Don't Mock God!

[itsbob]

The first symbol of the believers was a fish as I understand it. The cross came later. For me, the cross is a reminder of the suffering Jesus went through for me. My sins put Him there. Of course Jesus is not symbolized on the cross I wear since He is risen. I wear a cross because it is hard to represent an empty tomb in gold. Do I need to wear a cross? No. Jesus loves me just the same with or without it.

So, lets say he was electrocuted, you'd wear an electric chair around your neck??

or a noose if they chose to hang him instead?

Wearing a crucifix just doesn't make sense, it was the weapon they chose to murder him with.. nothing else, a murder weapon.

 

[itsbob]

First of all, most Christians don't pray to the cross or crucifix. That would be idol worship. Those that do are misguided. We do however, hold it as a sacred symbol to remind us of where Christ's work was done.

So making the sign on the cross before you walk in the door, making it again before you sit down.. making the sign before you pray, after you pray.. what is that, if not idol worship??

 

[MMDad]

So making the sign on the cross before you walk in the door, making it again before you sit down.. making the sign before you pray, after you pray.. what is that, if not idol worship??

Since you and I have a similar religious background, I understand your aversion to worshipping the cross. I also agree that it should not be worshipped. However, is it really any worse than adding on to the Bible?

I don't beleive in the B of M, but it doesn't really bother me. It's harmless since it's a stand alone book independent of the bible. The Pearl of Great Price is what I have a problem with. It just doesn't seem right to have a "supplement" to the bible.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So, lets say he was electrocuted, you'd wear an electric chair around your neck??

or a noose if they chose to hang him instead?

Wearing a crucifix just doesn't make sense, it was the weapon they chose to murder him with.. nothing else, a murder weapon.

I don't see it that way. I see it as a reminder of the sacrifice that God made for me because He loves me.

 

[somd whisper]

I don't see it that way. I see it as a reminder of the sacrifice that God made for me because He loves me.

I agree. It serves as a reminder for me.

 

[somd whisper]

I DARE YOU TO READ ALL OF THIS
It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7): Be not deceived; God is
not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Here
are
some men and women who mocked God:

JOHN LENNON: Some years before, during his interview with an American
Magazine, he said: Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not
have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects
were too simple, today we are more famous than Him (1966). Lennon,
after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was
shot six times.

TANCREDO NEVES (President of Brazil): During the Presidential
campaign,he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God
would remove him from Presidency. Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a
day before being made President, then he died.

CAZUZA (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet): During a show
in Canec (Rio de Janeiro), whilst smoking his cigarette, he puffed out
some smoke into the air and said: God, that's for you. He died at the
age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.

THE MAN WHO BUILT TITANIC: After the construction of Titanic, a
reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be. With an ironic tone he
said: Not even God can sink it. The result: I think you all know what
happened to the Titanic.

MARILYN MONROE: She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation
of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.
After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said: I dont need your
Jesus. A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.

BON SCOTT: The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he
sang: Dont stop me, Im going down all the way, down the highway to
hell. On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had
choked by his own vomit.

CAMPINAS IN 2005:
In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a
friend. The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about
the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her
hand, who was already seated in the car: MY DAUGHTER, GO WITH GOD AND
MAY HE PROTECT YOU. She responded: ONLY IF HE (GOD) TRAVELS IN THE
TRUNK, CAUSE INSIDE HERE ITS ALREADY FULL. Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car
could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly,
the trunk was intact. The police said there was no way the trunk could
have remained intact. To their surprise, Inside the trunk was a crate of
eggs, not one were broken.

Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name
that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus. Many have died,
but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.

JESUS!!!

P.S: If it was a joke, you would have sent it to everyone. So are you
going to have courage to send this?. I have done my part, Jesus said
If you are embarrassed about me, I will also be embarrassed about you
before my father.

What benefit does it have, if a man gains the whole world but loses
his soul? What can man give in exchange of his soul? (Mathew
16:26).

Tying thier deaths to God is a prime example of instilling fear through faith. Death comes to us all…. it is what happens after we pass is the key.

 

[Vince]

So making the sign on the cross before you walk in the door, making it again before you sit down.. making the sign before you pray, after you pray.. what is that, if not idol worship??

I don't know how you see it as idol worship? It is just a symbol to remind us of how Jesus died for us.

 

[itsbob]

Since you and I have a similar religious background, I understand your aversion to worshipping the cross. I also agree that it should not be worshipped. However, is it really any worse than adding on to the Bible?

I don't beleive in the B of M, but it doesn't really bother me. It's harmless since it's a stand alone book independent of the bible. The Pearl of Great Price is what I have a problem with. It just doesn't seem right to have a "supplement" to the bible.

I don't practice that religion either..



I still say, what if they chose a different way to execute him, what would you be wearing around your neck? What kind of arm and hand signals would you be making.. Before you pray you make a finger gun and pull back your thumb with the opposing hand? Or make the sign of the spear, or the noose, or a guillotine?

 

[ponchie]

AC/DC's Highway To Hell was written about being on the road touring. I don't think it had anything to do with actually going to hell. And yes, John Lennon was shot...so was the Pope. What did the Pope do to deserve to be shot and many other men and women??? The bible also says in the Old Testament that those who work on Sunday will go to hell. I don't think God is going to condem me to hell because my job requires me to work on Sunday. I have to provide for myself. I absolutely detest these types of quotes in the name of being a Christian. And I AM a Christain. I just try and not judge other people, like Jesus taught.

 

[Tonio]

That list is one of the most hateful things I've ever read. Proclaiming that someone deserves to die because of their beliefs is one of the most evil concepts ever created by humanity. And when someone claims to know what God wants, that is the height of arrogance, like the person is claiming to have power over others.

 

[Tonio]

If he was "hung til dead" would Christians all be wearing nooses around their necks? And if it was current day would they be praying to Remington? Wearing a gold bullet around their necks?

I once read a science fiction story that used that concept. It was "He Walked Among Us," in the Weird Science comic, which was put out by "Mad Magazine" publisher EC Comics. In the story, a technologically advanced race visits a less advanced planet and leaves behind a scout named Jerome Kraft to study that planet's civilization. While there, he helps the planet's poor people by using his medical kit to cure them of illnesses. To the people of the planet, the effects of Kraft's advanced medicines seem like miracles. The ruling priestly class tells Kraft to knock it off, saying that the rabble must not be helped. Kraft refuses, so the priests have im him to death. Out in space, the rest of Kraft's team dies in an asteroid collision. No one from Kraft's civilization shows up at the planet until two thousand years later. When the new team arrives, they notice that many people and many buildings display a strange rectangular symbol. One of the leaders explains that all Kraftians wear the symbol, which was how Kraft was put to death. The symbol is a stretch-rack.

 

[SamSpade]

So, lets say he was electrocuted, you'd wear an electric chair around your neck??

or a noose if they chose to hang him instead?

Wearing a crucifix just doesn't make sense, it was the weapon they chose to murder him with.. nothing else, a murder weapon.

In a word - YES. Absolutely. I Cor 2:2 "I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified". Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

The *death* of Christ and his Resurrrection is the single focus of Christianity. I know that people who are not Christians or perhaps are nominally, may think the most important thing about Christ was his teaching - or the miracles - or the fact that he came at all. Nope. Repeatedly, Jesus said that dying on the cross was the *REASON* he came into the world "to give his life as a ransom for many". Without his death and resurrection - he's just another teacher. He isn't Messiah at all.

It's not so much the reverence for a "cross" - but for what it means. Last night I saw a bit about a guy who threw himself on a grenade to save another's life. If you'd been the guy he saved, a piece of that grenade might be special to you - not to be revered, but as a reminder that someone willingly chose to give up his life to save yours. I don't know anyone like that; but almost everyone I know who's had shrapnel in them has a piece of it somewhere.

The New Testament account shows that Jesus willfully chose to go to the cross to pay your burden of sin. You don't have to believe it - I'm just saying, he did it on purpose, just like the Marine and the grenade - no one forced his hand, he could leave anytime he wanted. While religions have corrupted the sentiment we're supposed to have - obligation, guilt, duty - it's supposed to be gratitude.

 

[Cali Transplant]

In a word - YES. Absolutely. I Cor 2:2 "I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified". Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

The *death* of Christ and his Resurrrection is the single focus of Christianity. I know that people who are not Christians or perhaps are nominally, may think the most important thing about Christ was his teaching - or the miracles - or the fact that he came at all. Nope. Repeatedly, Jesus said that dying on the cross was the *REASON* he came into the world "to give his life as a ransom for many". Without his death and resurrection - he's just another teacher. He isn't Messiah at all.

It's not so much the reverence for a "cross" - but for what it means. Last night I saw a bit about a guy who threw himself on a grenade to save another's life. If you'd been the guy he saved, a piece of that grenade might be special to you - not to be revered, but as a reminder that someone willingly chose to give up his life to save yours. I don't know anyone like that; but almost everyone I know who's had shrapnel in them has a piece of it somewhere.

The New Testament account shows that Jesus willfully chose to go to the cross to pay your burden of sin. You don't have to believe it - I'm just saying, he did it on purpose, just like the Marine and the grenade - no one forced his hand, he could leave anytime he wanted. While religions have corrupted the sentiment we're supposed to have - obligation, guilt, duty - it's supposed to be gratitude.

Good Post!

 

[2ndAmendment]

In a word - YES. Absolutely. I Cor 2:2 "I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified". Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

The *death* of Christ and his Resurrrection is the single focus of Christianity. I know that people who are not Christians or perhaps are nominally, may think the most important thing about Christ was his teaching - or the miracles - or the fact that he came at all. Nope. Repeatedly, Jesus said that dying on the cross was the *REASON* he came into the world "to give his life as a ransom for many". Without his death and resurrection - he's just another teacher. He isn't Messiah at all.

It's not so much the reverence for a "cross" - but for what it means. Last night I saw a bit about a guy who threw himself on a grenade to save another's life. If you'd been the guy he saved, a piece of that grenade might be special to you - not to be revered, but as a reminder that someone willingly chose to give up his life to save yours. I don't know anyone like that; but almost everyone I know who's had shrapnel in them has a piece of it somewhere.

The New Testament account shows that Jesus willfully chose to go to the cross to pay your burden of sin. You don't have to believe it - I'm just saying, he did it on purpose, just like the Marine and the grenade - no one forced his hand, he could leave anytime he wanted. While religions have corrupted the sentiment we're supposed to have - obligation, guilt, duty - it's supposed to be gratitude.

Amen!

 

[Penn]

I received this in an e-mail from a good friend from my church. In it, there are listed some 60 Bible prophesies from the Old Testament that foretold of Christ's birth, His nature, His ministry, His persecution and crucifixion, death and resurrection.

http://www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

Most of the prophesies come from the Book of Psalms, Isaiah, a few from Zechariah, etc.

Important to me, in regards to the meaning and value that many people display in their wearing of a cross on a chain around their neck, is that Jesus Christ was destined to die on a cross for all of our sins. I believe there was no other method of His death that would have ever been considered. That was they way it was foretold, and that is the way it would be.

Hence, I see the wearing and worship of the cross as a Christian's fervent
remembrance of how He died for all of our sins.

Secondly, He was resurrected! As many as 500 people saw and touched Him before He ascended into Heaven!

 

[2ndAmendment]

I received this in an e-mail from a good friend from my church. In it, there are listed some 60 Bible prophesies from the Old Testament that foretold of Christ's birth, His nature, His ministry, His persecution and crucifixion, death and resurrection.

http://www.bible.ca/b-prophecy-60.htm

Most of the prophesies come from the Book of Psalms, Isaiah, a few from Zechariah, etc.

Important to me, in regards to the meaning and value that many people display in their wearing of a cross on a chain around their neck, is that Jesus Christ was destined to die on a cross for all of our sins. I believe there was no other method of His death that would have ever been considered. That was they way it was foretold, and that is the way it would be.

Hence, I see the wearing and worship of the cross as a Christian's fervent
remembrance of how He died for all of our sins.

Secondly, He was resurrected! As many as 500 people saw and touched Him before He ascended into Heaven!

I agree with you almost. I do not worship the cross; that would be idolatry. I don't think you meant "worship" the cross, but it is what you posted.

 

[Penn]

I agree with you almost. I do not worship the cross; that would be idolatry. I don't think you meant "worship" the cross, but it is what you posted.

Thank you. I should not have put it that way.

Wearing it is a reminder of Christ's death - that we all might have life - to many. That was sufficient.

 

[itsbob]

Personally I think wearing a loaf of bread (or a fish as was the original token) around your neck would be more fitting.. at least the bread is considered a miracle he performed, a positive point of his life, something worth remembering, not the chosen weapon to kill him.

 

[SamSpade]

Personally I think wearing a loaf of bread (or a fish as was the original token) around your neck would be more fitting.. at least the bread is considered a miracle he performed, a positive point of his life, something worth remembering, not the chosen weapon to kill him.

The fish actually HAS a two-fold history. One is that it was a simple, quickly drawn symbol to secretly proclaim Christian faith in a time when being a Christian could mean instant death. You could draw it in the sand to someone who didn't even speak your language, and you knew you were both believers.

The second is one that came later - the Greeks letters for the word "fish" (IXThYS - I use Th for "theta") spell out a phrase Jesus Christ, God's Son and Savior.

I don't know how you'd use a symbol for bread - I'm amused at how often people think Jesus turned stones into bread (a la "We Are the World") when he never did any such thing, although he did multiply the loaves - albeit a miracle that pales in comparison to raising yourself from the dead.

However, Jesus already instituted a commemoration of HIS DEATH with bread - and wine. Most Christians celebrate this institution weekly or monthly.

So that would be redundant.

Anyway, I guess I'm just not very convincing, am I? The one thing that separates Jesus from other prophets is that he died and rose to life. It was prophesied he would be killed on a cross. He repeatedly said this was the reason he came at all. It was his only actual reason for coming - to die for the sins of men. If he never did that, Christianity would be bereft of all meaning, because without Christ's death, there is no salvation. Without his resurrection, there is no resurrection for anyone else. Want chapter and verse? That's what it says.

Why wouldn't the greatest and most important symbol with respect to Christ be the manner in which he died? It's the one thing that distinctly marks his purpose on Earth.

 

[Penn]

The fish actually HAS a two-fold history. One is that it was a simple, quickly drawn symbol to secretly proclaim Christian faith in a time when being a Christian could mean instant death. You could draw it in the sand to someone who didn't even speak your language, and you knew you were both believers.

The second is one that came later - the Greeks letters for the word "fish" (IXThYS - I use Th for "theta") spell out a phrase Jesus Christ, God's Son and Savior.

I don't know how you'd use a symbol for bread - I'm amused at how often people think Jesus turned stones into bread (a la "We Are the World") when he never did any such thing, although he did multiply the loaves - albeit a miracle that pales in comparison to raising yourself from the dead.

However, Jesus already instituted a commemoration of HIS DEATH with bread - and wine. Most Christians celebrate this institution weekly or monthly.

So that would be redundant.

Anyway, I guess I'm just not very convincing, am I?

The one thing that separates Jesus from other prophets is that he died and rose to life. It was prophesied he would be killed on a cross.

He repeatedly said this was the reason he came at all. It was his only actual reason for coming - to die for the sins of men.

If he never did that, Christianity would be bereft of all meaning, because without Christ's death, there is no salvation. Without his resurrection, there is no resurrection for anyone else. Want chapter and verse? That's what it says.

Why wouldn't the greatest and most important symbol with respect to Christ be the manner in which he died? It's the one thing that distinctly marks his purpose on Earth.

That is, uh, pretty convincing Sam!

Tell you the truth, I really hadn't put 2 and 2 together about what you just posted, until a couple of years back; we had an Adult Sunday school class that discussed that very same issue. Going through the Gospel of John, you see Jesus telling His disciples His purpose.

He tells the Jews in the marketplace: "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." I don't think anyone of them understood what He was saying to them, however.(chapt 2, vs 19.)

Then initially, in chapt 6, preparing them for His departure from them. In chapt 7, vs 33-34, He tells them He will be leaving them soon. Chapt 10, vs 15-18 is where He talks more about resurrection, I think.
Of Him laying down His life and taking it back up again.

Throughout the rest of John, He prepares them for His departure from this world, all the while assuring them He would not leave them alone.

Our class, that Sunday brought that out: without Christ's death and resurrection, it all wouldn't have meant anything!