Did Jesus have Brothers & Sisters?

[baydoll]

Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. (Proverbs 27:6)

And all God's Children said:

AMEN!!

 

[baydoll]

According to the Church, not according to James. Its kinda hard to have a Messiah "belief" when the brother of the "Messiah" doesnt even believe in him.

Oh? Where did you get that interesting little piece of information from?

 

[baydoll]

Jesus was a prophet not the Messiah.

And whose view would that be?

 

[Starman3000m]

According to the Church, not according to James. Its kinda hard to have a Messiah "belief" when the brother of the "Messiah" doesnt even believe in him.

Not uncommon for you to have a brother who finds some skepticism in what you have accomplished or are capable of accomplishing. At least the Bible does not gloss over and whitewash the true interactions of people and shows that even in Jesus' household there was some disbelief. Even when Jesus performed miracles, the religious leaders claimed it was through the powers of Bezelbub (Satan) that these things were done.

I believe that not until Christ's Resurrection was James able to really believe the Messiahship of Jesus - just as Thomas continued to doubt that Christ had risen until Thomas literally placed his hands into the wounds of the Resurrected Christ which had been inflicted at the crucifixion.

Some Jews believed Jesus was the Messiah. A majority of those, that were around when the events could have taken place, did not.

Correct, the majority of Jews were influenced by the Pharisee and Saducee leaders who denied Christ's claim of being The Son of God, thus, the religious leaders influenced their own crowds not to follow Jesus.

The Bible records accounts where multitudes of people saw and partook of the Miracles performed by Jesus: Several thousand fed with a few loaves of bread and fish; healing the sick; raising the dead; and calming the violent wind and raging waves that came against the disciples boat.

The first-century group of Jewish followers believed Christ to be the "suffering servant Messiah" and His Gospel Message continues today throughout the world.

By the way, Orthodox Judaism still awaits the appearance of two (2) Messiahs; Moshiach ben Yosef and Moshiach ben David.

Christianity was a small slow growing belief system that did not come around until much later. After Jesus's time, and after the apostles were long dead. Those that were around at the time, who could have experienced the wonder, miracles, and amazing feats, did not believe in Jesus. It took the creation of the Mythos of who Jesus was (you can thank Paul) in order for it to grow legs.

Not exactly true. The original Apostles were at first skeptical of Paul's conversion. Paul (originally Saul of Tarsus) was a Pharisee leader who had persecuted the Christian movement and was on his way to lead another persecution of Christians when Jesus appeared to Him, thus, causing Paul to have a change of heart and complete change of life. This got Paul into trouble with the Orthodox Jews whenever he would meet at their gatherings to let them know that Jesus was indeed the Messiah. Many Jews and Gentiles became believers and followers of Christ through the mission trips throughout the Middle East and Asia where they preached the Gospel Message. This movement was an empowerment through The Holy Spirit of God.

Thats your view of it. Jews view of Christianity is vastly different. Jesus was a prophet not the Messiah.

Correct- to some degree. To some Jews (Orthodox) Jesus was not even a "prophet". Many claim and believe that He was the illegitimate son of a "prostitute" as taught by their religious leaders. Their disbelief in Christ viewed Him as a false prophet and blasphemer; grounds for death by Torah Laws.

On the other hand, there is a remnant of more Jews and Israelis than you may be aware of who are born-again believers through faith and acceptance of Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) As mentioned before, Christianity is a Jewish sect as it began with the Jews. Gentiles are grafted into the faith by the Mercy and Sovereign Grace of God, thus allowing all of mankind to partake in His Free Offer of Forgiveness and Salvation through the Atoning Blood of Christ.

 

[Starman3000m]

Not saying it was uncommon, but its vastly different to have a brother who is skeptical about the "gigantic" fish you caught down at the lake. Its something totally different to have one that doesnt believe your the Messiah. there really isnt a comparison.

Actually, it wouldn't be different if, after your continual doubting, you wandered down to the lake and saw your brother standing right next to this giant fish strung up by a gantry crane and people all around marveling at the giant fish your brother caught. You would believe your brother then.

That was the case for James. He came from a humble class family and even if he wanted to believe, the doubt was there that his older (half) brother could actually be the prophesied Jewish Messiah. Not until Jesus resurrected did James finally see the proof that Jesus was whom He claimed to be. Then he believed.

Its interesting that James was still a leader in the Nazarenes movement even after the "Ressurection". Yet the church approved Bible has him converting as a believer... wonder why that would be?

James may have supported Jesus' pre-Resurrection ministry, but it wasn't until after the Resurrection that James was wholeheartedly convinced of Jesus' being the Messiah.

So the people of the time, who had the ability to witness the Godly acts and prophecies did not believe in Jesus. Yet 2000 years later, following second and third hand accounts (not a knock, but it takes an honest look to admit) people today are supposed to believe?

On the contrary my dear friend - there is a knock.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Revelation 3:20)

And non-Bible sources have just as equal accounts, including his own brothers belief, of Jesus the prophet.

There are skeptics who will remain skeptics and through free-will choose not believe in God.

There are skeptics whose human understanding is met with an eye-opening spiritual awareness who then are able to comprehend the Truth of who Jesus really is.

There are those of different religions who believe in God (or a god) but not in the Divinity and Lordship of Jesus. They are among the ones who believe that they have the power to do enough good works to earn salvation. That was the case with religious leaders of Jesus time.

And it took Paul to broadcast the message and mythos of Jesus to penetrate areas of Civilization and centers of Religion (notably Rome).

All of the Apostles were sent to spread the Good News of Salvation through Jesus - so that the Message would reach the uttermost parts of the world.

And while not palatable to you that belief (different than your own) is just as valid

There are religious denominational belief systems today, as there were back then, that have their own interpretation of who Jesus was/is. The fact of the matter is: There Is Only One Truth.

I'm aware, but thats a convert it doesnt make your belief any more valid. Else Christians that convert to Wiccan/Islam/Buddhism/Scientology make their belief equally valid

Agreed, there are a multitude of religious teachings throughout the world that have a great many followers. All are different belief systems in some sort of deity/higher power. Some are even similar to Christianity but yet teach a different version and concept about Jesus that is not found in the Holy Bible.

However, according to the New Testament words of Jesus Christ of Nazartheth, it is He who is the True Way for man to receive God's Love, Forgiveness and Eternal Life by the Life that He gave in your place.

Jesus said: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

 

[Starman3000m]

All the apostles went out and spread the word, but until Paul devised/developed/created the mythos (not trying to get into a debate about who/what Jesus was) Christianity was a loose cult of followers.

Paul, unlike the other apostles in Jerusalem, did not know Jesus prior to the crucifixion. He claimed his conversion took place on the road to Damascus, where he experienced a vision of the resurrected Jesus after which he was temporarily blinded.

He is attributed for many epistles in the bible and for divorcing Christianity from other beliefs. He is/was instrumental in the foundation of the Christianity movement, notably for getting converts to shed their Jewish customs. (look up Paul and Peters conflict at Antioch).

Excellent, Nucklesack! I am impressed with your comments about Paul's conversion and the fact that He had not personally walked with Jesus as the other disciples had. Yes, it took a supernatural/Divine intervention for Paul to be converted because he was indeed a die-hard Pharisee intent on persecuting and wiping out as many of Jesus followers that he could.

As for Paul's writing of many of the New Testament, he is the first to admit that he was chief of sinners and in need of the Salvation that is offered through the Atoning Blood of Christ. He joined the group of Jewish Apostles to proclaim the same message but Paul did not change the Gospel Message that they were teaching. What Paul changed in regard to Orthodox Jewish teachings and customs was that there was no longer any need for blood sacrifices to God plus the fact that Paul was able to attest to other Orhtodox Jews about his encounter with the Resurrected Lord - proclaiming that Jesus was indeed Yeshua HaMashiach - Jesus the Messiah as prophesied. Orthodox Judaism today still discounts Paul's conversion because he preached what Jesus had been telling the Pharisees all along about their rituals and traditions and lip service to God while their heart was actually far from God.

 

[ItalianScallion]

[/I] Because of the many moons I have spent with Starman and IT, I am not above a few very frustrated exhortations, but I have never felt any compulsion to condescend to such witty remarks as the above in the course of a dialogue, especially towards those with whom a forum rapport has just begun.
Do you want to imitate the style of Star and IT, or do you want to learn about why (in my case) Catholics do what they do?

I don't see why anyone would get upset over this thread. It is, after all, a secondary issue. We can still get to Heaven with differing views on this.
LIBBY, thank you! You said I have style...

Oh? Where did you get that interesting little piece of information from?

I love how they insist that the Bible was written by men and, so, it's NOT credible but, then, they go and quote some MAN'S words to support their position...

Just cause i'm a Christ punching atheist, does not mean i'm ignorant. I just dont have faith.

That's right old buddy; you said it!
Just cause you're ignorant doesn't mean you have faith. Well said!