Which other amendments to the Constitution do you believe we should just ignore if it serves the goal of lowering petty crime ?
FDR Boulevard Extension Set To Open
- Thread starter jazz lady
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Which other amendments to the Constitution do you believe we should just ignore if it serves the goal of lowering petty crime ?
glhs837
Power with Control
Whoa! Yikes! We disagree. You made me think of the song...What’s It All About, Alfie? Thanks for the reply.
https://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/burt+bacharach/alfie_20025979.html
And, the blue line is thin, but I side with cops. And, I know from your posts that you are a great guy, but I would rather have vigilant cops, than not.
Sorry, but it's called a slippery slope for a reason, and you can have vigilance without overreaching searches. That whole "You shouldnt mind if you have nothing to hide" argument is perfect for totatitarian regimes. "Why should you mind 24/7 surveillance if you have noting to hide?" "Sure we open all your mail, if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't bother you". "Of course we have Alexa record any conversation that mentions bomb, if you are just saying that Beyonces new song is the bomb, we wont kick your door in".
I also side with the police but when they are doing right, not blindly. You seem to imply that it's a black and white thing, either you let the police do what they want and support them, or question them in any way and do not support them. That it's either vigilance that lets them do things that are wrong, or a lack of vigilance that allows criminals free reign. I'm saying you can have a middle ground.
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Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
Who's advocating ignoring the Constitution? I'm certainly not. I have said twice in this thread that if you're following the law, yes ALL of it, including minor issues like keeping your license plate lights clean, you won't be stopped. If you're stopped for a valid reason, no matter how small and annoying, it's a valid Constitutionally-allowable stop. The courts have agreed with that many, many times.
What we all want, I think, is total freedom to act as we want without any external restraint. I want to drive 64 in a 55, without a cop ever pulling me over. I want to ignore the physical condition of my vehicle without consequences. I'm not breaking any BIG laws, so leave me alone. But that's personal preference, not a legal liberty.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
The police don't (at least in the context we're discussing) conduct "overreaching searches." They see a traffic or vehicle condition violation, they stop a vehicle. There's no search involved in that. They're enforcing laws that are clear and unambiguous.
But in the course of discussing things with the driver, if they see or hear or smell something which gives them probable cause for further investigation, then a search is Constitutionally allowable. They may also ask for permission to search, which may be denied; if they are convinced that something is amiss, then they can request a warrant and proceed within the confines of the law.
Nothing they're doing is impermissible under the Constitution or the courts' interpretation of the law. It's annoying, but again, if you are following ALL of the law, you won't be stopped. Period.
glhs837
Power with Control
Yep, thats the script. And politicians always do exactly what they think is best for their constituents. Really, I think officers are about 200% more honest than politicians, pound for pound. But your description makes it sound like what you describe is 100% of stops. They've never seen someone who looks suspicious and uses a violation they would otherwise ignore to make a stop? Sorry, not believing that.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
That's exactly what they do. But you're making my point: there's a violation. They're making a LEGAL stop based on a violation. Several of you seem to be arguing they're doing something illegal.
This_person
Well-Known Member
There's ample evidence that this simply is not true. I'm a middle-aged white guy who drives decent (not flashy and/or huge and/or expensive, but not POS), and I have been pulled over for less than minor issues. You can and will be stopped any time the officer feels like it, and there's essentially nothing you can do about it.
Do I think all, or even most, cops do this? No. But, it is not rare, either.
Grumpy
Well-Known Member
Is it the circle that people are having accidents at on FDR? If I recall there is no drivers test for a circle, maybe class or in the book. Is it that people don't understand how to use a circles? or forgot how it works, there are no circles down this area, one on the base at gate 3. I can't think of any others. Common sense driving too me, which there is a lack of down here.
glhs837
Power with Control
And if it's not the violation that is the reason for the stop, then it's really fishing, isnt it? I will grant my word "overreaching" was ill-chosen regarding 99% of stops. It doesnt work me overly much, since I know that the massive majority of officers are good people doing good things and so it's not often abused. So I agree that for 99% of stops it's good, but there are cases on record, not just some disgruntled citizen on youtube, but cases where DUIs and drug convictions have been tossed because the officer made up or exaggerated the initial reason for the stop. So it does happen.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...-officers-concocted-reason-traffic-stop.shtml
Guy pulls out in front or a cruiser going 8 over the limit on a rainy night with more than 300 feet to spare. Officer does have to brake, but it's gentle enough that the nose doesn't even dip. Read the story for the rest. Sadly, the dirtbad, who had dope, money and a weapon on him walked on all those charges because the cops didn't act right.
glhs837
Power with Control
No, it's where for the last three years, people have been able to turn left from both lanes from FDR southbound onto First Colony way because the part of FDR south of there was sealed off.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.2971169,-76.5199823,101m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
yep, sorry for going off tanget. I guess it's the fact that knuckle heads behind the wheel just keep getting away with being stupid.