Electric bill

[nutz]

So - for ROI - a window A/C unit - especially if it *heats* also - is worth the money?
I've often thought that - it worked fairly well years ago when I lived in Lusby.

We just have SO MUCH STUFF running electricity - I'm not sure where it all goes.

electric clothes dryer, hair dryers, long showers (what setting on HWH, 140 or higher?), open windows.. Then there's the smaller sneaks such as TV's, radios, alarm clocks, coffee pot, toaster oven, microwave, cell phone chargers, curling/flat irons, hot wax pot....

(anything that's got a clock/programmable)

https://openenergymonitor.org/
http://www.the-diy-life.com/simple-arduino-home-energy-meter/

 

[nutz]

Great point. It's just two of us using electricity and we're gone most of the day. Using the dryer, water heater, etc. all day will certainly drive us costs. At that point, not much you can do other than switch to gas appliances?

That won't save dollars, just shifts the budget dollars to a different pot. Same real issue with solar. Lifestyle changes are the only real energy savers.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

That won't save dollars, just shifts the budget dollars to a different pot. Same real issue with solar. Lifestyle changes are the only real energy savers.

Not quite true, natural gas is so much cheaper than heating water with electric.

If you need propane, that costs about 4x what natural gas does though (and is usually still cheaper than using electric).

https://www.washingtongas.com/home-owners/savings/cost-savings

As an added bonus there is zero maintenance costs to a natural gas furnace vs a heating oil furnace (I have oil, my parents have natural gas)

 

[GWguy]

electric clothes dryer, hair dryers, long showers (what setting on HWH, 140 or higher?), open windows.. Then there's the smaller sneaks such as TV's, radios, alarm clocks, coffee pot, toaster oven, microwave, cell phone chargers, curling/flat irons, hot wax pot....

(anything that's got a clock/programmable)

https://openenergymonitor.org/
http://www.the-diy-life.com/simple-arduino-home-energy-meter/

It's amazing how many vampire devices are around the house. Ever consider how much electric that always-on lighted doorbell button and transformer sucks up?

 

[black dog]

Not quite true, natural gas is so much cheaper than heating water with electric.

If you need propane, that costs about 4x what natural gas does though (and is usually still cheaper than using electric).

https://www.washingtongas.com/home-owners/savings/cost-savings

Yep, my neighbor hates Nat gas, he switched everything over to total electric.
He runs a 60 gallon HWH for two adults. He's heating 60 gallons 24-7-365..
I'm heating water only when one of us turns on the hot water.
I go away almost every weekend, I heat no hot water in either home, unless someone opens a hot water valve.
I don't shift any money with my HW gas bill. . My payback for the tankless was less than two years, and when installed it replaced a standard gas hwh that was over 10 years old at the time.
And I have endless 120+° hot water out of at least 3 fixtures open at the same time.
You can't do that with a HWH with a tank.

 

[GWguy]

Yep, my neighbor hates Nat gas, he switched everything over to total electric.
He runs a 60 gallon HWH for two adults. He's heating 60 gallons 24-7-365..
I'm heating water only when one of us turns on the hot water.
I go away almost every weekend, I heat no hot water in either home, unless someone opens a hot water valve.
I don't shift any money with my HW gas bill. . My payback for the tankless was less than two years, and when installed it replaced a standard gas hwh that was over 10 years old at the time.
And I have endless 120+° hot water out of at least 3 fixtures open at the same time.
You can't do that with a HWH with a tank.

What breaker size do you have running that?

 

[black dog]

It's amazing how many vampire devices are around the house. Ever consider how much electric that always-on lighted doorbell button and transformer sucks up?

Yep, it's interesting. I have turned off breakers before for the refrigerator and the garage.
The dumb stuff running in my home will be about the same as a minimum bill of 7 bucks a month.. The farm house eats about 5-6 bucks a month with no one there. Clocks,night lights, porch lights and so on..

 

[black dog]

What breaker size do you have running that?

It's Nat gas, it just plugs in a 120v receptacle.. I have the large size Rinnai's in both homes.
Week time house is Nat gas and farm is propane..

 

[black dog]

What breaker size do you have running that?

If you are looking for an electrical one, good luck and due your homework on reading data.
Read on gallons per min at incoming temp to outgoing temp..
Big amperage is needed to get a constant flow of 3-4 gpm of 120° water when using well or city water at the temps it comes to the house at.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

That won't save dollars, just shifts the budget dollars to a different pot. Same real issue with solar. Lifestyle changes are the only real energy savers.

While some cost will have to shift, it won't be all. The cost per BTU between NG and electric are different.

 

[GWguy]

It's Nat gas, it just plugs in a 120v receptacle.. I have the large size Rinnai's in both homes.
Week time house is Nat gas and farm is propane..

Gotcha. I was thinking electric.

It's worth investigating, but no nat gas here. I have propane available, but not sure it's cost effective for me. There's a Rinnai dealer/store in Gordonsville, VA that I pass frequently, have to stop and talk.

 

[black dog]

Gotcha. I was thinking electric.

It's worth investigating, but no nat gas here. I have propane available, but not sure it's cost effective for me. There's a Rinnai dealer/store in Gordonsville, VA that I pass frequently, have to stop and talk.

The best features are, the bestie loves the steaming soaking bathtub. And I like no matter what yoing on with the hot water, IE she's filling up the tub and the DW is running, I can still do laundry or take a shower and everyone is happy. And when it's not running, it doesn't use any gas.

The one I installed at the farm is propane and the only model that was available then had to be mounted on a outside wall. The house has an attached garage and I mounted it in there on a exterior wall. I would hope by now they have one to mount inside of a home.

 

[nutz]

Not quite true, natural gas is so much cheaper than heating water with electric.

If you need propane, that costs about 4x what natural gas does though (and is usually still cheaper than using electric).

https://www.washingtongas.com/home-owners/savings/cost-savings

As an added bonus there is zero maintenance costs to a natural gas furnace vs a heating oil furnace (I have oil, my parents have natural gas)

Quite a few people in the tri-county area do not have natural gas as an option, hence the automatic denial of consideration. And, gas furnaces (propane/nat) do require regular maintenance (burner check/adjustment) to maintain peak efficiency. However, as with oil burners most people wait until it breaks to figure it out.

 

[nutz]

While some cost will have to shift, it won't be all. The cost per BTU between NG and electric are different.

Again, basis was on propane due to lack of availability of nat. gas in the area. You would also have to negate all installation costs for the switchover.

 

[BadGirl]

My electric bill last month was right about $17.50, for a 4,000 sq ft home. The month before was less than $15.00.

Solar, Baby!

 

[GWguy]

My electric bill last month was right about $17.50, for a 4,000 sq ft home. The month before was less than $15.00.

Solar, Baby!

You guys have a Rinnai. I don't remember, is it electric or gas? If electric, how big a circuit breaker for it?

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Quite a few people in the tri-county area do not have natural gas as an option, hence the automatic denial of consideration. And, gas furnaces (propane/nat) do require regular maintenance (burner check/adjustment) to maintain peak efficiency. However, as with oil burners most people wait until it breaks to figure it out.

I grew up with natural gas heat, my parents have had three natural gas furnaces since the house was built in 1978 and none of them have ever had service. The recommended maintenance is mostly for checking for CO leaks.

Here (due to lack of natural gas) I have oil heat and yearly service is most definitely a requirement. There really is no burner cleaning/adjustment required with natural gas like there is oil. I pay $265/year for a HVAC contract, a friend that I went to high school with comes to my moms and cleans out some cobwebs, checks her CO detector etc for $50/year, he also installed her most recent furnace. A 15-20 year replacement cycle is recommended, however the people across the street from her have the original unit that was installed in 1978, they have to scrounge used parts every the motor wears out though.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Yep, my neighbor hates Nat gas, he switched everything over to total electric.
He runs a 60 gallon HWH for two adults. He's heating 60 gallons 24-7-365..
I'm heating water only when one of us turns on the hot water.
I go away almost every weekend, I heat no hot water in either home, unless someone opens a hot water valve.
I don't shift any money with my HW gas bill. . My payback for the tankless was less than two years, and when installed it replaced a standard gas hwh that was over 10 years old at the time.
And I have endless 120+° hot water out of at least 3 fixtures open at the same time.
You can't do that with a HWH with a tank.

To be fair as long as you aren't using water that heat in the water tank lasts a really long time.

I had a bad thermostat and scalded myself in the shower one morning so I turned off the breaker before work at 6AM, got home at 5PM that evening thinking the water would have cooled down, it was still burn your skin almost instantly hot. The next morning at 6AM it was a good shower temp.

I wish I had natural gas lines here. I dislike the electric range also.

 

[BadGirl]

You guys have a Rinnai. I don't remember, is it electric or gas? If electric, how big a circuit breaker for it?

It is a propane gas instant water heater.


Blah, blag, blah. That's about all I know.

 

[GWguy]

It is a propane gas instant water heater.


Blah, blag, blah. That's about all I know.

Thanx! Say Hi to Bob.