Did Mary Have Other Children?

[libby]

In Luke 1:47 She also acknowledged that she need a savior!
Although an honor was bestowed upon her to deliver the child, thats it, that is her only role, and thats why she is remembered, other than that shes a sinner just like the rest of us, not a mediator, not a queen of heaven, just another sinner saved by grace.

I think Jesus made that pretty clear too in Matthew 12:48
He replied to him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers", oh looky, Jesus said, he had brothers!
And if you want to debate it 12:46 says they were his brothers.

Why do you want to cling to Marryology when the church didnt even buy into that, till way late in history. When A pope declared it contary to the historical perspective.

Can you just spend some time considering the magnitude of being called to be the mother of the Savior of the world? I mean, we're not talking about a man who would be an earthy king or president. We are talking about God! The notion that, in the presence, in the household, of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, that there would be need or want for anything of this earth is just so...temporal.
Do you imagine that when you are in the presence of God you will yearn for sex? Yearn for more children? Be in want of anything at all? Or, do you think that we will finally understand all that God had hoped we would understand in our earthly life? I believe the latter. We will understand why He allowed certain sufferings to befall us. We will understand why He gave us rules to guide us on the path of life. I believe we will be so fulfilled in His Presence that there will be nothing else we desire. Mary had that in her womb and in her home and in her heart.
Mary was the first person in all of creation to know that the time had come. She bore God Almightly in her womb. What a ridiculous and magnificent privilege. She had no need of anything/anyone else, any more than we will have need or want of anyone/anything else.
In fact, your theology would affirm that very truth, that as long as you have Jesus, nothing else at all matters.

 

[Starman3000m]

Can you just spend some time considering the magnitude of being called to be the mother of the Savior of the world? I mean, we're not talking about a man who would be an earthy king or president. We are talking about God! The notion that, in the presence, in the household, of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, that there would be need or want for anything of this earth is just so...temporal.
Do you imagine that when you are in the presence of God you will yearn for sex? Yearn for more children? Be in want of anything at all? Or, do you think that we will finally understand all that God had hoped we would understand in our earthly life? I believe the latter. We will understand why He allowed certain sufferings to befall us. We will understand why He gave us rules to guide us on the path of life. I believe we will be so fulfilled in His Presence that there will be nothing else we desire. Mary had that in her womb and in her home and in her heart.
Mary was the first person in all of creation to know that the time had come. She bore God Almightly in her womb. What a ridiculous and magnificent privilege. She had no need of anything/anyone else, any more than we will have need or want of anyone/anything else.
In fact, your theology would affirm that very truth, that as long as you have Jesus, nothing else at all matters.

So you completely disagree with the verse in Scripture that states:

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Matthew 1:24-25)

IOW: The interpretation of this passage could either mean that:

A.) Joseph went ahead and married Mary but did not have any intimate relations with her until after Christ was born; or:

B.) EDIT: Joseph went ahead and married Mary but he remained celibate throughout the marriage - even after Christ was born, or;

C.) Joseph went ahead and married Mary but didn't know who she was at all until after Christ was born.

There Is Only One Truth.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I was going to post the link to this blog under a new thread. But since it applies here....
Bible Tidbits: 5 Reasons We Can't Go By The Bible Alone - & 3 Questions for Thought

You should never use "denominationally" biased sources for spiritual truth. Your chubby friend (who wrote the flawed article) has more than one problem: Not only is he VERY confused about the Scriptures, but he also has grammar problems... I mean, how ignorant of him to talk against the Bible when it wasn't even complied yet?

We were talking about her virginity and the logic thereof, not the assumption, but even so, are you saying there is no biblical basis for assumption?

There isn't but please, do tell. Verses please... I've always said: the Assumption is an assumption.

No, but she did have a little lamb.

"And everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go"

The notion that, in the presence, in the household, of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, that there would be need or want for anything of this earth is just so...temporal. Do you imagine that when you are in the presence of God you will yearn for sex? Yearn for more children? Be in want of anything at all? She had no need of anything/anyone else, any more than we will have need or want of anyone/anything else.

You're awful....awful pretty but awful confused.

Are we ever NOT in the presence of God? By your logic, no one should want sex or children...

 

[libby]

So you completely disagree with the verse in Scripture that states:



IOW: The interpretation of this passage could either mean that:

A.) Joseph went ahead and married Mary but did not have any intimate relations with her until after Christ was born; or:

B.) EDIT: Joseph went ahead and married Mary but he remained celibate throughout the marriage - even after Christ was born, or;

C.) Joseph went ahead and married Mary but didn't know who she was at all until after Christ was born.

There Is Only One Truth.

Don't ask me to answer questions when you can't be bothered answering mine.

 

[libby]

You should never use "denominationally" biased sources for spiritual truth. Your chubby friend (who wrote the flawed article) has more than one problem: Not only is he VERY confused about the Scriptures, but he also has grammar problems... I mean, how ignorant of him to talk against the Bible when it wasn't even complied yet?

There isn't but please, do tell. Verses please... I've always said: the Assumption is an assumption.

"And everywhere that Mary went, the lamb was sure to go"

You're awful....awful pretty but awful confused.

Are we ever NOT in the presence of God? By your logic, no one should want sex or children...

No, not the way we will be in Heaven. He is here Sacramentally in the Holy Eucharist, but we do not experience Him the way Adam and Eve did. Certainly not the way Mary did, and even the Apostles. They willingly gave up wives and children for His sake. With Him there is no need for anything else. Again, try to answer my questions. Do you think that when you are in the Presence of God Almighty that you will have urges for sex?

 

[PsyOps]

Knowing Mary was/is eternally a virgin is wasn't/isn't eternally a virgin means what in our salvation?

 

[libby]

Knowing Mary was/is eternally a virgin is wasn't/isn't eternally a virgin means what in our salvation?

I will try to get into this a little more tomorrow, but for right now I will throw this out. What does Honoring our Mother and Father have to do with our Salvation?
Fathers and mothers were given to each of us by God to help guide us to God. The family relationship reflects the familial love of the Blessed Trinity. Jesus Christ was part of the natural family that included Mary and Joseph, but He was also part of the Holy Trinity that the human family reflects.
There is order in creation and order within a family, and maintaining that order ensures a better life for all of us. Parents and children are called, by the Scriptures, to behave toward each other in certain ways. Can't look up specific verses at the moment, but should be able to within a few days if this thread is still going and has not been hijacked by "another Jesus" BS.

 

[ItalianScallion]

No, not the way we will be in Heaven. He is here Sacramentally in the Holy Eucharist, but we do not experience Him the way Adam and Eve did. Certainly not the way Mary did, and even the Apostles. They willingly gave up wives and children for His sake. With Him there is no need for anything else. Again, try to answer my questions. Do you think that when you are in the Presence of God Almighty that you will have urges for sex?

I will always have the urge for sex; I'm Italian...

Some of the Apostles were married you know...Peter was, along with most of the prophets, Moses & Abraham, etc.

 

[PsyOps]

I will try to get into this a little more tomorrow, but for right now I will throw this out. What does Honoring our Mother and Father have to do with our Salvation?
Fathers and mothers were given to each of us by God to help guide us to God. The family relationship reflects the familial love of the Blessed Trinity. Jesus Christ was part of the natural family that included Mary and Joseph, but He was also part of the Holy Trinity that the human family reflects.
There is order in creation and order within a family, and maintaining that order ensures a better life for all of us. Parents and children are called, by the Scriptures, to behave toward each other in certain ways. Can't look up specific verses at the moment, but should be able to within a few days if this thread is still going and has not been hijacked by "another Jesus" BS.

You’re talking about honoring our parents and applying this concept to Mary. I’m talking about believing whether Mary is a virgin or not. How does this belief that Mary is a perpetual virgin play into our salvation?

 

[PsyOps]

Do you think that when you are in the Presence of God Almighty that you will have urges for sex?

This implies that the urge for sex is wrong.

 

[libby]

This implies that the urge for sex is wrong.

No it doesn't. What it says is that God is everything we want and need.

 

[onel0126]

You should never use "denominationally" biased sources for spiritual truth. Your chubby friend (who wrote the flawed article) has more than one problem: Not only is he VERY confused about the Scriptures, but he also has grammar problems... I mean, how ignorant of him to talk against the Bible when it wasn't even complied yet?

IS--you are a piece of work. First, calling out someone else's grammar when you can't even spell is laughable. Second, your personal attacks (chubby friend) are unwarranted but since you started it...... Recently I was around you without you knowing. Look in the mirror dude-you are alone for a reason. Watching you at the church of the Great Red Robin is laughable--working the room like a snake oil salesman. Pastor without a church, a flock, a wife, etc. Your arrogant self needs to do an assessment of who you are at the core. Do it--you will find that you are not living the life that Christ wants us to lead according to the New Testament.

That being said, confession tonight at 6 and happy first friday!

 

[Radiant1]

You’re talking about honoring our parents and applying this concept to Mary. I’m talking about believing whether Mary is a virgin or not. How does this belief that Mary is a perpetual virgin play into our salvation?

Ultimately, it speaks to who Jesus is (everything about Mary is Christ-centered), but in the grand scheme of things I suppose it doesn't really matter regarding your salvation (Christ is who He is regardless of what you or I believe about His mother), so perhaps you should ask Starman what his intentions were in even starting this thread. I highly suspect they were anything but noble.

 

[Starman3000m]

SM--you are a piece of work. First, calling out someone else's grammar when you can't even spell is laughable. Second, your personal attacks (chubby friend) are unwarranted but since you started it...... Recently I was around you without you knowing. Look in the mirror dude-you are alone for a reason. Watching you at the church of the Great Red Robin is laughable--working the room like a snake oil salesman. Pastor without a church, a flock, a wife, etc. Your arrogant self needs to do an assessment of who you are at the core. Do it--you will find that you are not living the life that Christ wants us to lead according to the New Testament.

That being said, confession tonight at 6 and happy first friday!

Um - ya talkin' to me?

I think you meant your post for someone else; not SM, since I've never been to a Red Robin and didn't call anyone "chubby"

 

[PsyOps]

No it doesn't. What it says is that God is everything we want and need.

Shouldn't that be the case now?

 

[PsyOps]

Ultimately, it speaks to who Jesus is (everything about Mary is Christ-centered), but in the grand scheme of things I suppose it doesn't really matter regarding your salvation (Christ is who He is regardless of what you or I believe about His mother), so perhaps you should ask Starman what his intentions were in even starting this thread. I highly suspect they were anything but noble.

I don’t need to ask Star what his intensions are. He made them clear. He has made them clear all along. Star (as do I) believes Mary gave birth to Jesus, went on to become a mother and wife like most other mothers. I do not believe she remained a perpetual virgin, there is nothing to support such a belief in light of the dozens of references to the contrary, and I think it serves no purpose in our salvation and bringing people to Christ to assert such a claim.

That being said, I don’t care what you believe regarding Mary. If it makes you feel better to believe she was a consummate virgin and had no children beyond Jesus, and that keeps your faith more intact then who am I to question it? With all of these discussions I always ask myself: “How is this relevant to my salvation?” In this case, it’s not.

 

[onel0126]

Um - ya talkin' to me?

I think you meant your post for someone else; not SM, since I've never been to a Red Robin and didn't call anyone "chubby"

Ha! Mea Culpa SM.

 

[Starman3000m]

Ultimately, it speaks to who Jesus is (everything about Mary is Christ-centered), but in the grand scheme of things I suppose it doesn't really matter regarding your salvation (Christ is who He is regardless of what you or I believe about His mother), so perhaps you should ask Starman what his intentions were in even starting this thread. I highly suspect they were anything but noble.

The intentions are to establish Biblical fact that states Joseph and Mary were known to have produced children after the birth of the Christ-Child.

The Holy Bible negates all RCC tradition/claims that Mary remained a "perpetual virgin". The Holy Bible does not even address or imply any of the subsequent attributes assigned to Mary by the RCC which claim Mary was "assumed body and soul" up to Heaven where she now reigns as Queen of Heaven/over all things, is co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate, helps souls get into Heaven, etc.

The RCC is teaching heresy by misleading parishioners into directing devotions and prayers to Mary, the Saints, and the Angels when 100% of one's faith and devotion is to be directed to God through Christ and one's fellowship with God is through the indwelling Holy Spirit of God.

The Truth is: You have been indoctrinated to believe teachings that were added on as "extra-Biblical" and were not established nor even taught by the New Testament Jesus Christ nor His Disciples.

The RCC is no different than the pseudo-Christians such as the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other religions that preach "another gospel," "another Jesus," and in this case, "another Mary".

There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)

 

[PsyOps]

The RCC is teaching heresy by misleading parishioners into directing devotions and prayers to Mary, the Saints, and the Angels when 100% of one's faith and devotion is to be directed to God through Christ and one's fellowship with God is through the indwelling Holy Spirit of God.

It’s equally fair to point out that many Christian churches are teaching heresy when they charge their congregation to subjugate women or demand that if don’t have and exercise a ‘gift’ (such as prophesy or speaking in tongues) you aren’t filled with the Holy Spirit and saved. I’ve had people in even more ‘traditional’ protestant churches tell me that if I don’t pray with my Christian peers my faith is in question; even when I pointed them to Matthew 6:5-6 they would reject it; REJECT SCRIPTURE! I don’t know how anyone can have an honest concern about any one church without seeing problems in nearly every church.

 

[Starman3000m]

It’s equally fair to point out that many Christian churches are teaching heresy when they charge their congregation to subjugate women or demand that if don’t have and exercise a ‘gift’ (such as prophesy or speaking in tongues) you aren’t filled with the Holy Spirit and saved. I’ve had people in even more ‘traditional’ protestant churches tell me that if I don’t pray with my Christian peers my faith is in question; even when I pointed them to Matthew 6:5-6 they would reject it; REJECT SCRIPTURE! I don’t know how anyone can have an honest concern about any one church without seeing problems in nearly every church.

I totally agree with you in this regard. However, while there are varying "denominational" thoughts given by your examples, the churches in question are not "preaching another Jesus". As you know, there were even disagreements among the Disciples but they were along the views that pertained to matters that did not affect the personal Salvation that one receives through the New Testament Jesus Christ.

Otherwise there would have been no reason for Paul's warnings about following another gospel and another "Jesus".

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(2 Corinthians 11:4)

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
(Galatians 1:6)

I stand by the claim that, when compared to the New Testament, the RCC "Jesus" and "Mary" are not the ones of the NT Gospel accounts, and are, therefore, misleading parishioners into placing their faith in papal authority rather than the True Jesus and God's Authority in their lives.