Dog Walking

[Nickel]

As you pointed out once, I may be over-anxious for them to learn, when it really may just take time. They are, after all, still only nine months old. Barely out of puppy stage. I just worry about them getting loose and getting hit by a car - I worry they will get into danger and not know it. I worry they will hurt our children unwittingly. And like any "parent' I worry they will be unhappy when I try to discipline them.

I didn't say you were overanxious, I said you were expecting too much from the dogs based on the amount of time you'd spent with them on hoaning their obedience. My dog is the same age as yours, and he doesn't have any of these issues, and hasn't for months. I took him to obedience classes for 6 one hour sessions (once a week), practiced with him extensively at home, and have always let him have unlimited outside time (we have a fenced in yard). He's a great dog. :shrug: I wouldn't dream of letting him off his leash, ever, but at my parents' house last weekend, we did just that. They live in a fairly secluded area, compared to my house, and he's always been a homebody anyways. He stuck right by us, because (at least this is my interpretation) he realizes that everything he has comes from us, from his food to his shelter. Will I do this on a regular basis? Absolutely not. Is it nice knowing that I can sit outside at my mom's house with my pup by my side, without having to worry about him running away? You bet.

 

[kerriellen]

You'd be surprised at what will wear a dog out. My dog is notorious for having boundless energy, however one hour of obedience training (which is not strenuous at all) had him stretched out in the grass, ready to snooze like a baby. We did a little beginner's agility, and after about 15 minutes, he was more relaxed than I've ever seen him. Stimulate their minds and bodies, and they'll be like jello.

Did you do the beginner's agility in SOMD? I was thinking of getting my dog involved in agility and was looking for a place.

Kerri

 

[Nickel]

Did you do the beginner's agility in SOMD? I was thinking of getting my dog involved in agility and was looking for a place.

Kerri

No, sorry, I live in North Carolina. It wasn't technically an agility class, my instructor just wanted to try some stuff out with him.

 

[misslady67]

Choke collars? My dogs walk nicely beside me and I've never used a choke on any of them. If there are no distractions a buckle collar is fine, I use the gentle leader if they're going out in public or where I need more control.

You have to work with them CONSTANTLY to reinfoce what it is you want them to do.

My dog is very well trained...and I've never taken her to classes. However, different personalities of pets require different methods of training. At one point (she will be 2 years old on October 1), my dog started pulling during her walks...I guess she was about a year old. I was using a choke collar...and she was choking herself NOT COOL. I switched to a pinch collar. They're not for every dog (read here http://www.canismajor.com/dog/prong.html) but for me it was a perfect solution. I still use it (only for walking) and she NEVER pulls.

 

[Cowgirl]

There's nothing wrong with using choke collars....IF you use them properly. First, they have to go on the dog in the correct way. If it goes on the wrong way, it will not release when the pressure is released. Put it on your wrist and practice. If it doesn't release, then turn the collar around and put it on the right way. It's hard to explain...but it's like putting a shirt on backwards. Also, your dog should not be straining against the collar. If the dog does something wrong, you simply give a sharp firm tug....do not apply constant pressure, or they will fight against the collar. I love the Dog Whisperer's tips. And someone mentioned on here that using a harness gives you more leverage against the dog....that is completly incorrect. The best thing to use is the halter-type method if your dog is pulling. Next is the choke collar, and last would be the harness. When a dog can use its entire body to pull you along, they know it. Harnesses should only be used if your dog already walks well. If you control the head, you control the whole animal. This is true for any animal. Horses and cattle get led by halters, not collars, for a reason. When you want a horse or ox to pull, you put a yoke or harness on it because they can get more leverage for pulling.

It really depends on the dog...all dogs are different. Some require lots of time and practice, and some just pick up on it quicker. You really have to find out what works for your particular dog.

 

[SamSpade]

It really depends on the dog...all dogs are different. Some require lots of time and practice, and some just pick up on it quicker. You really have to find out what works for your particular dog.

Tried the Halti for the first time last night with each of them, one at a time. They both sat patiently when I put it on, but once in the front yard, they fought it pretty damned hard. The boy eventually calmed down, and had the best walk I've ever had with him - he even passed three other dogs, kids on bikes, strangers in their yards - and totally obeyed. He got a lot of treats last night. The girl was a surprise to me, because a choker works well with her most times - but she not only fought like hell to get it off - twice she *succeeded* (she's pretty smart - she learned that the nose part slips off if she widens her jaw like she's yawning, and then used both paws with her face in the dirt to pull it off - then got a toe or two under the collar). Once I cinched up the collar a little more, it wasn't so easy - but it was obvious after about thirty seconds I was going to have to use a treat to distract her from pulling it off. Once I did that, she was good for most of the walk. She only fought it a couple more times before we got back. I think it's probably going to work. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to keep them separate to train them, because they're far too distracted when together, but they like to be together too much when I'm with just one of them. Bluejay says the other dog always whines and cries when I'm out with the other one.

 

[marianne]

I had a similar problem and seem to have it under control now, just a couple weeks after watching a particular episode of Dog Whisperer. But I should point out that my problem was the dogs would walk in front of me, pull me around too much, go in different directions, and get twisted up in the leashes. I don't know if that's the same as your situation as you refer to your dogs as being "laggers" and "draggers". So I'm not sure if it's going to help you any but here's what I did:

I got two Halti collars. I could get the Mastiff to wear the Halti and, after a while, walk with it. I could not get the Rott to keep the Halti on though. His neck is too big and nose too short to get the Halti to fit properly and he'd just paw it off. Seems to be the same as what you've experienced thus far.

I got leads that have handles just a few inches from the collar. So I'm not constantly wrapping and unwrapping long leashes. The retractable leashes I saw didn't handle the weight of the dogs so I couldn't use those.

Once the Mastiff got somewhat used to the Halti collar, I put him on one side of me, the Rott on the other side, held onto the short handles on the leads, kept my arms back & straight, and just walked. The leads are short enough that the dogs are not monkeying around with each other or getting tied up. I simply walk straight, going where I want to go. I don't let them stop to smell trees or go where *they* want to go. If they try to pull, I give the "ch" sound and give the leash a short tug.

Way back when the Rott was a pup we formally trained him using a training collar (choke collar with dull points that would pinch his neck). That worked fine when we only had to really focus on walking one dog (a two year old could walk the greyhound we had). Even though the Rott won't wear the Halti and I'm not using the training collar, he's not nearly as difficult to walk as he used to be since the Mastiff pup is now under control and is back in the swing of things.

Do you have someone (BlueJay?) that can walk one dog while you walk the other dog to start with? I've seen on Dog Whisperer where they started having different people walk each dog until the dogs were in the "right state of mind" and walking calmly. Then, the owner would take both leashes (one dog on each side) and, without breaking the pace, continue walking with both dogs.

One more thing to mention - Cesar Milan sometimes uses a cone shaped collar that I'd never seen before. It looks like he'll be selling those collars from his website. I don't know if they're any good, how they work, or how they compare to the Halti but thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[SamSpade]

Do you have someone (BlueJay?) that can walk one dog while you walk the other dog to start with? I've seen on Dog Whisperer where they started having different people walk each dog until the dogs were in the "right state of mind" and walking calmly. Then, the owner would take both leashes (one dog on each side) and, without breaking the pace, continue walking with both dogs.

That would be ideal, but her feet and knees are usually in WAY too much pain, especially at the end of the day, which is why the walking falls to me. Perhaps in the near future, but for the time being, that's not an option.

I do have high hopes for them; they're not extremely obedient - mostly, but not extremely - but they do follow me around as though they were nailed to my ankles, so I know they want to please me. We probably spoil them too much, because we tend to give them treats without any connection to behavior, and I think that's going to have to stop. All walks from now on are gonna be accompanied by treats to reward them when they're good. They do learn some things, good, and bad - they've learned not to jump on *me* - they know about when bedtime is, what that word means and they will get a reward if they go to their crate by themselves. Since we used to reward them as puppies after every poop run, they do tend to think they're getting a treat EVERY time they come inside but that is wearing off.

I'd like to teach them not to bark at everything, especially our neighbors, but one thing at a time.

 

[marianne]

I'd like to teach them not to bark at everything, especially our neighbors, but one thing at a time.

Do the "ch" sound and leash tug and/or bite touch when the dogs bark at the neighbors.

I've become addicted to the Dog Whisperer. Even my human kids watch it with me and, after watching an episode, we practice with the canine kids We used to have a big problem where, when the doorbell rang, the house would just turn upside down - dogs barking, dogs running to the door and scratching to see who's there, me yelling at the kids not to open the door until the dogs were in the basement, etc . Then we saw this problem on the Dog Whisperer and immediately afterwards, the kids went out and rang the doorbell while I corrected the dogs behavior. It took several tries over a couple days but it did work.

Although I must say it seems like Cesar has it a bit easy because he's almost always dealing with just one dog.

 

[SamSpade]

Although I must say it seems like Cesar has it a bit easy because he's almost always dealing with just one dog.

Perhaps, but I've seen amazing things on that show nonetheless. I don't know how people effectively teach multiple dogs - even at their age, it's hard to take them for late-night pee runs if one wants to play - because he's done his business - and the other is still looking for a spot to go.

I've seen Cesar do that sound - but is there something particular about that sound he uses, or is that just arbitrary? I mean, can't you pretty much train a dog with a clicker or any sharp sound as part of the training? Does that sound have a particular affect on dogs? I've read where it's suggested to make a growl type sound for some things - I guess, because it means something to a dog. And much of what Cesar does and other aspects of dog training appear to be geared to training a dog "in his own language". In the form of communincation that makes sense to a dog.

 

[Cowgirl]

I think he uses the "CH" sound because it's easy, you can do it quickly, and it startles the dogs. It also has a 'sharp' sound.

 

[SamSpade]

I think he uses the "CH" sound because it's easy, you can do it quickly, and it startles the dogs. It also has a 'sharp' sound.

I've thought that. I just wondered if there was more to it. I've noticed from playing with my dogs that they respond differently to different sounds. They react to my even *saying" "woof". If I deliver it to their face in a short burst - it irritates them. I think it's meant as a warning, because that's the first utterance a dog makes when it sees a stranger. Similarly I've heard that very rapid panting sounds are interpreted by dogs as, essentially, laughter, which is probably why they also respond to the way I laugh, because it can sometimes sound like a rapid fire giggle.

I'm taking them out again tonight on the Halti. I've got a little booklet with advice on how to use it.

 

[marianne]

I've thought that. I just wondered if there was more to it. I've noticed from playing with my dogs that they respond differently to different sounds.

Cesar tells his clients to pick a sound, any sound, that the dog reacts to and stick with that sound. Cesar uses "ch" because he finds most dogs react to that but you can use any sound. The "ch" or a clicking sound would replace somewhat long conversations with the dog: it's okay, sit, stay, lay down, etc. Our 4 month old pup reacted to the "ch" sound the day we got him so that's what I've been using.

 

[SamSpade]

They did great on their walks last night as well. Both of them still fight it for the first minute or two, but after that they're both pretty good about it. They have different reactions however, to things they see. She runs from other dogs, and gets spooked by sudden noises. On the other hand, she's fascinated by children, even though she behaves herself. He's cautious about everything, but not afraid. But I think more exposure to things outside their yard will help them to not over-react to everything.