Do any of you mix Christianity with other beliefs?

[AMP]

You read the words of God. Whether you believe them or not is your free will.

But I do beleive them, I beleive in Christ, poor and crucified. But there is an example. Word on a page, poor, but many Christians in the MIddle Ages died because of their definition of 'poor.' Some really reasoned that it meant He only had no power to legislate, others knew that He was destitute and kept Himself that way (and that is found in the gospel passage you quoted to me). That is why I have my faith, solid and separate, but I also have my questions and I do my research and I learn, and question some more. We may never know in this life what really happened back then, since we have just the four gospels, the writings of Paul and Revelation. I just have this feeling that there is more to the story but you can't prove that with the Bible because that 'more' is not there to analyze. That's just me though, and my small take on things.

 

[Hello6]

Nope. Just replying in order as I read the posts.

That's what you get for being the credible Bible guy.

Which cult or "alternative religeon" do you think is generally the worst? I think Jehovia Witnesses are annoying, but Scientologists just seem evil. I was wondering what one gets under your skin, or do you just not bother with them?

 

[AMP]

Rosary beads are from the Roman perversion of Christianity. The repetitive prayer it encourages is in direct contradiction of scripture.
Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through Him.John was the only gospel written by a disciple. He was there when Jesus said this. Some of the gnostic gospels also say this. And yes, most of the Jews will not make it. According to the book of Revelation, only 144,000 Jews will be saved, 12,000 out of each of the twelve tribes.

1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


Yeah, okay, see why I cannot take Revelation literally? I want to know exactly where those Angels were standing, the Earth dosn't have four corners. We know that now. If his vision was divinely inspired, would't he have seen a round Earth and moped on about that too?

Mindless repitition - that's why the nuns looked so spaced out when counting their beads. Were they really praying for the Conversion of Russia? Seriously though, it is part of Catholic doctrine and in Catholicism doctrine is more important than reading your Bible. They stress the importance of the Catchecism over the Bible.

I need more .

 

[2ndAmendment]

But I do beleive them, I beleive in Christ, poor and crucified. But there is an example. Word on a page, poor, but many Christians in the MIddle Ages died because of their definition of 'poor.' Some really reasoned that it meant He only had no power to legislate, others knew that He was destitute and kept Himself that way (and that is found in the gospel passage you quoted to me). That is why I have my faith, solid and separate, but I also have my questions and I do my research and I learn, and question some more. We may never know in this life what really happened back then, since we have just the four gospels, the writings of Paul and Revelation. I just have this feeling that there is more to the story but you can't prove that with the Bible because that 'more' is not there to analyze. That's just me though, and my small take on things.

We also have the Old Testament and the books of the New Testament by John, Peter, James, and Jude.

I could not find your example in any of the versions of the Bible I checked. The closest scripture I could find is

2 Corinthians 13:4
4For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, yet by God's power we will live with him to serve you.

What passage are you speaking of?

 

[2ndAmendment]

That's what you get for being the credible Bible guy.

Which cult or "alternative religeon" do you think is generally the worst? I think Jehovia Witnesses are annoying, but Scientologists just seem evil. I was wondering what one gets under your skin, or do you just not bother with them?

I have had Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses come to my door. They don't like that I can quote the Bible and quickly retreat. For the most part, I ignore the cults. I have a hard enough time yielding my life to the Lord. I don't need to take on additional troubles.

 

[AMP]

We also have the Old Testament and the books of the New Testament by John, Peter, James, and Jude.

I could not find your example in any of the versions of the Bible I checked. The closest scripture I could find is What passage are you speaking of?

No, I meant it was an example of how things (Christ being poor and telling people to give away their possessions) are taken either out of context or given too in depth a reading or too literally by people who want the Bible to suit them.

You and I both know I need to read my Bible more. But listening to you makes me want to delve into it. It also makes me right myself.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
Yeah, okay, see why I cannot take Revelation literally? I want to know exactly where those Angels were standing, the Earth dosn't have four corners. We know that now. If his vision was divinely inspired, would't he have seen a round Earth and moped on about that too?

Mindless repitition - that's why the nuns looked so spaced out when counting their beads. Were they really praying for the Conversion of Russia? Seriously though, it is part of Catholic doctrine and in Catholicism doctrine is more important than reading your Bible. They stress the importance of the Catchecism over the Bible.

I need more .

The idea of the four corners of the earth is quite common, north, south, east, and west. Actually the Bible does reveal the the earth is basically a sphere.

Isaiah 40:22
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

The "Catholicism doctrine is more important than reading your Bible" part of Catholicism is also against scripture.

Matthew 15:1-9
1THEN FROM Jerusalem came scribes and Pharisees and said,

2Why do Your disciples transgress and violate the rules handed down by the elders of the past? For they do not practice [ceremonially] washing their hands before they eat.

3He replied to them, And why also do you transgress and violate the commandment of God for the sake of the rules handed down to you by your forefathers (the elders)?

4For God commanded, Honor your father and your mother, and, He who curses or reviles or speaks evil of or abuses or treats improperly his father or mother, let him surely come to his end by death.

5But you say, If anyone tells his father or mother, What you would have gained from me [that is, the money and whatever I have that might be used for helping you] is already dedicated as a gift to God, then he is exempt and no longer under obligation to honor and help his father or his mother.

6So for the sake of your tradition (the rules handed down by your forefathers), you have set aside the Word of God [depriving it of force and authority and making it of no effect].

7You pretenders (hypocrites)! Admirably and truly did Isaiah prophesy of you when he said:

8These people draw near Me with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts hold off and are far away from Me.

9Uselessly do they worship Me, for they teach as doctrines the commands of men.

 

[2ndAmendment]

No, I meant it was an example of how things (Christ being poor and telling people to give away their possessions) are taken either out of context or given too in depth a reading or too literally by people who want the Bible to suit them.

You and I both know I need to read my Bible more. But listening to you makes me want to delve into it. It also makes me right myself.

So many theologians want to "read between the lines" of the Bible and find the "hidden meaning". Nonsense. The Bible was given by God to man so that we would know what He wants us to do. Jesus spoke to the commn people. His disciples were fishermen and the like, common men. Only Paul (Saul) was a religious leader, a Pharisee. Only the parts that have not occurred yet, the unfulfilled prophesies, are not easily understandable because they are not meant to be understood yet. They will be revealed in God's time.

I don't even like the word theology.
Main Entry: the·ol·o·gy
Pronunciation: thE-'ä-l&-jE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -gies
Etymology: Middle English theologie, from Latin theologia, from Greek, from the- + -logia -logy
1 : the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world
2 a : a theological theory or system <Thomist theology> <a theology of atonement> b : a distinctive body of theological opinion <Catholic theology>
3 : a usually 4-year course of specialized religious training in a Roman Catholic major seminary

How can someone study God? How can the creation study the Creator? We don't even comprehend His creation. The only thing we can do is study His word, what He has revealed of Himself to us.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Christ being poor and telling people to give away their possessions

I think this is a over simplification of a passage.

Luke 18:18-25
18A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’” 21“All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said. 22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 23When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. 24Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

Jesus knew that this ruler put his riches and power above God. Jesus was telling him that he had to put God first. This was the subject of the Thought for Today today.

It is not bad to be rich or powerful. It is bad to make anyone or anything more important in your life than God.

 

[dustin]

Contrary to what dustin posted, the definition of Christianity does not come from an individual but from God's word, the Bible.

.

I was just saying that everyone has their own definition of a word..that's all...:shrug:

I did not attempt to define Christianity.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I was just saying that everyone has their own definition of a word..that's all...:shrug:

I did not attempt to define Christianity.

I understood that. I am saying that God defined what a believer is and what is required of us for salvation; it is not up to us to define although many try through their "I have a different opinion ..." statements. Men try to define God in terms of the understanding and "wisdom" of man. How does the creation define the Creator?

 

[Chris_]

Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire. He did not rewrite the Bible. Some beliefs came into existence like the deification of Mary (female deity) and the trinity (polytheism). but you will not find these ideas in the Bible.

No, it was not rewritten. It was translated into the English of the common man at the time. They were as diligent as they could be to be true to the original meaning. I think the use of "wine bottle" instead of "wine skin" was a mess up since an old bottle does not split like an old wine skin when you put in new wine.

2A, if you say that the Bible was not rewritten, then how do you account for the fact the Catholic Bible has 11 more books than the Protestant Bible? A "re-do" of any work, including deletion of certain portions of that work would be considered a "re-write".

 

[Chris_]

Rosary beads are from the Roman perversion of Christianity. The repetitive prayer it encourages is in direct contradiction of scripture.
Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through Him.John was the only gospel written by a disciple. He was there when Jesus said this. Some of the gnostic gospels also say this. And yes, most of the Jews will not make it. According to the book of Revelation, only 144,000 Jews will be saved, 12,000 out of each of the twelve tribes.

So are you saying that only 144,000 of the Jews will "make it"?? Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, so I'm not understanding that theory. It just doesn't make sense, plain and simple.

If Israelies (Jews, in other words) were God's chosen people, then what about those of you who aren't Jewish? Also....we're talking about "God" here, now, if we're talking about Jews, NOT Jesus Christ. Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, and DO NOT believe that He died for their sins. They do, however, believe in "God" or "the All".

Also, this "Roman perversion of Christianity" was around WAY before Protestantism was "created" by a HUMAN BEING (not by God). And this has nothing to do with Scripture...it has to do with HISTORY. That's the way it happened, and doesn't have anything to do with "Faith"; it has to do with a calendar.

 

[Chris_]

1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. 5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, 6from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, 7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, 8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.


Yeah, okay, see why I cannot take Revelation literally? I want to know exactly where those Angels were standing, the Earth dosn't have four corners. We know that now. If his vision was divinely inspired, would't he have seen a round Earth and moped on about that too?

Mindless repitition - that's why the nuns looked so spaced out when counting their beads. Were they really praying for the Conversion of Russia? Seriously though, it is part of Catholic doctrine and in Catholicism doctrine is more important than reading your Bible. They stress the importance of the Catchecism over the Bible.

I need more .

Catholics also believe in Apostolic Tradition, which has to do with things that were handed down to the Apostles after Jesus' death and resurrection.

John 21:25: (KJV): And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should all be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

And so what about all those things that were never written down...."Apostolic Tradition"...the passing down of understandings, beliefs, and practices, through the ages, that were not necessarily written down...because, as Scripture says, "...the world itself could not contain that books that should be written."

 

[2ndAmendment]

Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire. He did not rewrite the Bible. Some beliefs came into existence like the deification of Mary (female deity) and the trinity (polytheism). but you will not find these ideas in the Bible.

No, it was not rewritten. It was translated into the English of the common man at the time. They were as diligent as they could be to be true to the original meaning. I think the use of "wine bottle" instead of "wine skin" was a mess up since an old bottle does not split like an old wine skin when you put in new wine.

2A, if you say that the Bible was not rewritten, then how do you account for the fact the Catholic Bible has 11 more books than the Protestant Bible? A "re-do" of any work, including deletion of certain portions of that work would be considered a "re-write".

The Catholic Bible contains some apocryphal books. They are not part of the 66 books of the canon. The 66 books of the Bible were established by 397 AD. The apocryphal books were added to the Catholic Bible. The Catholic Bible also contains some sections of text of other books of the Old Testament that are not contained in what is termed an canonical Bible. They are Esther 10:4-16:24, and Daniel 3:24-90; 13:1-14:42. These texts are not found in the Jewish Torah which is the Old Testament. As I understand it, they were added to reinforce some of the beliefs that were added by various popes. So it is the Catholic Bible that was added to, not the other way around. Where you come up with 11 more books I don't know. As far as I am aware, the Catholic Bible has 72 books and the canonical Bibles have 66.

Some other things that have been added by the Catholic church over the years are;
1) The belief that the nature of the bread changed at the Mass was not added until 1215.
2) Purgatory was declared in 1274.
3) The Immaculate Conception was declared in 1854.
4) Papal Infallibility in 1870
5) The Assumption of Mary in 1950
6) The Declaration on Non-Christian Religion in 1965.

Catholic Tradition, even the newly declared by some pope ones, are to be venerated by Catholics. As a Christian, I know that this is against scripture as I posted earlier.

If you want to explore this further, you may want to get this video. Catholicism:Crisis of Faith

 

[2ndAmendment]

So are you saying that only 144,000 of the Jews will "make it"?? Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, so I'm not understanding that theory. It just doesn't make sense, plain and simple.

If Israelies (Jews, in other words) were God's chosen people, then what about those of you who aren't Jewish? Also....we're talking about "God" here, now, if we're talking about Jews, NOT Jesus Christ. Jews don't believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, and DO NOT believe that He died for their sins. They do, however, believe in "God" or "the All".

Also, this "Roman perversion of Christianity" was around WAY before Protestantism was "created" by a HUMAN BEING (not by God). And this has nothing to do with Scripture...it has to do with HISTORY. That's the way it happened, and doesn't have anything to do with "Faith"; it has to do with a calendar.

There is a remnant of the Jews that will be saved according to scripture in Revelation. Hey, read the book. I am just presenting the scripture. Argue with God not me. I cannot convince you of anything nor will I attempt to.

You are right. The reformation by Luther, a Catholic priest, happened after Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Catholics also believe in Apostolic Tradition, which has to do with things that were handed down to the Apostles after Jesus' death and resurrection.

John 21:25: (KJV): And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should all be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

And so what about all those things that were never written down...."Apostolic Tradition"...the passing down of understandings, beliefs, and practices, through the ages, that were not necessarily written down...because, as Scripture says, "...the world itself could not contain that books that should be written."

Tradition was warned against by Jesus Himself as I posted earlier. What is more likely to change, word of mouth or written word?

 

[Chris_]

There is a remnant of the Jews that will be saved according to scripture in Revelation. Hey, read the book. I am just presenting the scripture. Argue with God not me. I cannot convince you of anything nor will I attempt to.

You are right. The reformation by Luther, a Catholic priest, happened after Constantine declared Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Let me apologize, first...I am not arguing with you...so, please don't take my words as hatred or anger. I do, however, enjoy a good debate! ;-)

I was wondering about what you said about how the Catholics "added" books to the Bible. From where do you derive this "fact"?

 

[Chris_]

Tradition was warned against by Jesus Himself as I posted earlier. What is more likely to change, word of mouth or written word?

I agree that word of mouth can definitely change, but look at the various translations of the Bible from the beginning. Remember, prior the the invention of the printing press, many centuries after the fact, copies of the Bible were done BY HAND...you can't convince me that there wasn't room for improper translation there.

In addition, go to a bookstore/library, and get your hands on a copy of a Douay-Rheims version of the Bible...actually, you can search it online...this was the original Latin translation, used by the Catholic church...it was done in 1582. Look through the book, and you'll find those "extra" books. Remember, prior to the Reformation, we were ALL Catholic! ("Catholic" meaning "universal"....it was the "universal" church of Jesus Christ here on Earth).

Then, go look at your King James Version...which, by the way, wasn't created until 1611....almost 30 years later. You'll notice it's "missing" a few books from the one that was used by Christians up to the point that a "human being" decided it needed to be re-written. That's because these humans sat down and decided these books didn't fit in with THEIR opinion of what Christianity should be.

Again...the Bible was re-written....by the Protestants, in an attempt to break away from what was originally set down by Jesus Christ...the Catholic Church. I'm not going to deny the fact that there was much that happened within the Catholic church from early on that wasn't exactly "Christian", but I just like to remind everyone that "Christian" is a word that has been defined by human beings...albeit well meaning ones...but "human beings"...not God or Jesus Christ. All we have to go on is what we THINK the original writers intended in their writings.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I agree that word of mouth can definitely change, but look at the various translations of the Bible from the beginning. Remember, prior the the invention of the printing press, many centuries after the fact, copies of the Bible were done BY HAND...you can't convince me that there wasn't room for improper translation there.

Do you realized that a scribe was allowed to make no more than one error on a page and no more than three errors in an entire work? A a single ink dot in the wrong place counted as an error. Not a lot of room for improper translation.

In addition, go to a bookstore/library, and get your hands on a copy of a Douay-Rheims version of the Bible...actually, you can search it online...this was the original Latin translation, used by the Catholic church...it was done in 1582. Look through the book, and you'll find those "extra" books. Remember, prior to the Reformation, we were ALL Catholic! ("Catholic" meaning "universal"....it was the "universal" church of Jesus Christ here on Earth).

The canonical Bible was established in 397 AD. The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.

Then, go look at your King James Version...which, by the way, wasn't created until 1611....almost 30 years later. You'll notice it's "missing" a few books from the one that was used by Christians up to the point that a "human being" decided it needed to be re-written. That's because these humans sat down and decided these books didn't fit in with THEIR opinion of what Christianity should be.

Actually no. The King James was a translation to common English of the canonical Bible (397 AD), which does not contain the books of the apacypha, and the canonical Bible was the widly accepted version among Christians of the day.

Again...the Bible was re-written....by the Protestants, in an attempt to break away from what was originally set down by Jesus Christ...the Catholic Church. I'm not going to deny the fact that there was much that happened within the Catholic church from early on that wasn't exactly "Christian", but I just like to remind everyone that "Christian" is a word that has been defined by human beings...albeit well meaning ones...but "human beings"...not God or Jesus Christ. All we have to go on is what we THINK the original writers intended in their writings.

I believe you are way off base here. The Dead Sea scrolls that have been examined confirm that our current translations of the Bible are accurate. The word Christian is defined in the Bible. Christians were first called Christians at Antioch.

Acts 11:25-26
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

At that time, the word disciple meant any follower not just the original 12, after all Saul (Paul) was not one of the original 12 and Judas was dead.

I am not saying that Catholics are not Christians. Some certainly are; some are not. That is the same with all people that go to Christian churchs. Some of them are real believers and some just go because (insert any number of reasons except to worship God).