Ex-generals: Global warming threatens U.S. security

[awpitt]

From CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/15/warming.military.ap/index.html

I guess we can bury our heads in the sand like ostriches and it will all go away. It’s unfortunate that some have turned this issue into a referendum on Al Gore. This is much more important than Al Gore it’s about the world our kids, grandchildren, great- grandchildren, etc. will live in. If we love them, we could at the very least, error on the side of caution.

 

[This_person]

From CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/15/warming.military.ap/index.html

I guess we can bury our heads in the sand like ostriches and it will all go away. It’s unfortunate that some have turned this issue into a referendum on Al Gore. This is much more important than Al Gore it’s about the world our kids, grandchildren, great- grandchildren, etc. will live in. If we love them, we could at the very least, error on the side of caution.

Or, be realistic.... Wait, no, that wouldn't work.....

 

[Kerad]

From CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/15/warming.military.ap/index.html

I guess we can bury our heads in the sand like ostriches and it will all go away. It’s unfortunate that some have turned this issue into a referendum on Al Gore. This is much more important than Al Gore it’s about the world our kids, grandchildren, great- grandchildren, etc. will live in. If we love them, we could at the very least, error on the side of caution.

We prefer to not acknowledge global warming. Well...maybe...since Newt has come along. But still....oops.

I mean.

NO!

Until Dubya, Dick, and Karl tell us so...it is non-existent.

We only believe what they tell us to believe. Go away. Stop telling us stuff that hasn't been cleared through the President's office.

 

[blazinlow89]

I think its all a bunch of crap. I wasnt around in the 70's but from what i have read this has gone on through out history. In the next 40-50 years the earth will freeze, there wont be any water, blah blah. The earth might be warming but no one knows if it natural, extra energy from the sun (mars polar caps are melting too), or if humans are the cause.

And if it gets the presidents approval i might believe it even less.

 

[MikeyBash]

According to the article:<o></o>

Gen. Anthony "Tony" Zinni, President Bush's former <st1lace w:st="on">Middle East</st1lace> envoy, says in the report: "It's not hard to make the connection between climate change and instability, or climate change and terrorism."<o></o>

So according to Gen Zinni, global warming (sorry, "climate change") causes terrorism. He's blaming the most significant threat facing our country on the one of the least significant. This makes as much sense as saying that the large number of people who die each year in automobile accidents must be related to the over-consumption of trans-fats.

In March of 2000, Gen Zinni testified before Congress that "<st1:country-region w:st="on">Iraq</st1:country-region> remains the most significant near-term threat to <st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region> interests in the <st1lace w:st="on">Persian Gulf</st1lace> region." He also said that in spite of UN sanctions, <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Iraq</st1lace></st1:country-region> was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, continuing clandestine nuclear research, and, if allowed to continue ignoring the UN, likely to provide terrorists, including Osama bin Laden, with these types of weapons.

In 2004, Gen Zinni co-authored a book with Tom Clancy, in which he accused President Bush of "creating a false rationale for going in [to <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Iraq</st1:country-region></st1lace>] to get public support." He also said that he "misjudged the success of containment", which presumably was working so well the invasion was unnecessary.

So by 2011, we can expect Gen Zinni to collaborate with Al Gore on book explaining that the billions of dollars spent to combat global warming was actually a clever scheme by Dick Chaney to drive up the cost of solar panels and other alternative energy by making them status symbols to the <st1lace w:st="on">Hollywood</st1lace> elites.

Karl Rove also took advantage of Global Warming by setting up a "Carbon Offset" firm that focused on reducing greenhouse gasses in areas where they had the most potential for harm, such as the Canadian arctic. Rove's firm reduced the amount of carbon released in this area by aggressively eliminating the primary source of these emissions--Baby Harp Seals. By clubbing thousands of these adorable carbon-belching planet wreckers, the endangered Polar Bear's habitat was preserved in pristine condition. Unfortunately, most the Polar Bears starved to death because the seals had been killed to save them from global warming.

In 2012, Gen Zinni and Al Gore visit <st1lace w:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">Alaska</st1:State></st1lace> to call attention to the plight of the dying Polar Bears. As they exited their private jet, several hungry bears attacked and ate both men, while strangely, all of their bodyguards and handlers happened to be using the restroom at the same moment. The tragic deaths of these two brave Americans were blamed on Global Warming.
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[Mikeinsmd]

I think its all a bunch of crap. I wasnt around in the 70's but from what i have read this has gone on through out history. In the next 40-50 years the earth will freeze, there wont be any water, blah blah. The earth might be warming but no one knows if it natural, extra energy from the sun (mars polar caps are melting too), or if humans are the cause.

And if it gets the presidents approval i might believe it even less.

We've been keeping weather records for what, the last 100 years or so? Hey tree huggers..... The earth has been around how many MILLIONS of years???

How the hell can anyone say the earth is warming for christs sake?

When Bush gets that "Weather Master 5000" working right, you'll SEE some friggin warming!!

 

[Lenny]

From CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/15/warming.military.ap/index.html

C'MON PEOPLE! This report hasn't even been released yet (http://securityandclimate.cna.org/report/) and the selective quotes by the press are already being taken as gospel. Let's wait until we can see what the experts in military affairs really said about global climate change before running off across the hills with our hair on fire.

Then we can point out that these guys are predicting global responses to natural changes in the global weather patterns.

 

[Bustem' Down]

We've been keeping weather records for what, the last 100 years or so? Hey tree huggers..... The earth has been around how many MILLIONS of years???

How the hell can anyone say the earth is warming for christs sake?

When Bush gets that "Weather Master 5000" working right, you'll SEE some friggin warming!!

It is warming, the debate is what the cause is, whether it's natural or man made. The tree huggers claim it is man made due to an apparent spike in CO2 levels since the industrial revolution in ice core samples. But there has been a 1.3 degree rise in average surface tempuratures over the past century.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

It is warming, the debate is what the cause is, whether it's natural or man made. The tree huggers claim it is man made due to an apparent spike in CO2 levels since the industrial revolution in ice core samples. But there has been a 1.3 degree rise in average surface tempuratures over the past century.

Ok, technically you are correct (1.3 degree rise in average surface tempuratures over the past century). BUT, suppose in 3 years it starts cooling and continues to cool for the next decade?

GLOBAL COOLING!!!

Maybe it just came off a cooling cycle before we kept records.

I believe using 100 years of data to formulate a hypothesis for a planet that is millions of years old is

 

[Bustem' Down]

Ok, technically you are correct (1.3 degree rise in average surface tempuratures over the past century). BUT, suppose in 3 years it starts cooling and continues to cool for the next decade?

GLOBAL COOLING!!!

Maybe it just came off a cooling cycle before we kept records.

I believe using 100 years of data to formulate a hypothesis for a planet that is millions of years old is

Well, they use more than 100 years. Ice core samples go back millions of years. The problem is that science says "theory" and ploliticians say "fact".

 

[vraiblonde]

But there has been a 1.3 degree rise in average surface tempuratures over the past century.

Woo woo!

That is not my idea of "warming".

 

[vraiblonde]

we could at the very least, error on the side of caution.

And do what?

Al Gore isn't even worried about this himself, or he'd be a little more conservational. Democrats lose their fool minds when some Republican (the party of "family values") gets caught doing something stupid, yet Al Gore is trying to kill us all with his enormous "carbon footprint" and they don't say a word. They just continue to bow down before the Green Guru.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Woo woo!

That is not my idea of "warming".

It's bigger than you think. There is only a few degrees difference between Ice Age average tempuratures and average temperatures between Ice ages.

 

[Lenny]

Maybe it just came off a cooling cycle before we kept records.

ding ding ding ding! that's precisely what happened. the current warming trend began at the end of what reputable scientist call the (get ready for this) "little ice age."

 

[blazinlow89]

Bustem i under stand what your saying, but ice core samples arent a 100% effective way to tell anything. Its like carbon dating you can get the average down to what anywhere from 100 to 1000 years. Its like getting carbon amounts that can be what accurate to 50-100 points. There is no way to know that the info that is being presented is accurate. They can guess and give you all the bs they want, they can manipulate numbers in there favor. If they wanted to be completely accurate they would talk about how in prehistoric times the co2 level where almost 5 times as much as they are today, plants thrive on it, so more co2 should= better plants which should in turn=more oxygen output to balance the levels. Plants dont grow overnight it could be that 40-50 that they are talking about for it to level itself off( if that is the problem). I wont deny that the earth is warming. Maybe the core is going through a cycle, maybe we are getting hit with different amounts of solar radiation, maybe we are the cause and its to late. No one knows everyone can point fingers, blame everyone else keep bringing in money and not do a damn thing. OR the earth will do as it always has and go through natural heating and cooling cycles.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Bustem i under stand what your saying, but ice core samples arent a 100% effective way to tell anything. Its like carbon dating you can get the average down to what anywhere from 100 to 1000 years. Its like getting carbon amounts that can be what accurate to 50-100 points. There is no way to know that the info that is being presented is accurate. They can guess and give you all the bs they want, they can manipulate numbers in there favor. If they wanted to be completely accurate they would talk about how in prehistoric times the co2 level where almost 5 times as much as they are today, plants thrive on it, so more co2 should= better plants which should in turn=more oxygen output to balance the levels. Plants dont grow overnight it could be that 40-50 that they are talking about for it to level itself off( if that is the problem). I wont deny that the earth is warming. Maybe the core is going through a cycle, maybe we are getting hit with different amounts of solar radiation, maybe we are the cause and its to late. No one knows everyone can point fingers, blame everyone else keep bringing in money and not do a damn thing. OR the earth will do as it always has and go through natural heating and cooling cycles.

But here's the thing, I'm not debating the cause of the warming by using ice cores, I'm still on the fence with that until more facts come in, I'm just simply stating that global warming is occuring. Ther is a rise in global average tempuratures. A lot of people won't conceed to that, but that part is actually true.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Well, they use more than 100 years. Ice core samples go back millions of years.

Yea, yea, yea.... who told them that?? Ken King? Ottah? Duponster??

 

[Larry Gude]

It's true...

But here's the thing, I'm not debating the cause of the warming by using ice cores, I'm still on the fence with that until more facts come in, I'm just simply stating that global warming is occuring. Ther is a rise in global average tempuratures. A lot of people won't conceed to that, but that part is actually true.

...but that needs context, right?

Temps rose and fell, but were rather flat from 1940 to 1980. There was enormous use of fossil fuels during the war and the explosion of commerce in the 1950's. There is no case to be made, logically, that CO2 = temperature rise. Does it contribute? Maybe, but there is plenty of evidence that suggests that an atmospheric rise in CO2 concentrations follow actual temperature rise.

The 'warmers' say we MUST do something NOW or we're all gonna die. If so, any action large enough to seriously cut CO2 output would, necessarily, cause widespread global chaos; recession, famine, deaths due to heat and cold.

Point is it would be asinine to do that to ourselves if the sun is the primary cause. It is just as asinine to say we can't wait for more facts. Warmers say we already know enough. That's not reasonable. Not now. Not with what we know.

And don't know.

 

[Bustem' Down]

...but that needs context, right?

Temps rose and fell, but were rather flat from 1940 to 1980. There was enormous use of fossil fuels during the war and the explosion of commerce in the 1950's. There is no case to be made, logically, that CO2 = temperature rise. Does it contribute? Maybe, but there is plenty of evidence that suggests that an atmospheric rise in CO2 concentrations follow actual temperature rise.

The 'warmers' say we MUST do something NOW or we're all gonna die. If so, any action large enough to seriously cut CO2 output would, necessarily, cause widespread global chaos; recession, famine, deaths due to heat and cold.

Point is it would be asinine to do that to ourselves if the sun is the primary cause. It is just as asinine to say we can't wait for more facts. Warmers say we already know enough. That's not reasonable. Not now. Not with what we know.

And don't know.

I agree. I think it's almost arrogant to claim that we have sole power to change the temp globally. I'm more interested in reducing CO2 and other greenhouse gasses for more personal reasons. First, it just makes sense. If we could reduce pollution, why not? Second, I watched the city of Houston as I grew up change into one of the most polluted cities in the US. We used to hardly ever have smog and now it's a daily thing. I'd like to see it go away.

Now, the catch to all that? I want to see it change, I want to see pollution go away, but not at the expense of a stable economy, and not at the expense of jobs for citizens. there is no need for a knee jerk reaction, but a steady controlled change to other typs of fuels. I think the first biggest step we could make as a nation would be to start replacing old coal power plants with nuclear plants. As far as what to do with spent fuel? Kick NASA into gear, there's a whole moon's worth of storage up there.

 

[Larry Gude]

Right...

I If we could reduce pollution, why not? Second, I watched the city of Houston as I grew up change into one of the most polluted cities in the US. We used to hardly ever have smog and now it's a daily thing. I'd like to see it go away. .

...and I agree 100%; let's do what is reasonable and good for us in a reasonable, effective manner. We dealt with lead paint without freaking out too much. We dealt with lead in gas, catalytic converters and even cholesterol without shutting down the planet. I think a good deal of the going on is that many people would argue that nothing will evber get done unless you .

There may be some truth to that BUT, BUT that is the exact same mindset that has caused us to be so far behind where we ought to be in terms of nuke power.

Chicken Little-ism is never a good reason to act and it never replaces reason.
And those who behave otherwise ought to expect suspicion of their motives and reasoning.