Federal court rules dogs can be shot if they bark

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Federal court rules dogs can be shot if they bark, move when officer enters home stemming from controversial Michigan case



Three Michigan police officers, who shot two dogs for lunging and barking at them during a drug raid, were once again justified in their actions — this time by a federal appeals court.

Mark and Cheryl Brown of Battle Creek, Mich., filed suits over unreasonable seizure of their property and a violation of their constitutional rights for the deaths of their pets.

According to the Battle Creek Enquirer, officers shot and killed the Browns' pit bull terriers during an April 2013 operation, with Emergency Response Team members claiming one lunged at them and that the other barked as they executed a search warrant for drugs.
 

luvmygdaughters

Well-Known Member
Got mixed feeling on this. My dog, who looks absolutely terrifying, will bark, very deeply, if someone knocks at our door. However, if it came to biting someone, I don't see her doing it. She's not aggressive, just looks that way. Of course, I don't plan on having the cops busting in my door either.
 
Got mixed feeling on this. My dog, who looks absolutely terrifying, will bark, very deeply, if someone knocks at our door. However, if it came to biting someone, I don't see her doing it. She's not aggressive, just looks that way. Of course, I don't plan on having the cops busting in my door either.
This ruling does stir up mixed feelings, however, I agree with the ruling that the choice to take out a dog should be left to the discretion of the police on scene.
 

limblips

Well-Known Member
So it is okay to kill a dog for doing what dogs do? Aggression is one thing, barking is another. My 2 little Havanese bark when someone comes to the door but when the door opens they just want to play with whoever it is!
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Federal court rules dogs can be shot if they bark, move when officer enters home stemming from controversial Michigan case



Three Michigan police officers, who shot two dogs for lunging and barking at them during a drug raid, were once again justified in their actions — this time by a federal appeals court.

Mark and Cheryl Brown of Battle Creek, Mich., filed suits over unreasonable seizure of their property and a violation of their constitutional rights for the deaths of their pets.

According to the Battle Creek Enquirer, officers shot and killed the Browns' pit bull terriers during an April 2013 operation, with Emergency Response Team members claiming one lunged at them and that the other barked as they executed a search warrant for drugs.

“The standard we set out today is that a police officer’s use of deadly force against a dog while executing a search warrant to search a home for illegal drug activity is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment when … the dog poses an imminent threat to the officer’s safety,” wrote Judge Eric Clay in the decision that saw the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati side with the U.S. District Court in Grand Rapids' dismissal.


For one, I'm not certain this really says a dog can be shot for barking. For two, if your dog is lunging while officers are conducting a legal search, that's probably your fault for not having your dog under some kind of control. I'm not sure JUST barking, say by a dog on a leash or behind a fence, would be reasonably-shown as an "imminent threat to the officer's safety".

Whether or not the citizens, in this case, actually are guilty of the crime for which they were being investigated, the process was followed to obtain a legal search warrant, and 100 lbs of one dog was lunging at the officers. I'm not really feeling a justifiable anger at the officers, here.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Remember this . The dogs are home. They live there.

The Police, warrant or not, are invaders.

It is a bad situation when Police are anxious to stop the human occupants from destroying evidence or harming an officer, and the dogs are interested in protecting their owners, and their own space.
 
So it is okay to kill a dog for doing what dogs do? Aggression is one thing, barking is another. My 2 little Havanese bark when someone comes to the door but when the door opens they just want to play with whoever it is!
I believe it is the discretion of the officer.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Remember this . The dogs are home. They live there.

The Police, warrant or not, are invaders.

It is a bad situation when Police are anxious to stop the human occupants from destroying evidence or harming an officer, and the dogs are interested in protecting their owners, and their own space.

The dogs are dogs, the police are people. With a legal search warrant, the police are not invaders; they're legally there doing their job.
 
And that, in a lot of cases, is not a good thing.
If we collectively side with officers to use their discretion as to whether or not to shoot humans based on their immediate assessment and sense of threat why wouldn't we give them the same legal safety net to do the same for other species? You say "in a lot of cases, not a good thing" which sounds to me like you think a majority of cops entering a situation where there are dogs just pop the dogs for sport. That doesn't sound reasonable to me. Just as I don't find it reasonable to believe that a majority of cops are targeting black men across America. None of the interactions where cops are not shooting are making headlines and I believe the numbers of those cases far, far, far outnumber the cases where the Monday morning quarterbacking after a choice to shoot makes the news.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Got mixed feeling on this. My dog, who looks absolutely terrifying, will bark, very deeply, if someone knocks at our door. However, if it came to biting someone, I don't see her doing it. She's not aggressive, just looks that way. Of course, I don't plan on having the cops busting in my door either.

Your dog has teeth, and it will bite if scared enough. This is a very touchy topic indeed, in the ongoing endeavor to take a bite out of crime.
 

luvmygdaughters

Well-Known Member
Your dog has teeth, and it will bite if scared enough. This is a very touchy topic indeed, in the ongoing endeavor to take a bite out of crime.

This is true, as I said, I've never seen her aggressive with another person. The reason I got her in the first place was because she does look rather intimidating, my husband works nights, our neighborhood has seen some rather questionable characters move in and I feel more secure having her there with me. Not so much as a protector but as a deterrent. As stated earlier, she will definitely bark loudly when someone comes to the door and that's what I want her to do. Of course, we do control her when a stranger is allowed in, she has never so much as growled at anyone.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
Have the tables been turned?

If I may ...

Your Right of Defense Against Unlawful Arrest

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306. This premise was upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case: John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529. The Court stated: “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

“An arrest made with a defective warrant, or one issued without affidavit, or one that fails to allege a crime is within jurisdiction, and one who is being arrested, may resist arrest and break away. lf the arresting officer is killed by one who is so resisting, the killing will be no more than an involuntary manslaughter.” Housh v. People, 75 111. 491; reaffirmed and quoted in State v. Leach, 7 Conn. 452; State v. Gleason, 32 Kan. 245; Ballard v. State, 43 Ohio 349; State v Rousseau, 241 P. 2d 447; State v. Spaulding, 34 Minn. 3621.

“When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

“These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence.” Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

“Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

As a practical matter one should try to avoid relying on the above in an actual confrontation with law enforcement agents, who are likely not to know or care about any of it. Some recent courts have refused to follow these principles, and grand juries, controlled by prosecutors, have refused to indict officers who killed innocent people claiming the subject "resisted" or "looked like he might have a gun". Once dedicated to "protect and serve", far too many law enforcement officers have become brutal, lawless occupying military forces.

From http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
For two, if your dog is lunging while officers are conducting a legal search, that's probably your fault for not having your dog under some kind of control.


right because you are given an opportunity to corral your dog when the cops kick in the door, and come rushing in .....
yeah I know, don't want your dog shot, down commit crimes

I don't care either way, but like citizens, I think Police are way to quick on the draw to shoot rover down ...
there was a case recently Police shot a DOG lock in a bathroom, through the bathroom door ... now that is ####ed up


The dogs are dogs, the police are people. With a legal search warrant, the police are not invaders; they're legally there doing their job.

do you not understand the concept of 'territory' where it relates to Animals
 
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right because you are given an opportunity to corral your dog when the cops kick in the door, and come rushing in .....
yeah I know, don't want your dog shot, down commit crimes

I don't care either way, but like citizens, I think Police are way to quick on the draw to shoot rover down ...
there was a case recently Police shot a DOG lock in a bathroom, through the bathroom door ... now that is ####ed up
The ruling does not give a legal protection to the example you gave..

“The standard we set out today is that a police officer’s use of deadly force against a dog while executing a search warrant to search a home for illegal drug activity is reasonable under the Fourth Amendment when … the dog poses an imminent threat to the officer’s safety,” wrote Judge Eric Clay in the decision that saw the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati side with the U.S. District Court in Grand Rapids' dismissal.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
So it is okay to kill a dog for doing what dogs do? Aggression is one thing, barking is another. My 2 little Havanese bark when someone comes to the door but when the door opens they just want to play with whoever it is!

Perhaps next time the cops do a drug raid on your home, you should consider locking your dogs away.

Did you all miss the story here? Cops raid these drug dealers home; drug dealers sic their pitbulls on the cops; cops shoot the pitbulls. How did this equate to pets barking when someone comes to the door?
 
This is all a frikin' non-issue. Cops aren't going to raid the average home with law abiding people and shoot their pets. (yes, that has happened, but rarely, and was typically due to an error on the part of the dispatch) They are going to raid the homes of criminals. Those criminals specifically get aggressive animals to purposely protect themselves from the police and other criminal elements, used similarly to guns.

I'll trust the police discretion considering where, why and how a raid is being done.
 
Perhaps next time the cops do a drug raid on your home, you should consider locking your dogs away.

Did you all miss the story here? Cops raid these drug dealers home; drug dealers sic their pitbulls on the cops; cops shoot the pitbulls. How did this equate to pets barking when someone comes to the door?

Agree. Didn't see this before I posted pretty much the same thing.
 
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