Diametrically opposed

[Beta]

Let's say a dear friend was, say, Biking for Bernie (you can see it on Face Book) and this friend had always been well left of you politically yet has long been one of the people always welcome in your home, always welcome in theirs, you'd trust with your kids or money, one of the people you always want to find more time to spend with and they're supporting, say, Bernie Sanders for President by, say, biking from Colorado to DC in 14 days, solo, to raise awareness of his campaign.

Would you support them by linking to their page, offering encouragement, give them a ride to the airport when they get here, work your contacts to see if you can get them some help?

Or would you see Bernie Sanders winning the Presidency as detrimental to you in ways you don't think, say, Dubbya, was? Or Obama? Or candidate of your choice might be? And, thus, not link to their page, not want to share in the reports from the road, not offer encouragement and tell them to find another way to the airport?

I am supporting my friend. I think this is awesome what he is doing be it Bernie or Bush III or Clinton II or Rand or Warren or Christie or whomever. He's sure as hell not doing the same thing and hoping for different results.

If they have a bike, why do they need a ride to the airport?

No. Linking something to my facebook page would be a form of endorsement of the subject matter I linked to not my friend. I should not be expected to endorse something that I don't agree with or believe in.

As for a ride to the airport... that would be a favor for a friend and in no way shape or form an endorsement.

As for working my contacts to get them help... again, that would be endorsement and I should not be expected to shake my connections tree for something I don't deem worthy of bugging them for.... I wouldn't do that to my connections.

Agreed. You can only "work" your contacts so often. Why use them for something you don't even believe in, or that could hurt you? That makes you look bad. I can't stand when someone bugs me for every little thing they want (think they need) or try to "use" me as a contact excessively. Those are the people that lose their connections. You shouldn't be expected to do something you don't believe in and risk losing connections who get pissed off.

If the person expects someone to respect their opinion, then they should equally respect the response.

First, I would ask myself how this happened, if it were my son or daughter. After spending 20+ years instilling my values and beliefs to my children, what happened to turn them against our family values. My guess is that this transformation happened while they were attending college (indoctrination mill). I have seen this happen to friends and it is sad, but I can't image how tough it would be with my own kids.

I'm going to take an easy guess and say that not all ideas & values in any household are always perfect/correct. Thus, when a son or daughter leaves the nest, the 20 years of brainwashing may take their toll and they'll be a clone, or heaven forbid, they develop their own ideas and morals and perhaps don't agree with everything that mommy and daddy do. Shame on those ingrates.

But in all seriousness, there's a huge difference between an important "value" like "don't kill people" and "you should vote Republican/Democrat/Libertarian/etc".

 

[IneedSkrimps]

Let's say you have a good friend, or even a family member, who takes on a cause that you are completely against and feel is detrimental to your own way of life. Example: you are a devout Christian and your friend becomes a Satanist; or you are a conservative person of wealth and your friend takes up Socialist wealth redistribution causes.

Would you support them in their endeavors?

Not "would you actively oppose them" or "would you try to thwart their activities," but "would you support them"? Give 'em an atta boy, congratulations, rides to a rally, express pride in their passion, etc.

Let's say it's your adult son or daughter who does this. Think of something that is not only the complete opposite of your core belief, but actually works to destroy what you believe in. Now pretend that your son or daughter has taken up that cause. Do you support them?

So basically your child supports gay marriage and you don't.

 

[vraiblonde]

OK fine. You were married to her. Not me.

Except that she's right. The topic of the thread is exactly what I originally posted.

 

[Smith]

My guess is that you didn't go to college if you think of it as an indoctrination mill. Sure, you send a Redneck to Berkeley and he is going to get an earful of stuff he didn't hear growing up, but the same could be said for sending a Valley Girl going to Texas A&M.

Pick a school that aligns with your values, and you won't have a problem. Or just avoid the overtly political schools.

That said, I went to a "liberal" college in California, and I can think of only one course that had any cultural/political bias whatsoever. And that was a general ed. course called "perspectives on gender" (basically men are the devil). I chose that course because it was the only one that fit my schedule and met the capstone requirement, and I knew going in what to expect. I got an A and I can honestly say I don't remember a thing I "learned" in that class and it has had zero impact on my perspective or my life.

The thing is, unlike gradeschool you get to choose your own path in college. You can be studious and spend your time in class/library, or you can ditch class and go to rally's and parties all day. And if you're afraid your child will choose the later, then maybe the issue isn't the school but how you raised 'em.

You guessed wrong. However, when I went to college the political-bias was not as prevalent as it is today. You really should take a look at some of the crap that is being shoveled to students now at many schools. My concern is not with partying, but professor's opinions being represented as facts.

 

[Vince]

Let's say you have a good friend, or even a family member, who takes on a cause that you are completely against and feel is detrimental to your own way of life. Example: you are a devout Christian and your friend becomes a Satanist; or you are a conservative person of wealth and your friend takes up Socialist wealth redistribution causes.

Would you support them in their endeavors?

Not "would you actively oppose them" or "would you try to thwart their activities," but "would you support them"? Give 'em an atta boy, congratulations, rides to a rally, express pride in their passion, etc.

Let's say it's your adult son or daughter who does this. Think of something that is not only the complete opposite of your core belief, but actually works to destroy what you believe in. Now pretend that your son or daughter has taken up that cause. Do you support them?

The daughter and I have opposing viewpoints on many things and we can agree to disagree. What we don't have is drastic levels of opposition on any given subject or belief. I brought her up to make up her own mind about things, i.e. religion, politics, etc. Example: She's not Catholic, I am. Always told her she could make up her own mind about religion when she got old enough, but don't criticize or fault me or others for the way we think or believe.

 

[vraiblonde]

You guessed wrong. However, when I went to college the political-bias was not as prevalent as it is today. You really should take a look at some of the crap that is being shoveled to students now at many schools. My concern is not with partying, but professor's opinions being represented as facts.

My first English Comp prof was a raging hardcore narrow minded leftist who used a lot of our class time spewing his nonsense, which is why I dropped his class.

My Sociology prof was the same. After that experience I decided I didn't really need a degree after all, since all I was doing was paying to listen to some leftwing nut blather for two hours.

So Hodr can say students choose their own path, but you typically don't realize an instructor is a political zealot until you're actually in the class. And you have to take the class to get the required credits. The English guy went so far as to give you a crappy grade if you didn't toe the leftist line in your papers. And don't get me started on the textbooks; they are blatantly biased left.

My algebra and statistics classes were ideology free.

 

[vraiblonde]

Anyway, the topic is whether you would support a friend or family member who was actively working against your best interests. I don't want to delve too far into political talk, because the conflict could be anything.

 

[inkah]

You guessed wrong. However, when I went to college the political-bias was not as prevalent as it is today. You really should take a look at some of the crap that is being shoveled to students now at many schools. My concern is not with partying, but professor's opinions being represented as facts.

Even my 14 year old is seeing this in high school. He asked me the other day what he should do about teachers who are teaching things that he knows are not right. At first glance, I thought he was being a typical snarky teenager, but as it turns out, he was noting the difference between fact and opinion.

 

[bilbur]

Let's say you have a good friend, or even a family member, who takes on a cause that you are completely against and feel is detrimental to your own way of life. Example: you are a devout Christian and your friend becomes a Satanist; or you are a conservative person of wealth and your friend takes up Socialist wealth redistribution causes.

Would you support them in their endeavors?

Not "would you actively oppose them" or "would you try to thwart their activities," but "would you support them"? Give 'em an atta boy, congratulations, rides to a rally, express pride in their passion, etc.

Let's say it's your adult son or daughter who does this. Think of something that is not only the complete opposite of your core belief, but actually works to destroy what you believe in. Now pretend that your son or daughter has taken up that cause. Do you support them?

I had a good friend when I was younger become a born again Christian. I was happy for him that he was happy and found something he was excited about but after 2 yeas of constant badgering by him telling me I needed to accept Jesus into my life and the only true path was the path to God, I had to walk away. It really sucked because he was a friend since grade school but I just couldn't take it anymore. I have no problem with any religion but when I say I am not interested that should be the end of the recruitment conversation. So to answer your question, as long as it isn't illegal, it isn't going to hurt other people, and they don't continually try and recruit me, I can be happy and supportive of any of my friends and families decisions. I know people that are Satanists, Wiccans, Catholic, Jewish, Communist, etc.. and they are all entitled to live how they want. I myself and Atheist but that is my own personal choice, I never argue someone else's beliefs because they are entitled to believe what they want.

 

[Vince]

Anyway, the topic is whether you would support a friend or family member who was actively working against your best interests. I don't want to delve too far into political talk, because the conflict could be anything.

You mean if my kid was going to be a terrorist or something like that? I'd kick her ass.

 

[Hodr]

My first English Comp prof was a raging hardcore narrow minded leftist who used a lot of our class time spewing his nonsense, which is why I dropped his class.

My Sociology prof was the same. After that experience I decided I didn't really need a degree after all, since all I was doing was paying to listen to some leftwing nut blather for two hours.

So Hodr can say students choose their own path, but you typically don't realize an instructor is a political zealot until you're actually in the class. And you have to take the class to get the required credits. The English guy went so far as to give you a crappy grade if you didn't toe the leftist line in your papers. And don't get me started on the textbooks; they are blatantly biased left.

My algebra and statistics classes were ideology free.

Well as you mentioned, your math courses were ideology free. As I was a STEM major, the majority of my classes were likely similar to your algebra and statistics classes. Only so many ways you can teach 1 + 1.

Perhaps if I was a sociology major I would have had a different experience. That said, the fact that you both recognized the bias and chose a different path I think reinforces my argument that the school didn't indoctrinate you. Unless you think that eventually they would have worn you down if you stuck with it. I suspect if you decided you still wanted the degree you would have put up with / ignored the BS or would have switched to a different school.

 

[Larry Gude]

If they have a bike, why do they need a ride to the airport?

Because he only has 2 weeks vacation and it is 1,800 miles and averaging 130 miles a day for two weeks, he'll probably need a little rest.

 

[Larry Gude]

Anyway, the topic is whether you would support a friend or family member who was actively working against your best interests. I don't want to delve too far into political talk, because the conflict could be anything.

And the conflict makes a difference in how people might respond. Or no?

 

[vraiblonde]

And the conflict makes a difference in how people might respond. Or no?

I left that open for discussion.

 

[vraiblonde]

Perhaps if I was a sociology major I would have had a different experience. That said, the fact that you both recognized the bias and chose a different path I think reinforces my argument that the school didn't indoctrinate you. Unless you think that eventually they would have worn you down if you stuck with it. I suspect if you decided you still wanted the degree you would have put up with / ignored the BS or would have switched to a different school.

I was not indoctrinated, however I was also in my late 40s, early 50s. I was pretty solid on where I stood with things and not inclined to hero worship my professors . The youngsters in my classes, not so much.

 

[Larry Gude]

I left that open for discussion.

And I provided a context asking of the Sanders thing, how he would be detrimental to you in context of the last two presidents and the likely next Bushton/Clintush reality we live in?
Do you honestly believe Sanders is going to do more harm than 43 or 44?

 

[Larry Gude]

What if he actually chops down the big banks to the benefit of Main Street?

What if he actually gets us out of the messes we made in the Middle East and the US better off for it?

What if he gets rid of the insane cost of school by making it public and 13th-16th grade cost $15,000, like public school, on average, instead of $25-35K like it does with the scam system Fanny is all about?

What if he actually comes up with an immigration plan based on reason instead of the free for all?

What we do know is what we're going to get, more of the same, if we keep doing what we've been doing. And if you're good with the way things are, that's fine.

 

[vraiblonde]

And I provided a context asking of the Sanders thing, how he would be detrimental to you in context of the last two presidents and the likely next Bushton/Clintush reality we live in?
Do you honestly believe Sanders is going to do more harm than 43 or 44?

Yes. He is more Socialist than Obama, who is more Socialist than Bush. That is the wrong direction, in my opinion. You are a Socialist, and that's fine, your prerogative. I am not a Socialist, therefore I won't support the Socialists and help them get elected.

It's that simple.

If you don't think Bernie Sanders is a Socialist, although he describes himself as one, or you don't think there can be any president more Socialist than Bush, then we disagree and I have no interest in arguing with you. It is interesting that you snubbed Romney for being too far left, yet here you are supporting Bernie Sanders. But I don't really care enough to argue about that, either.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yes. He is more Socialist than Obama, who is more Socialist than Bush. anders is a Socialist, although he describes himself as one, or you don't think there can be any president more Socialist than Bush, then we disagree and I have no interest in arguing with you. It is interesting that you snubbed Romney for being too far left, yet here you are supporting Bernie Sanders. But I don't really care enough to argue about that, either.

If Obama is more socialist than Bush, you have to admit it's in name only. Bush accomplished FAR more than Obama has in terms of what would otherwise, if he were not an R, be considered clearly socialist programs.

And I am not supporting Bernie. Webb still has my vote. I am supporting Bill on his epic adventure.

 

[Larry Gude]

Y It is interesting that you snubbed Romney for being too far left, yet here you are supporting Bernie Sanders. But I don't really care enough to argue about that, either.

I actually voted for Mitt. After seeing Christians snub him, that was one of the last straws for me with the GOP.