figures getting someone from their death bed into the ground. There's nothing unreasonable about expecting care to be put into making sure that transition is error-free.



Or if not error free, at least ending up with acceptable results.

Well, I didn't intend to criticize your position, because you are certainly right that we should be able to expect those we hire/contract. People will make mistakes, though, so I'm just saying that I, personally, would err on that side, assuming that there was not a pattern.

 

[Retrodeb54]

I feel that we do deserve the best possible outcome for our efforts in doing things the conventional, required by law way society demands. Those that provide these services should also be held accountable. Somehow regulated and watched/spot checked to assure certain standards are kept. I would be terribly upset to find my loved ones are not where they are thought to be.

All that said I must be honest in the way I feel about the process in general. The body is a shell to me "ashes to ashes". When we die I believe the soul leaves our body at that moment and that it is not us in the ground at all. Only our vessel to move our true self (our soul) around on this earth. Burial is only a form of showing respect. JIMHO

 

[MMM_donuts]

I agree with Toxick in that paying for a service and getting scammed or not getting what you paid for is traumatic in and of itself. Add that to the grief or personal attachment to the arrangement and you've got a real problem.

I'm not ok with people promising a service and not delivering - especially dealing with such a sensitive and expensive issue. It's not like you get a do-over when dealing with the death of a loved one so when someone messes it up, it's messed up forever. That's a pretty big deal.

 

[MMDad]

My mom was part of a class action because her husband's ashes were mingled. She thought she'd get a few grand but ended up with less than $100.