Democrats to back down on Iraq war conditions

wintersprings

New Member
"Dem's will soon give President George W. Bush the last war-funding bill of his presidency without any of the conditions they sought for withdrawing U.S. troops, congressional aides said on Monday"

Now that they see the USA winning...what are they going to do?

Get on the bus? Kinda late I would say.

Bush 1
Dem's 0

:lmao:
 

chernmax

NOT Politically Correct!!
Can't wait to see the short bus arriving with all the DemoRats claiming they helped with the success!!!
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Can't wait to see the short bus arriving with all the DemoRats claiming they helped with the success!!!

I tend to think they'll try that - if the war is won to everyone's satisfaction, they might claim victory (for something they were against from the beginning and tried to thwart). I suspect what they'll try harder to do is focus on jobs and the economy, which right now is their strong suit.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
See?

I tend to think they'll try that - if the war is won to everyone's satisfaction, they might claim victory (for something they were against from the beginning and tried to thwart). I suspect what they'll try harder to do is focus on jobs and the economy, which right now is their strong suit.

...they weren't against in from the start! They helped pass the IWR! I kept waiting for Hillary to play the one true political card she had against Obama; her war vote.

She could have said to Obama; "This is part of the reason I am a better choice for President; you talk about being against the war, yet you weren't there. You never had to make the tough, agonizing choice to send US troops into harms way, yet you made the easy choice to fund it when you did have the opportunity. You took the easy way out. Every single time. I made the right choice then and I will make the right choice in the future because I have been there and done that and know what tough choices are all about. You don't. President Bush and his handling of the war is the real problem, not that America will always face difficult issues. That is why I am the best choice."

She gave away her only significant advantage.
 

Vince

......
They get Obama in office and he'll claim the credit for winning the war that he was against. :lol:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Vince...

They get Obama in office and he'll claim the credit for winning the war that he was against. :lol:

...think about it; there is some truth to it. What would have likely happened absent strong public and political frustration with the way things were going before the surge?
 

wintersprings

New Member
Bizzare. Dem's taking control, then declaring they were for the war all along. Then take credit for Bush's work.

Truly a twist, thats comming our way.

Evil Bush, you set them up to take your win......
 

ImnoMensa

New Member
...think about it; there is some truth to it. What would have likely happened absent strong public and political frustration with the way things were going before the surge?

Well Larry I, for one believe that if the Democrats had backed the President and supported the war instead of telling the terrorists that we were divided about the war and the outcome, it would have been over a long time ago.

Terrorists listen to the news and they listen to democrats fighting the President and they figured out that if they caused enough trouble for a long enough time the anti-war, code pink, Cindy Sheehan, anti-American faction would become strong enough that they could win. They still think so and they are backing Obama for that reason.

Another factor was that they never accepted Mr. Bush as President , they fought his appointments , they said he was selected, they never,never, (Except for one day after 911,) acted like Americans and banded together for a strong America. Partisanship ruled the day. It still does.

A divided country cannot stand.
 

wintersprings

New Member
Well Larry I, for one believe that if the Democrats had backed the President and supported the war instead of telling the terrorists that we were divided about the war and the outcome, it would have been over a long time ago.

Terrorists listen to the news and they listen to democrats fighting the President and they figured out that if they caused enough trouble for a long enough time the anti-war, code pink, Cindy Sheehan, anti-American faction would become strong enough that they could win. They still think so and they are backing Obama for that reason.

Another factor was that they never accepted Mr. Bush as President , they fought his appointments , they said he was selected, they never,never, (Except for one day after 911,) acted like Americans and banded together for a strong America. Partisanship ruled the day. It still does.

A divided country cannot stand.

So you are saying, Dem's lied, and American's died. I agree, they made the war last longer, when a strong United USA, would have finished it.
 
R

RadioPatrol

Guest
Bizzare. Dem's taking control, then declaring they were for the war all along. Then take credit for Bush's work.



Why not ... GHB's Economic Policies were already turning the economy around when Klinton got elected ... but with the help of the LSM Klinton got all the credit ... and did little in 8 yrs to mess with those policies ... :whistle:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Let's walk...

Well Larry I, for one believe that if the Democrats had backed the President and supported the war instead of telling the terrorists that we were divided about the war and the outcome, it would have been over a long time ago.

...through this, shall we? If Democrats supported SDI we'd be further along than we are to ICBM obsolescence. If GOP'ers supported socialized medicine Hillary would have gotten that done in 1993. If GOP'ers supported the global warming farce, we'd be a signatory to Kyoto. If the enemy didn't fight back, they'd have lost by now. If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

We live in a representative republic, not a dictatorship. We have an adversarial political system. Your argument presumes that the right thing to do was to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and that everybody ought to go along, heart and soul, just because you, or the President says it's the thing to do.

Not only were there other options, perhaps better ones, perhaps much better ones, than invasions and occupations, not everyone was on board in the first place, nor should they be.

So, how does it work? If we agree we have the right to dissent in this nation,
what should have happened and was Bush wrong to try? No, he wasn't. He had enough support. More would have been better, but, he had enough to get congress's commitment to war. Bush's mistakes were his own.

Consider;

The 4th ID was supposed to come down from Turkey to act as the cap to Baghdad as 7th Marines and 3rd ID came up from the South. Turkey, at the last minute, refused us permission and 4th had to be moved, en masse, out of Turkey. Out of position, the plan blown up before it even started, we could have waited. Bush chose otherwise and we started the invasion. This lead directly to the chaos and looting and whatever goodies there was to move out of Baghdad flooding North and West. That had nothing to do with congress or the media. This was a HUGE mistake. This was red flag number one; A key regional ally had refused us.

When Baghdad was taken, US generals on the ground wanted and expected Iraqi military personnel to be pressed into service to help patrol and keep the peace. Instead, we disbanded their army and put 300,000 young men out of work. 300,000 young military men. This was not congress's or the media's mistake. Oopsie #2.

Members of the Ba'ath party ran everything in Iraq and were now out of power. We could have allowed the Iraqi people to decide who were the worst ones and let them deal with them and put the rest to work keeping things working. The administration chose to alienate all Ba'aths from the rebuilding of Iraq. Once all these people, especially the majority who were just doing a job, knew they had no future, the insurgency started within the next 72 hours. Was this congress or the media's idea? #3.

People like Al Sadr were allowed to set up little fiefdoms and assume local power, becoming extra governmental entities replete with their own agendas and motives. #4.

Add all of this together and, viola; instant insurgency.

All of this happened prior to 2006 when the GOP held both chambers and the WH. All of this happened when Don Rumsfeld was a rock star and the media ate him up like candy. All of this happened when Bush had it all.
 
D

Dixie

Guest
...through this, shall we? If Democrats supported SDI we'd be further along than we are to ICBM obsolescence. If GOP'ers supported socialized medicine Hillary would have gotten that done in 1993. If GOP'ers supported the global warming farce, we'd be a signatory to Kyoto. If the enemy didn't fight back, they'd have lost by now. If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

We live in a representative republic, not a dictatorship. We have an adversarial political system. Your argument presumes that the right thing to do was to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and that everybody ought to go along, heart and soul, just because you, or the President says it's the thing to do.

Not only were there other options, perhaps better ones, perhaps much better ones, than invasions and occupations, not everyone was on board in the first place, nor should they be.

So, how does it work? If we agree we have the right to dissent in this nation,
what should have happened and was Bush wrong to try? No, he wasn't. He had enough support. More would have been better, but, he had enough to get congress's commitment to war. Bush's mistakes were his own.

Consider;

The 4th ID was supposed to come down from Turkey to act as the cap to Baghdad as 7th Marines and 3rd ID came up from the South. Turkey, at the last minute, refused us permission and 4th had to be moved, en masse, out of Turkey. Out of position, the plan blown up before it even started, we could have waited. Bush chose otherwise and we started the invasion. This lead directly to the chaos and looting and whatever goodies there was to move out of Baghdad flooding North and West. That had nothing to do with congress or the media. This was a HUGE mistake. This was red flag number one; A key regional ally had refused us.

When Baghdad was taken, US generals on the ground wanted and expected Iraqi military personnel to be pressed into service to help patrol and keep the peace. Instead, we disbanded their army and put 300,000 young men out of work. 300,000 young military men. This was not congress's or the media's mistake. Oopsie #2.

Members of the Ba'ath party ran everything in Iraq and were now out of power. We could have allowed the Iraqi people to decide who were the worst ones and let them deal with them and put the rest to work keeping things working. The administration chose to alienate all Ba'aths from the rebuilding of Iraq. Once all these people, especially the majority who were just doing a job, knew they had no future, the insurgency started within the next 72 hours. Was this congress or the media's idea? #3.

People like Al Sadr were allowed to set up little fiefdoms and assume local power, becoming extra governmental entities replete with their own agendas and motives. #4.

Add all of this together and, viola; instant insurgency.

All of this happened prior to 2006 when the GOP held both chambers and the WH. All of this happened when Don Rumsfeld was a rock star and the media ate him up like candy. All of this happened when Bush had it all.


Good points! and either I either I don't get out much and haven't heard this one or it's hilarious "If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle." Thanks for the laugh!
 

wintersprings

New Member
Good points! and either I either I don't get out much and haven't heard this one or it's hilarious "If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle." Thanks for the laugh!

I agree, all good points, I wish the Bush White House would admit mistakes. But then the Dem Party (Part you left out so well), then went on a lose the war crusade. And Americans died in bigger numbers.

So keep up the good work, just put out all the facts, not a select few. There is blame for both sides.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Forget...

I agree, all good points, I wish the Bush White House would admit mistakes. But then the Dem Party (Part you left out so well), then went on a lose the war crusade. And Americans died in bigger numbers.

So keep up the good work, just put out all the facts, not a select few. There is blame for both sides.

...mistakes. Mistakes happen. It was a mistake to turn Abu Ghraib into a big deal. You can't plan for stuff like that. What I am talking about is huge, strategic blunders; things that should have damn well been covered in planning and should have had better answers. It's easy to deal with mistakes when the overall plan is good, well executed and successful.
 

ImnoMensa

New Member
Good points! and either I either I don't get out much and haven't heard this one or it's hilarious "If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle." Thanks for the laugh!

Geez last time I heard that I was riding my dinosaur.

But, Larry does make some good points there. Bush did make some mistakes, bad ones. No one expects a president to get a blank check when elected, but no one should expect the opposition party to work so hard for the other side either.
 

wintersprings

New Member
...mistakes. Mistakes happen. It was a mistake to turn Abu Ghraib into a big deal. You can't plan for stuff like that. What I am talking about is huge, strategic blunders; things that should have damn well been covered in planning and should have had better answers. It's easy to deal with mistakes when the overall plan is good, well executed and successful.

your real gripe is the USA win its wars, but has a hard time with the peace part.

I agree, and actually like that idea, as right after the Iraq war was won, the UN (Kofi) sent Bush a letter to please fix the Darfur (1 Million being killed) Africa problem. The UN wants the USA to win its wars, and then fix the place afterward. Thats our money they want to spend, and I liked Bush's answer. He said Frack no.

So a Million died on the UN watch, not our's.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Mensa...

Geez last time I heard that I was riding my dinosaur.

But, Larry does make some good points there. Bush did make some mistakes, bad ones. No one expects a president to get a blank check when elected, but no one should expect the opposition party to work so hard for the other side either.

...but he DID have, pretty much, a blank check due to 9/11, at least up until 2005 or so. That's what is so maddening about Afghanistan; We had huge world support and sympathy to just wipe out the Taliban and AQ and OBL. And that's what is so maddening about Iraq; there was way less global support hence way less margin for error.

The way Bush has played Iraq, well, it couldn't have worked much better for Iran.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
No...

your real gripe is the USA win its wars, but has a hard time with the peace part.

...we 'won' WWII very well and did very well post war and we did well because the wars were WON. Winning is defined as when the enemy has given up resistance. That can be achieved through any combination of sticks and carrots.

Once you choose the stick, you get on with it. We defeated Iraq's conventional forces in weeks, which was never in the slightest doubt. Then, we started a whole bunch of brush fires by trying to turn US troops into social workers and cops when the perfect apparatus for that, Iraqi military personnel and leadership, were just sitting there, waiting, begging and needing to be employed for THEIR country.
 
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