East Coast states want to tax drivers’ travel, not their gas

[kwillia]

Fairly sure big rigs accelerate with their front axle (single tire) and break with their rear. And those are pretty much the only two actions that put any wear on the road surface.

Wrong. The motor pushes to all 8 tires in the back to get the load moving. And don't forget that trucks are required to have lift-axles that must be down when loaded to provide additional load balance.

And I didn't see anyone mention the yearly federal 2290 road tax paid for each commercial vehicle in addition to the extra tax paid per state tag... the state of MD charges $1875 per tag each year per truck... trailers are taxed separately. And diesel is already heavily taxed.

 

[itsbob]

Wrong. The motor pushes to all 8 tires in the back to get the load moving. And don't forget that trucks are required to have lift-axles that must be down when loaded to provide additional load balance.

And I didn't see anyone mention the yearly federal 2290 road tax paid for each commercial vehicle in addition to the extra tax paid per state tag... the state of MD charges $1875 per tag each year per truck... trailers are taxed separately. And diesel is already heavily taxed.

And of course without the goods, and the revenue trucking hauls and produces.. we'd be up poop creek..

Though Horse and Wagon produce some Revenure..

 

[glhs837]

Actually, they generally use all eight wheels at the back of the truck for drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-...ile:Conventional_18-wheeler_truck_diagram.svg Front just for steering. Brakes, I'm pretty sure in addition to the eight in the rear, some if not all of the trailer wheels brake also

 

[PeoplesElbow]

$ 550 dollars a year - HVUT


commenter :


Viga said
October 26, 2009 @ 10:24 am

Interesting.

Did you take pounds per inch into account when coming to this conclusion? Large rucks often have 18 wheels or more, generally all axles except the steer axle have dual wheels, and large truck tires are larger and wider than car tires, so they generally apply less pressure to the road surface per inch than cars do.

I’m not up on the numbers, but I do recall reading a study somewhere that showed that many cars actually do more damage than trucks. Of course, that would have to be excepting anywhere trucks make lots of tight turns. This is along the lines of the truth that a woman wearing high-heeled shoes does more damage to a sidewalk than an elephant.

Since your source refers only to “equivalent single axle loads” your calculation appears to be flawed. You are not looking at a 3,500lb car versus a 40,000lb truck (many of which weigh MUCH less than that fully loaded because things like Girl Scout Cookies and toilet paper just don’t weigh that much). Rather, you are looking at a 3,500lb car versus two axles of a semi-truck. The heaviest legal (non-permited) weight for one axle is 18,000lbs. This, combined with tire size, changes the equation drastically.

I don’t have tires handy to measure, but we can make some assumptions to arrive at a close guess, using a fully loaded 80,000lb and a 3,500lb car, with all tires at proper inflation levels.

3500/4=875 pounds per corner. The average car tire is 7 inches wide, and lays 5 inches of tread on the ground. This gives the car a contact patch of 35 square inches.

The average truck tire is 11 inches wide, lays 8 inches of tread on the ground, fully loaded, and has two tires per axle. This gives the large truck a contact patch of 176 square inches. 80,000/18=4,444.

875/35=25 pounds per square inch for the car.
4444/176=25.25 for the truck.

The contact patch stress isn't the only component damaging roads, total weight put on a section, impact and vibration caused by the total weight suddenly being dropped on a bridge, new section of road etc.

By your method I do more damage to the road on my 23mm wide bike tires.

 

[kwillia]

Actually, they generally use all eight wheels at the back of the truck for drive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-...ile:Conventional_18-wheeler_truck_diagram.svg Front just for steering. Brakes, I'm pretty sure in addition to the eight in the rear, some if not all of the trailer wheels brake also

I'm surprised anyone has to even look it up... not much logical sense in thinking the two front tires will be the responsible axle to lunge 70,000 (or more) pounds from a dead stop. And their would be no way no how a 26,000 (empty) dump truck will jump off the starting point and race the quarter mile in 15.82 seconds.

 

[itsbob]

The contact patch stress isn't the only component damaging roads, total weight put on a section, impact and vibration caused by the total weight suddenly being dropped on a bridge, new section of road etc.

By your method I do more damage to the road on my 23mm wide bike tires.

Depends, how damn fat are you??

 

[Clem72]

Wrong. The motor pushes to all 8 tires in the back to get the load moving. And don't forget that trucks are required to have lift-axles that must be down when loaded to provide additional load balance.

And I didn't see anyone mention the yearly federal 2290 road tax paid for each commercial vehicle in addition to the extra tax paid per state tag... the state of MD charges $1875 per tag each year per truck... trailers are taxed separately. And diesel is already heavily taxed.

Thanks for fact checking me. Just some more fuel for the fire; since my tires seem to wear more the faster I take turns it seems lateral force should be figured into how much damage we do to the road. So with that in mind, would wind against the side of a trailer impart additional force to the tires on the opposite side?

 

[kwillia]

Thanks for fact checking me. Just some more fuel for the fire; since my tires seem to wear more the faster I take turns it seems lateral force should be figured into how much damage we do to the road. So with that in mind, would wind against the side of a trailer impart additional force to the tires on the opposite side?

No. We would see abnormal wear in tires if that we'd true. Yo need to take into account the lift axles. A 10 wheel dump truck is limited to how much weight the can carry. Having a verified lift axle allows for a legal max of 70k. If the are over loaded or travel with the lift axle up there is a HUGE fine that increases with every thousand pounds over the limit. If grossly over limit they are slapped with a still order and have to reduce weight before they can leave the spot. Tractor trailers have to similar restrictions and there max depends on how many certified lift axles are installed. Weight distribution is everything.

 

[Merlin99]

No. We would see abnormal wear in tires if that we'd true. Yo need to take into account the lift axles. A 10 wheel dump truck is limited to how much weight the can carry. Having a verified lift axle allows for a legal max of 70k. If the are over loaded or travel with the lift axle up there is a HUGE fine that increases with every thousand pounds over the limit. If grossly over limit they are slapped with a still order and have to reduce weight before they can leave the spot. Tractor trailers have to similar restrictions and there max depends on how many certified lift axles are installed. Weight distribution is everything.

Look at the brain on this one.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

The federal highway system says states must allow vehicles up to 80k lbs onto highways spread over 5 axles with the back 4 axles carying 17k lbs and the front 12k lbs. States like Michigan allow much higher loads as long as the truck has more axles, up to 11 axles in fact. Max weight truck in Michigan can weigh 164k lbs.

Think of a road as a bunch of springs, as you drive over each section weight is transferred to the new section as the axle load goes there, this causes the road section to bounce slightly, the more weight that is transferred on/off the greater the bounce.

One thing that most people don't realize causes damage to roads and bridges is the rebar inside rusting, a molecule of ferrous material expands like popcorn when it oxidizes and this creates stress inside of concrete causing micro cracks in the concrete, as weight goes over these micro cracks they get bigger and bigger, water gets into these cracks, freezes and expands them further forming larger cracks and holes. When a tire hits the hole/crack the heavier the vehicle the more material it causes to break off with each impact.

Rebar that does not rust is rather expensive but is starting to be used in some roads/bridges in the last 20 years.

Not a civil engineer, but I did install a bunch of sensors and do finite element modeling of a bridge using a plastic rebar a while back. At the time it came out as a great to do, but not economically viable.

 

[glhs837]

I'm surprised anyone has to even look it up... not much logical sense in thinking the two front tires will be the responsible axle to lunge 70,000 (or more) pounds from a dead stop. And their would be no way no how a 26,000 (empty) dump truck will jump off the starting point and race the quarter mile in 15.82 seconds.

Well, I knew that rear wheels drove, just wasnt sure if it was all eight or just the front four.