Does God expect perfection?

[2ndAmendment]

I know Dems but the unanswerable and debatable question I am pondering is, why would he make a standard that everyone falls short of?

To make us know that everything in our lives is reliant on Him. He is the Creator.

Can a potter make a pot to hold flowers? Yes. Can a potter make a pot to be used to carry the foulest of waste? Yes. Can either pot say to the potter you treated us unfairly because we both don't contain flowers? The creation has no judgment over the actions or motives of the creator. We have no judgment over the actions of our Creator.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Why would God then create us if we were almost a waste of time being not perfect in his eyes?

We were created to fellowship with God and love Him. We were to be His companions. We were created perfect and in His image. We were also created with free will because the love of a creature that cannot choose to love or not love is not of any value; we are free to choose to love God or not love Him. We are free to obey Him or not obey Him. It is that freedom of choice that makes our love and obedience of value.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So in other words, It's God's fault that we're not perfect?

Nope. It is our free will choice to not obey God that makes us imperfect.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Thanks for that bit of logic Penn.

But remember that human logic will never get you to a point of understanding. As I have posted before, you have faith to understand; you do not have human understanding to have faith.

 

[Vince]

But God knows our heart, and all He has ever asked you to do, is your best.

I'm not a complicated person so I think I'll go with this one.

 

[Makavide]

I know Dems but the unanswerable and debatable question I am pondering is, why would he make a standard that everyone falls short of?

The question to ponder is what does God mean by perfection? I have always felt that Gods judgement for each of us will be different, he did not make us all the same - that his thoughts on my "perfection" will be different then his thoughts on how perfect you are. And that we will not now His definition of perfection for each of us till we meet Him.

I also feel, that it is the attempt at becoming perfect, through the love of God, self and neighbor, that we will attain perfection in God's eye.

 

[Dondi]

Sorry Penn, I am at the stage where I just have many questions. Why would God then create us if we were almost a waste of time being not perfect in his eyes?

Actually, in the beginning Man was perfect, until he disobeyed God. God will eventually make us perfect again (not in this life), if WE are WILLING. But He leaves that choice for us. We are complete In HIM (Christ).

 

[Penn]

The question to ponder is what does God mean by perfection? I have always felt that Gods judgement for each of us will be different, he did not make us all the same - that his thoughts on my "perfection" will be different then his thoughts on how perfect you are. And that we will not now His definition of perfection for each of us till we meet Him.

I also feel, that it is the attempt at becoming perfect, through the love of God, self and neighbor, that we will attain perfection in God's eye.

I just reread something from an author - that if we are lucky(?) enough to get to Heaven, we will in fact become angels. I'd heard of a line once:

"As perfect as angels"

Can it be that this is what we are striving for? Not that we're ever going to reach perfection while we are here on this earth, but in the next life - with the Father.

 

[dems4me]

Actually, in the beginning Man was perfect, until he disobeyed God. God will eventually make us perfect again (not in this life), if WE are WILLING. But He leaves that choice for us. We are complete In HIM (Christ).

Life is just a blip on a radar screen compared to eternity, but yet its soo important that we make the right choices.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I just reread something from an author - that if we are lucky(?) enough to get to Heaven, we will in fact become angels. I'd heard of a line once:

"As perfect as angels"

Can it be that this is what we are striving for? Not that we're ever going to reach perfection while we are here on this earth, but in the next life - with the Father.

NO!!!

That is why I have told you before to be careful of what you base your belief on. The angels were created before mankind. We were created to be above the angels; that is one of the things that angered Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels and made them revolt against God. They forgot that they too are creations. The Potter is going to "break" the "pots" or "refire" them if you will.

 

[dems4me]

NO!!!

That is why I have told you before to be careful of what you base your belief on. The angels were created before mankind. We were created to be above the angels; that is one of the things that angered Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels and made them revolt against God. They forgot that they too are creations. The Potter is going to "break" the "pots" or "refire" them if you will.

I agree but angles were used for coming down from heaven to reveal prophesy in the Bible to people, it was my intepretation that angles were more holy than people... What about guardian angles? Thanks!

 

[Penn]

I agree but angels were used for coming down from heaven to reveal prophesy in the Bible to people, it was my intepretation that angels were more holy than people... What about guardian angels? Thanks!

:fixed: X 2

 

[dems4me]

:fixed: X 2

why do I keep doing that thanks!

 

[Penn]

NO!!!

That is why I have told you before to be careful of what you base your belief on. The angels were created before mankind. We were created to be above the angels; that is one of the things that angered Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels and made them revolt against God. They forgot that they too are creations. The Potter is going to "break" the "pots" or "refire" them if you will.

Don't you just love it when someone comes along and has all the definitive answers?

 

[Dondi]

NO!!!

That is why I have told you before to be careful of what you base your belief on. The angels were created before mankind. We were created to be above the angels; that is one of the things that angered Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels and made them revolt against God. They forgot that they too are creations. The Potter is going to "break" the "pots" or "refire" them if you will.

I think the major difference between angels and humans in heaven is that angels never experienced pain, sin, and suffering in a physical body. Whereas we humans will always know where we've been. Perhaps it is in this sense that we are made higher than the angels in heaven. Plus our free will enables us to freely love God. I don't think angels have that free will, at least without consequences (think Lucifer).

 

[Penn]

I think the major difference between angels and humans in heaven is that angels never experienced pain, sin, and suffering in a physical body. Whereas we humans will always know where we've been. Perhaps it is in this sense that we are made higher than the angels in heaven. Plus our free will enables us to freely love God. I don't think angels have that free will, at least without consequences (think Lucifer).

Good points. I do wonder though - if the angels way back when - were not given free will as well?

If Lucifer turned against The Lord God, then he had the ability to make a choice, ie., follow God's commands, or follow his own desires. That smacks of free will to me. He made that choice, and was cast out of Heaven, if I remember correctly.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Don't you just love it when someone comes along and has all the definitive answers?

I use the Bible as my source.

1 Corinthians 6:2-4


<sup id="en-NASB-28470">2</sup>Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?
<sup id="en-NASB-28471">3</sup>Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?
<sup id="en-NASB-28472">4</sup>So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church?

The followers of Christ, Christians, are the saints. If we will judge the angels, does that not put us above them?


If an author or minister or priest or pastor or teacher disagrees with the Bible, then they are in disagreement with the word of God. I don't make this stuff up; they are not "my" answers. If you don't believe me, look it up in the Bible; unless you don't believe the Bible is the authoritative word of God. If that is the case, there is no use discussing anything further.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Good points. I do wonder though - if the angels way back when - were not given free will as well?

If Lucifer turned against The Lord God, then he had the ability to make a choice, ie., follow God's commands, or follow his own desires. That smacks of free will to me. He made that choice, and was cast out of Heaven, if I remember correctly.

Right Penn. The evidence that the angels also have free will is the fact that some of them rebelled. Lucifer is still allowed in heaven at this point in time. Refer to Job. Satan was accusing Job before the throne of God.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I agree but angles were used for coming down from heaven to reveal prophesy in the Bible to people, it was my intepretation that angles were more holy than people... What about guardian angles? Thanks!

Absolutely, angels are used as the messingers of God. It also seems that each child of God has a angel that watches over them (including us) and that the angels of the little children are contiually before the Father.

Bold in Matthew 18:10 added by me.
Matthew 18:1-10

Rank in the Kingdom

<sup id="en-NASB-23729">1</sup>At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, "Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" <sup id="en-NASB-23730">2</sup>And He called a child to Himself and set him before them,

<sup id="en-NASB-23731">3</sup>and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

<sup id="en-NASB-23732">4</sup>"Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

<sup id="en-NASB-23733">5</sup>"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me;

<sup id="en-NASB-23734">6</sup>but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Stumbling Blocks

<sup id="en-NASB-23735">7</sup>"Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes! <sup id="en-NASB-23736">8</sup>"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

<sup id="en-NASB-23737">9</sup>"If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

<sup id="en-NASB-23738">10</sup>"See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.