Do you accept that the speed of light is the...

[bcp]

I read somewhere recently NASA was starting feasibility studies on 'Warp Drive' Tech ... or a bubble that allows you to travel faster than light ...... without the 'infinite' energy requirements

kinda what I was trying to point out, it would be possible with the right technology, but the problem is that in order to move forward, you either have to push against something to move, or be pulled by something in front.
If light is the fastest moving know thing, the it reasons that light would have to be involved in the process.
It would still require something moving faster than light to push you faster, so thats out.

however, I refuse to accept that there are limits to the universe, we are only bound by our own limitations when it comes to knowing how to work with the universe.

 

[glhs837]

kinda what I was trying to point out, it would be possible with the right technology, but the problem is that in order to move forward, you either have to push against something to move, or be pulled by something in front.
If light is the fastest moving know thing, the it reasons that light would have to be involved in the process.
It would still require something moving faster than light to push you faster, so thats out.

however, I refuse to accept that there are limits to the universe, we are only bound by our own limitations when it comes to knowing how to work with the universe.

Here's the key, space itself can, theoretically anyway, expand and contract faster than light can move. The speed of light happens within the matrix of space. think of it as the cosmological equivalent to a banks drive through tube system. Make lower pressure in front and greater pressure in back, capsule moves.

"Remember, nothing locally exceeds the speed of light, but space can expand and contract at any speed,"

Essentially, the empty space behind a starship would be made to expand rapidly, pushing the craft in a forward direction — passengers would perceive it as movement despite the complete lack of acceleration.

Best laymans explanation I have found.

How NASA might build its very first warp drive

 

[bcp]

Here's the key, space itself can, theoretically anyway, expand and contract faster than light can move. The speed of light happens within the matrix of space. think of it as the cosmological equivalent to a banks drive through tube system. Make lower pressure in front and greater pressure in back, capsule moves.





Best laymans explanation I have found.

How NASA might build its very first warp drive

If space is a vacuum as thought, how do you control the pressures? the bank example is great, but it works by creating a vacuum in front of the thing that goes through while the space behind it is left with pressure.
Im wondering though, if given a long enough run, and a strong enough vacuum in front of it, how fast could you get the cash thingy to go???

 

[glhs837]

If space is a vacuum as thought, how do you control the pressures? the bank example is great, but it works by creating a vacuum in front of the thing that goes through while the space behind it is left with pressure.
Im wondering though, if given a long enough run, and a strong enough vacuum in front of it, how fast could you get the cash thingy to go???

Well, you are not dealing with atmosphere, that was just an example. Ever see the "rubber sheet" way of thinking of space-time? In that example, you think of space as a sheet of rubber, and large masses stretch that sheet. Thought of this way, your warp drive is raising a wave behind you, except in three dimensions, pushing you forward. While the compression in front of you forms a trough that you are falling down. Since this expansion and compression is happening to space itself, it can happen faster than light.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gra...0OfOq0AHt0YGICw&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=785

 

[bcp]

Well, you are not dealing with atmosphere, that was just an example. Ever see the "rubber sheet" way of thinking of space-time? In that example, you think of space as a sheet of rubber, and large masses stretch that sheet. Thought of this way, your warp drive is raising a wave behind you, except in three dimensions, pushing you forward. While the compression in front of you forms a trough that you are falling down. Since this expansion and compression is happening to space itself, it can happen faster than light.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gra...0OfOq0AHt0YGICw&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=785

I pondered that after I made my last post, perhaps not as well put as you just did, however I thought that I might be thinking backwards. I was thinking how do you create a greater vacuum in front of you, when in reality it would be an easier task to create pressure from behind and just use the natural vacuum that you had to work with.

But I do think that it would (way in the future) be totally reasonable to think that the speed of light could be broken.

now the next question, as you move forward, one would think that whatever speed the craft is moving, the ability to see or pick up items way in front would be the next challenge, so, once the speed of light is overcome, then the speed of whatever you are in would have to be overcome once again in order to have a line of sight.

 

[Merlin99]

Well, you are not dealing with atmosphere, that was just an example. Ever see the "rubber sheet" way of thinking of space-time? In that example, you think of space as a sheet of rubber, and large masses stretch that sheet. Thought of this way, your warp drive is raising a wave behind you, except in three dimensions, pushing you forward. While the compression in front of you forms a trough that you are falling down. Since this expansion and compression is happening to space itself, it can happen faster than light.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gra...0OfOq0AHt0YGICw&ved=0CFAQsAQ&biw=1440&bih=785

Your explanation sounds a lot like surfing.

 

[Pushrod]

Until the math shows differently, the energy required to travel at the speed of light would be infinit, so, theoretically, that speed cannot be attained.

 

[blacklabman]

I pondered that after I made my last post, perhaps not as well put as you just did, however I thought that I might be thinking backwards. I was thinking how do you create a greater vacuum in front of you, when in reality it would be an easier task to create pressure from behind and just use the natural vacuum that you had to work with.

But I do think that it would (way in the future) be totally reasonable to think that the speed of light could be broken.

now the next question, as you move forward, one would think that whatever speed the craft is moving, the ability to see or pick up items way in front would be the next challenge, so, once the speed of light is overcome, then the speed of whatever you are in would have to be overcome once again in order to have a line of sight.

From your perspective, all EMR would be at the speed of light. That's why it is called the theory of relativity.

 

[glhs837]

Your explanation sounds a lot like surfing.

Until the math shows differently, the energy required to travel at the speed of light would be infinit, so, theoretically, that speed cannot be attained.

Merlin, it's hard to explain the expansion of space itself, which is what really going on. I'm open to better ways to explain it

PR, that's the point, light is limited by the nature of space. and that energy requirement is for light to make it's way through space. But it appears you might be able to change space itself. Think of words in a newspaper, the ink on that page is limited by the matrix of the paper fibers, it can't move anywhere. Transfer that ink to silly putty, and suddenly you can do stuff you couldn't do before.

this is basically saying we might be able to make space less rigid, and space can change faster than light can move through space.

 

[Pushrod]

Merlin, it's hard to explain the expansion of space itself, which is what really going on. I'm open to better ways to explain it

PR, that's the point, light is limited by the nature of space. and that energy requirement is for light to make it's way through space. But it appears you might be able to change space itself. Think of words in a newspaper, the ink on that page is limited by the matrix of the paper fibers, it can't move anywhere. Transfer that ink to silly putty, and suddenly you can do stuff you couldn't do before.

this is basically saying we might be able to make space less rigid, and space can change faster than light can move through space.

But that falls outside the boundaries that Tilted put into his question. Keeping all parameters rigid (no bending of space) speed of light travel and beyond is theoretically impossible.

 

[glhs837]

I covered that, all the discussion about a warp drive isnt about the original question. I do think someone will figure out a way to get it done in "normal" space, but it will be a parlor trick at best, like the human powered helicopter they built at I think UM, only done to say it can be done.....

 

[Toxick]

I read somewhere recently NASA was starting feasibility studies on 'Warp Drive' Tech ... or a bubble that allows you to travel faster than light ...... without the 'infinite' energy requirements

I hadn't heard that NASA has abandoned causality and reason.

 

[glhs837]

What makes you think they have? Have you read any of the articles about it? Note it's a NASA guy, and the inital experiments are being done at a NASA lab.

Warp Drive More Possible Than Thought, Scientists Say | Space.com

There is hope," Harold "Sonny" White of NASA's Johnson Space Center said here Friday (Sept. 14) at the 100 Year Starship Symposium, a meeting to discuss the challenges of interstellar spaceflight.

With this concept, the spacecraft would be able to achieve an effective speed of about 10 times the speed of light, all without breaking the cosmic speed limit.

The only problem is, previous studies estimated the warp drive would require a minimum amount of energy about equal to the mass-energy of the planet Jupiter.

But recently White calculated what would happen if the shape of the ring encircling the spacecraft was adjusted into more of a rounded donut, as opposed to a flat ring. He found in that case, the warp drive could be powered by a mass about the size of a spacecraft like the Voyager 1 probe NASA launched in 1977.

Furthermore, if the intensity of the space warps can be oscillated over time, the energy required is reduced even more, White found.

"The findings I presented today change it from impractical to plausible and worth further investigation," White told SPACE.com. "The additional energy reduction realized by oscillating the bubble intensity is an interesting conjecture that we will enjoy looking at in the lab."

Laboratory tests

White and his colleagues have begun experimenting with a mini version of the warp drive in their laboratory.

They set up what they call the White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer at the Johnson Space Center, essentially creating a laser interferometer that instigates micro versions of space-time warps.

"We're trying to see if we can generate a very tiny instance of this in a tabletop experiment, to try to perturb space-time by one part in 10 million," White said.

He called the project a "humble experiment" compared to what would be needed for a real warp drive, but said it represents a promising first step.

 

[GWguy]

All propaganda to get the right people with funding interested so they can continue to play.

 

[glhs837]

Could be, but I doubt it.