Ending birthright citizenship

[Monello]

This just shows how little Trump understands the law and the Constitution.

Just like biden announcing he was forgiving student loan debt right before the midterm elections.

You watch prior to the 2024 election he will announce reparations for some people. But just like student debt forgiveness, he will never deliver on that promise.

 

[stgislander]

Just like biden announcing he was forgiving student loan debt right before the midterm elections.

You watch prior to the 2024 election he will announce reparations for some people. But just like student debt forgiveness, he will never deliver on that promise.

That and something to do with abortion. It worked in 2022, why not 2024.

 

[awpitt]

Of course he can explain his interpretation of it and it seems consistent with the intent of the amendment when it was ratified. As to existing court rulings, in Slaughter House the Supreme Court stated that this qualifying phrase was intended to exclude “children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.” Following that, in Elk vs. Wilkins, citizenship was denied to an American Indian because he “owed immediate allegiance to” his tribe and not the United States, which confirmed Slaughter House's interpretation.

What needs to be clarified (by law) is exactly what "subject to the jurisdiction thereof” actually means. Does it mean any partial or temporary jurisdiction is sufficient or must one not hold allegiance to any foreign government before it applies to the offspring that happen to be born in the US?

...and this is what I've been saying all along. Whatever Trump's intent, it needs to be done by law. Executive orders are not the avenue here. If his intent is to end birthright citizenship for children born to illegals, it needs to be done lawfully. That means legislation or constitutional amendment. Executive orders will just lead to endless litigation.

 

[awpitt]

Just like biden announcing he was forgiving student loan debt right before the midterm elections.

You watch prior to the 2024 election he will announce reparations for some people. But just like student debt forgiveness, he will never deliver on that promise.

Exactly and we've seen what's happened to the student loan forgiveness Executive Order. That is exactly what will happen if Trump tries to end birthright citizenship for children born to illegals via an Executive Order.

 

[Ken King]

...and this is what I've been saying all along. Whatever Trump's intent, it needs to be done by law. Executive orders are not the avenue here.

In your opinion.

If his intent is to end birthright citizenship for children born to illegals, it needs to be done lawfully.

I'm pretty sure executive orders are lawful if they are based on existing statutory power.

That means legislation or constitutional amendment. Executive orders will just lead to endless litigation.

I agree with that, but when no action takes place and only silence is observed it seems an effective means to advance the matter.

 

[Hijinx]

I am not so worried about Birthright citizenship.
If we stop them at the border that will take care of itself.
Stop them from migrating from all over South America and just walking across.
Trump should just stop with this birthright crap and promise to finish the fence and close the border to anyone not coming across legally and send back those who already came. Eisenhower deported over 2 million illegals.
Git'er done.

 

[SamSpade]

I am not so worried about Birthright citizenship.
If we stop them at the border that will take care of itself.

You're mostly right. Truth is, the sheer VOLUME of illegals remaining in this country over the last couple years dwarfs the headaches of persons entering the country, because someone thinks everyone's FAMILY is entitled.

 

[awpitt]

I am not so worried about Birthright citizenship.
If we stop them at the border that will take care of itself.
Stop them from migrating from all over South America and just walking across.
Trump should just stop with this birthright crap and promise to finish the fence and close the border to anyone not coming across legally and send back those who already came. Eisenhower deported over 2 million illegals.
Git'er done.

Actually, Eisenhower deported 110,019 illegals. The record for deportations (3,066,457) is held by Obama. He used to be called the Deporter-in-Chief. George W comes in second at 2,012,539 deportations. Trump deported 551,449 during his first two years in office.

 

[awpitt]

You're mostly right. Truth is, the sheer VOLUME of illegals remaining in this country over the last couple years dwarfs the headaches of persons entering the country, because someone thinks everyone's FAMILY is entitled.

The biggest source of illegal immigration is not the so called “open boarder” crossings as some would have us believe. The biggest source of illegal immigration comes from people who come here legally then overstay.

 

[SamSpade]

The biggest source of illegal immigration is not the so called “open boarder” crossings as some would have us believe. The biggest source of illegal immigration comes from people who come here legally then overstay.

And I have found that THAT figure does not seem to hold up to actual statistics. We have an enormous number of people who visit the United States each year - and we try to track their arrivals and departures. The actual percentage of persons who do not appear to LEAVE - who overstay their visas (evidently) is rather small. But it's large when it is compared to the extremely large number who come in on visas.

The LARGEST GROUP for which we do not show departures -

Is CANADA. By far. So unless we're being overrun by hordes of illegal CANADIANS, that number has no value. In reality, the discrepancy is very likely caused by Canadians who do not return home by an identifiable verifiable route. It's a statistical anomaly, but the fact is, we are NOT overrun by illegal CANADIANS, so it's just a red herring.

We DO have tens of millions of illegal aliens from Latin America and elsewhere.

 

[SamSpade]

“open boarder”

My brother used to say that a Mexican Border pays rent.

 

[GURPS]

The biggest source of illegal immigration comes from people who come here legally then overstay.

Yeah that is not True since Biden took over ....

 

[awpitt]

And I have found that THAT figure does not seem to hold up to actual statistics. We have an enormous number of people who visit the United States each year - and we try to track their arrivals and departures. The actual percentage of persons who do not appear to LEAVE - who overstay their visas (evidently) is rather small. But it's large when it is compared to the extremely large number who come in on visas.

The LARGEST GROUP for which we do not show departures -

Is CANADA. By far. So unless we're being overrun by hordes of illegal CANADIANS, that number has no value. In reality, the discrepancy is very likely caused by Canadians who do not return home by an identifiable verifiable route. It's a statistical anomaly, but the fact is, we are NOT overrun by illegal CANADIANS, so it's just a red herring.

We DO have tens of millions of illegal aliens from Latin America and elsewhere.

Not sure where you're going here. I don't remember mentioning Canadians.

 

[SamSpade]

Not sure where you're going here. I don't remember mentioning Canadians.

You didn't have to, that argument is used often in columns and TV shows. We have ranging from 6 to 11 million tourist visas each year - a little lower during pandemic years - and that oft quoted argument is little more than an accounting error.

I used to wonder how in the hell we could be so lax when it came to tracking LEGAL entrants to our country - so I began a deep dive into the numbers. We actually do a GREAT job tracking them - the percent of those NOT accounted for is pretty small and fairly consistent. But, it adds up and by all accounts, the persons who appear to NOT go home, eventually - DO. They're not here. They left, we just *missed* them.

And the easiest way to see that without digging trhough piles of visa applicants is to look at the nation of origin of most of them. The largest portion of the total of persons who appear to overstay their visas and by first glance, seem to remain here - are from Canada and we KNOW we're not swimming in Canadians. So that quoted stat has no value - it's just somethign people say to deflect from the issue.

We have, within the last two years, an estimated 1.5 million "gotaways" that we know of - obviously there are more that we have no clue, because not everyone who sneaks across the border is seen but escapes. THAT number is the estimate from seen encounters. The number of illegals sitting in the country awaiting their day in court - should they ever appear - or are ABLE to appear - is more like 6 million since Biden took office.

More evidence that the "overstay their visa" argument is moot, because at this point, it would have to be ALL of them - we only issued a couple million last year.