Dubya's Prez Library Plans Leaked

[Mikeinsmd]

Reagan didn't free the hostages. He wasn't even Pres yet. They were freed by the Carter admin. Yes, Iran waited until 12:01 on 1-20-81 to let the planes take off but they had been sitting at the end of the runway since 8:30am EST that morning awating certification from the banks that Iran's assets had been released. The Iranians threatened to put the hostages on trial and execute them. Carter threatened to interupt all of Iran's commerce to the outside world if one hostage was put on trial. He threatened a military attack if one hostage was killed. In the end, no hostage was put on trial and no hostage was killed. To this day, I have yet to hear from anyone who had a better course of action to free the hostages that wouldn't have resulted in some sort of war or bringing harm or death to the hostages.

Carter was and still is a do nothing pansy. The ragheads in Iran knew that when Ronnie was sworn in, those hostages had better be airborn or their ass was his.

Carter had already established his lack of military prowess.


What's most interesting is we (GOP) at least have accomplishments to debate. That can't be said for the demmy prez's. Er.....a.... wait, did he or didn't he have sex with that woman??

 

[Ken King]

I understand what you're saying and I must admit that part of me felt the same way at the time but the fact is, the hostages came home. I've only heard critisisms of Carter's actions and what we shouldn't have done despite the fact the hostages came home. I'm still waiting to hear, from anyone, of a better course of action that would've also resulted in the return of the hostages, all of them.

There is only one appropriate response when attacked upon your own soil. Carter failed at his duty to protect and defend our country.

 

[Kerad]

There is only one appropriate response when attacked upon your own soil. Carter failed at his duty to protect and defend our country.

And Reagan failed at his when he didn't appropriately respond to the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing. Correct?

 

[awpitt]

And Reagan failed at his when he didn't appropriately respond to the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing. Correct?

The one difference to this and Iran is that Embassies are, by international law, considered to be territory of their "parent" country. Ken is saying that Carter failed to respond to an attack on American territory. I agree with that but the problem was that Carter's goal was to bring the hostages home safely. A military attack would likely have resulted in the deaths of some or all of the hostages. Carter could have went ahead and attacked and said the hostages died for their country.

 

[Kerad]

The one difference to this and Iran is that Embassies are, by international law, considered to be territory of their "parent" country. Ken is saying that Carter failed to respond to an attack on American territory. I agree with that but the problem was that Carter's goal was to bring the hostages home safely. A military attack would likely have resulted in the deaths of some or all of the hostages. Carter could have went ahead and attacked and said the hostages died for their country.

I was under the impression that an attack against a US military facility overseas is considered an attack against the US.

No matter, if we're limiting the focus to strictly embassies...there were 2 American embassies attacked in 1983, as well. One in Beirut, and one in Kuwait. Neither of which were followed by an "appropriate response" from Reagan.

Apparently Reagan was just as guilty (if not more so) as Carter when it came to "failing to protect and defend our country".

 

[awpitt]

I was under the impression that an attack against a US military facility overseas is considered an attack against the US.

No matter, if we're limiting the focus to strictly embassies...there were 2 American embassies attacked in 1983, as well. One in Beirut, and one in Kuwait. Neither of which were followed by an "appropriate response" from Reagan.

Apparently Reagan was just as guilty (if not more so) as Carter when it came to "failing to protect and defend our country".

I agree with you. I was just saying that there's an expectation that embassies are off limits whereas there's an expectation that a military installation might, at some point, come under attack. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, we allowed Japan's embassy personel to leave as they did ours. As far as protecting our country, I wonder how many Americans (civilian/military) died overseas while protecting our country during the Carter Admin as opposed to how many died during the Reagan Admin. We'd have to divide the total by number of years in office to come up with fair numbers for comparison.

 

[Kerad]

I agree with you. I was just saying that there's an expectation that embassies are off limits whereas there's an expectation that a military installation might, at some point, come under attack. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, we allowed Japan's embassy personel to leave as they did ours. As far as protecting our country, I wonder how many Americans (civilian/military) died overseas while protecting our country during the Carter Admin as opposed to how many died during the Reagan Admin. We'd have to divide the total by number of years in office to come up with fair numbers for comparison.

Thing is, when I point out that Reagan may not have been the Superman the Righties portray him to be, I don't bring up the bombings as part of my argument. I certainly don't blame Reagan.

However, when many of them talk about Carter, the first thing to come out of their mouths is "the hostages!" and how Carter was a wuss and Reagan was this big tough guy our enemies were afraid of. A bit of research shows this is not as true as they would like it to be.

 

[MMDad]

However, when many of them talk about Carter, the first thing to come out of their mouths is "the hostages!" and how Carter was a wuss and Reagan was this big tough guy our enemies were afraid of. A bit of research shows this is not as true as they would like it to be.

Without talking to the Iranians involved, we will never know just what their motivation was. It may well have been that they were afraid of Reagan, but who knows?

As for Carter, I have a lot more problem with his handling of Iran leading up to their revolution. The Shah was a despicable person, and Carter let that cloud his judgement. His handling of the Shah was a huge blunder.

The Panama Canal is another reason I see Carter as the worst President ever. What a mistake.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Thing is, when I point out that Reagan may not have been the Superman the Righties portray him to be, I don't bring up the bombings as part of my argument. I certainly don't blame Reagan.

However, when many of them talk about Carter, the first thing to come out of their mouths is "the hostages!" and how Carter was a wuss and Reagan was this big tough guy our enemies were afraid of. A bit of research shows this is not as true as they would like it to be.

I disagree but shocker right?

Can you see Jimmy standing up challenging the USSR to tear down that wall? Gorby would have had a heart attack laughing.

I forget how old you are Kerad but do you remember the 80's? Reagan took over and in a couple years we were in a booming economy like never seen before.

Carter had 3rd world ragheads smacking us around, cars wrapped around the block hoping to get gas before the tanks went dry and unemployment soaring through the roof.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

WOW

after reading this thread...I see that we are still in the same position as before.

all of the FAR left AND FAR right people are off base in their allegations and they focus on minuit (sp? mine-oot) aspects of the presidencies.

I mean, are you righties ACTUALLY still trying to say that what clinton did was SOOO bad? He did a few "dirty" acts with some lady that worked in the building...so what? The only negative is that he "lied" about it...which was more a case of him trying to get to technical in what was considered "sexual relations"

AND you're ACTUALLY trying to justify Bush 2 as an effective leader? That is way past comical. He has failed in nearly all aspects of his position and made our country look rediculous because we actually elected and then RE-elected such a small-brained dumazz.

ok, i'm done for now, the lefties said some stuff too but i'm going to lunch now and don't feel like wasting more time reading back to see what they said.

overall, the original post by forest was pretty funny, the ensuing comments were predictable. :shrug:

 

[Kerad]

I'm certainly not going to defend Carter's entire presidency. I don't know all that much about it and don't really care to research it.

I just take issue with how some unrealistically criticize his handling of the hostage crisis, while building Ron into some mythical tough guy hero who wouldn't take any crap.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

WOW

after reading this thread...I see that we are still in the same position as before.

all of the FAR left AND FAR right people are off base in their allegations and they focus on minuit (sp? mine-oot) aspects of the presidencies.

I mean, are you righties ACTUALLY still trying to say that what clinton did was SOOO bad? He did a few "dirty" acts with some lady that worked in the building...so what? The only negative is that he "lied" about it...which was more a case of him trying to get to technical in what was considered "sexual relations"

AND you're ACTUALLY trying to justify Bush 2 as an effective leader? That is way past comical. He has failed in nearly all aspects of his position and made our country look rediculous because we actually elected and then RE-elected such a small-brained dumazz.

ok, i'm done for now, the lefties said some stuff too but i'm going to lunch now and don't feel like wasting more time reading back to see what they said.

overall, the original post by forest was pretty funny, the ensuing comments were predictable. :shrug:

I see you're a young fella too. Study a lil history and review the accomplishments of each Prez. I pointed them all out in the other thread.

Dems have accomplished nothing while Pubs have brought down tyrants and communisim in a country twice the size of the USA.

 

[awpitt]

Carter had 3rd world ragheads smacking us around, cars wrapped around the block hoping to get gas before the tanks went dry and unemployment soaring through the roof.

Actually, there was a net gain of about 6 millionjobs under Carter.

I never encountered gas lines during the Carter Admin. There was odd and even rationing though but it just meant you could only buy gas on the odd or even days based on your license plate number.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Actually, there was a net gain of about 6 millionjobs under Carter.

I never encountered gas lines during the Carter Admin. There was odd and even rationing though but it just meant you could only buy gas on the odd or even days based on your license plate number.

Ok, now mention the unemployment stats under Carter and the gains under Reagan. Lets not spin things here Aw...

Don't know where you were but I sat in gas lines. Shall I google for pics??

 

[Lenny]

Ok, now mention the unemployment stats under Carter and the gains under Reagan. Lets not spin things here Aw...

Don't know where you were but I sat in gas lines. Shall I google for pics??

He wouldn't accept pictures anyhow. He'd say they were photoshopped by the conservative supporters of Reagan and Bush(s)

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Ok, now mention the unemployment stats under Carter and the gains under Reagan. Lets not spin things here Aw...

Don't know where you were but I sat in gas lines. Shall I google for pics??

I lived in Florida under the Clinton Administration. Between the whole Cuban boy mess and the gas crunch, there were lines at our gas stations extending for miles and oil shortages then. Yeah, gas prices are up, but I'm not waiting in line for an hour and a half to get gas. :shrug:

 

[forestal]

Raygun was eating jellybeans, consulting fortune tellers, and falling asleep at cabinet meetings.

he was, and remains, nothing but an actor portraying a very poor excuse for a president.

<img src="http://www.cartoonsbydeano.com/images/reagan.gif"/>

Thing is, when I point out that Reagan may not have been the Superman the Righties portray him to be, I don't bring up the bombings as part of my argument. I certainly don't blame Reagan.

However, when many of them talk about Carter, the first thing to come out of their mouths is "the hostages!" and how Carter was a wuss and Reagan was this big tough guy our enemies were afraid of. A bit of research shows this is not as true as they would like it to be.

 

[toppick08]

Raygun was eating jellybeans, consulting fortune tellers, and falling asleep at cabinet meetings.

he was, and remains, nothing but an actor portraying a very poor excuse for a president.

<img src="http://www.cartoonsbydeano.com/images/reagan.gif"/>

Real classy, stool............