EU [Germany] wants to break up Google .......

[Larry Gude]

Every big corporation started out as a small corporation at one point in time.

And that makes it.....???

 

[czygvtwkr]

You presume that's where we'd be absent giant corporations. The facts are quite different. Big doesn't innovate. Big doesn't take chances. Big doesn't try new ways. Big bullies its way. Big crams down your throat what they want. Big gets congress to mandate bulbs far more harmful to the environment than what we had in the name of the environment. Big is HD being able to sell lesser bikes simply because of marketing and branding.

Ever hear of sawstop? It is a small company of a guy that invented a safe table saw, there is a famous video of him running a hotdog across it and the hotdog barely getting a nick. Did he innovate, sure did but you know what else he is doing? He is funding lawsuits of people that got hurt with regular table saws and lobbying to get his (copyrighted) technology made mandatory on saws.

You are over simplifying things, only seeing them from one side, and failing to base take reality into account.

And big can innovate, Big got us Xerox PARC, Bell Laboratories, Lockheed Skunkworks, etc and some of the most important things to come out of the 20th century were envisioned there.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ever hear of sawstop? It is a small company of a guy that invented a safe table saw, there is a famous video of him running a hotdog across it and the hotdog barely getting a nick. Did he innovate, sure did but you know what else he is doing? He is funding lawsuits of people that got hurt with regular table saws and lobbying to get his (copyrighted) technology made mandatory on saws.

You are over simplifying things, only seeing them from one side, and failing to base take reality into account.

And big can innovate, Big got us Xerox PARC, Bell Laboratories, Lockheed Skunkworks, etc and some of the most important things to come out of the 20th century were envisioned there.

The 'skunkworks' operated as a little tiny shop, agreed? And the rest, you're talking about the past as well, yes?

Big gives us Windows instead of a solid OS. Big gives is VHS instead of Betamax. Big gives us GM. Goldman Sachs. WalMart.

How about we do some compromise and figure out what needs to be big and what might well be better off small? Some give and take?

 

[czygvtwkr]

The 'skunkworks' operated as a little tiny shop, agreed?

Of a really large defense contractor that was and is part of the dreaded military industrial complex.

And the rest, you're talking about the past as well, yes?

Of course, I can't predict the future

Big gives us Windows instead of a solid OS. Big gives is VHS instead of Betamax. Big gives us GM. Goldman Sachs. WalMart. \

As someone who has used the alternative OS's such as OS/2 and Linux I have to say windows became big because it standarized stuff from fonts printing the same on different printers to having standard packages that allowed third party vendors to write code easily so their devices would work with it I contest windows became big because it made things easier for the consumer vs having a bunch of differnt incompatable devices.

Betamax was from an equally big source as VHS. BIG cooperating brought us a single DVD standard vs HD DVD and Blue Ray competing as well as an HDTV standard, imagine if there was no standard for HDTV signals what a mess that would have been

And I want a car from a big company because I want to be able to find parts for it every where I go without having to order them from a single source.

How about we do some compromise and figure out what needs to be big and what might well be better off small? Some give and take?

And if we did that I am sure you would be unhappy with how it was done and on here trying to convince people how it should be done in the way that would most benefit you

Big has brought us some great things that you just fail to see because of your own bias, USB standard, very stong aluminum and steel alloys, etc.

I also like the ability to find a walmart where ever I may be and pick up a case of diet pepsi, a pack of underwear, a bag of carrots, a quart of oil, and a lawnmower.

 

[Larry Gude]

Big has brought us some great things that you just fail to see because of your own bias, USB standard, very stong aluminum and steel alloys.

I also like the ability to find a walmart where ever I may be and pick up a case of diet pepsi, a pack of underwear, a bag of carrots, a quart of oil, and a lawnmower.

No, no. It's not that I 'fail' to see. I see. You can't miss it. All I am asking is...is it worth it?


I mean, pick one area say, WalMart. In exchange for all that convenience and cheap prices, you also have that leviathan roaming the earth demanding lower costs. That pushes jobs out of the US. That involves us, on such a large scale, in the inner workings of the places we now get those goods from; China, Vietnam, you name it. It's one thing if a bunch of small companies get hosed by China. They took the risk, they pay the price. If it is an enormous concern like WalMart, the potential impact draws us in as a nation out of fear of those impacts.

And, in the mean time, less US jobs. I mean, look at us. We're paying immigrants $8-10 an hour while paying unemployed Americans about that in benefits. So, what could have been a good US job at $16-20 an hour is still costing the economy that much with the added 'benefits' of the loss of the wages paid to a Chinese worker AND immigrants sending what they earn home.

I fully acknowledge their are benefits to 'big' things. But, they come at a cost. In my view, the costs are enormous.

 

[czygvtwkr]

No, no. It's not that I 'fail' to see. I see. You can't miss it. All I am asking is...is it worth it?


I mean, pick one area say, WalMart. In exchange for all that convenience and cheap prices, you also have that leviathan roaming the earth demanding lower costs. That pushes jobs out of the US. That involves us, on such a large scale, in the inner workings of the places we now get those goods from; China, Vietnam, you name it. It's one thing if a bunch of small companies get hosed by China. They took the risk, they pay the price. If it is an enormous concern like WalMart, the potential impact draws us in as a nation out of fear of those impacts.

And, in the mean time, less US jobs. I mean, look at us. We're paying immigrants $8-10 an hour while paying unemployed Americans about that in benefits. So, what could have been a good US job at $16-20 an hour is still costing the economy that much with the added 'benefits' of the loss of the wages paid to a Chinese worker AND immigrants sending what they earn home.

I fully acknowledge their are benefits to 'big' things. But, they come at a cost. In my view, the costs are enormous.

With this you are barking up the wrong tree, what you really want is secure borders and tarifs on goods. I guess you realize that this will never happen so you want to control it another way?

 

[Larry Gude]

With this you are barking up the wrong tree, what you really want is secure borders and tarifs on goods. I guess you realize that this will never happen so you want to control it another way?

Controlling the border is one of the prerequisites of a sovereign nation. And tariffs can be as good as bad.

You like Too Big To Fail. That's fine. That's what we have. Be happy.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Controlling the border is one of the prerequisites of a sovereign nation. And tariffs can be as good as bad.

You like Too Big To Fail. That's fine. That's what we have. Be happy.

No I don't like meddling because it always turns out bad with unintended consequences.

Too big to fail happened once, hopefully never again, it is atleast Thursday by now, stop Monday morning quarterbacking it.

 

[Larry Gude]

No I don't like meddling because it always turns out bad with unintended consequences.

Too big to fail happened once, hopefully never again, it is atleast Thursday by now, stop Monday morning quarterbacking it.

Huh? Too Big To Fail is reality be it the implicit guarantees of Dodd/Frank or the ACA or retailing or what have you.

And Monday morning QB'ing is the only way things are going to get better for the next game.

 

[czygvtwkr]

And Monday morning QB'ing is the only way things are going to get better for the next game.

No it doesn't because the person that does it is never in the game and never has anything to do with the game plan. They simply have the luxury of never having to be the one on the spot that has to make a decision and live with the possibly making the wrong one.

 

[Larry Gude]

No it doesn't because the person that does it is never in the game and never has anything to do with the game plan. They simply have the luxury of never having to be the one on the spot that has to make a decision and live with the possibly making the wrong one.

Well, speaking as a small business owner over the last 12 years and in small business my entire life, I a Monday morning qb. And Tuesday and every other day of the week.

I am an authority.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Well, speaking as a small business owner over the last 12 years and in small business my entire life, I a Monday morning qb. And Tuesday and every other day of the week.

I am an authority.

The only thing it makes you is aware of how these decisions affect you and that is it.

 

[Larry Gude]

The only thing it makes you is aware of how these decisions affect you and that is it.

Gee. Yah think???? Thanks for helping make my point!

 

[GURPS]

Big doesn't innovate.
Big doesn't take chances.
Big doesn't try new ways.
Big bullies its way.
Big crams down your throat what they want.
Big gets congress to mandate bulbs far more harmful to the environment than what we had in the name of the environment. - you got some proof :shrug:
Big is HD being able to sell lesser bikes simply because of marketing and branding.

how big is Big :shrug: 25 employees, 250, 2500, 25,000


... was Ford to Big - back in the Day Henry owned, coal mines, Iron mines,

innovation was pre-drilling the crates used for shipping some parts, and reusing them on Model T for floorboards



Dana ?
General Electric ?
Frigidaire ?
Jeep ?
Gonset ?
Magnavox ?
Union Switch and Signal ?
Rock-ola ?
Inland ?
Indian ?
Vincent HRD ?


BIG is not the issue, but Socializing Failure, while Privatizing Profits ....



where is Kaiser, Fraiser, Nash, Packard, Willys Overland .... Pan Am, TWA,


are you talking BIG of the 1950's, 60's, 70's ???






and not how you pass off 2 inches as 6

 

[GURPS]

And I want a car from a big company because I want to be able to find parts for it every where I go without having to order them from a single source.

yeah you can get Land Rover parts in deepest Africa, but try and get something in the USA

[well until the 1990's]

 

[Larry Gude]

how big is Big :shrug: 25 employees, 250, 2500, 25,000


... was Ford to Big - back in the Day Henry owned, coal mines, Iron mines,

innovation was pre-drilling the crates used for shipping some parts, and reusing them on Model T for floorboards



Dana ?
General Electric ?
Frigidaire ?
Jeep ?
Gonset ?
Magnavox ?
Union Switch and Signal ?
Rock-ola ?
Inland ?
Indian ?
Vincent HRD ?


BIG is not the issue, but Socializing Failure, while Privatizing Profits ....



where is Kaiser, Fraiser, Nash, Packard, Willys Overland .... Pan Am, TWA,


are you talking BIG of the 1950's, 60's, 70's ???






and not how you pass off 2 inches as 6

I think there is balance to be had. If you're happy with one bank, one food company, one hardware store, on gas station, one clothing company, one farming company, one cable company, one phone company, then why all the fuss over Obamacare and the VA? It's the exact same thing. The problems at the VA, with the ACA are because of size. When you are that big, mistakes simply don't matter much because the options are few, the recourse is little.

Is there ONE vet that would choose the VA over private doctors given the choice? How does GM get away with 2 million bad ignition switches? When we had three networks, we had a monopoly on the message, for decades. Do we really want FOX news to be the only news source?

To say it took 'Gigantic' Corp to do X or Y or Z is not to say it was the best thing that could happen.

Perfect example is the space program and the web. There is a place in there for 'BIG' to build the backbone, to do something that a smaller concern CAN'T do but, then, to have myriad small concerns innovate and take off with the ideas.

 

[GURPS]

I think there is balance to be had.

I am against Socializing the Failure .... that is what Too Big To Fail did


it also protected UNIONS .... GM would have been fine, broken up, perhaps, but bankruptcy would have given GM the power to renegotiate the labor contracts

then like Hostess it falls on the UNION to make the proper decision or GM gets its bits sold off, and the new owners start making Corvettes and Caddy's, while Pontiac and Oldsmobile fad away as a distant memory ...


as far as Lehman Bro. I am still don't really know what happened their, but again, someone would have bought the good bits, and the trash would have been swept away

 

[Larry Gude]

I am against Socializing the Failure .... that is what Too Big To Fail did y

Depends on how it is done. THAT is my issue. had we bailed out we, the people, OK, then. Help us, with OUR money, OUR gummint, fix the rules and over sight and let the banks go back to doing their thing.