Fetal stem cells save lives

[vraiblonde]

...if your life revoles around your wrinkles, that is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...79&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=FEMAIL&ct=5

 

[Larry Gude]

No comments from...

...the pro fetal cell crowd?

Something bothersome with this? I mean, they're gonna go to waste otherwise, right?

 

[mAlice]

...the pro fetal cell crowd?

Something bothersome with this? I mean, they're gonna go to waste otherwise, right?

Don't confuse cells in a petri dish with aborted babies.

A stem cell is a primitive type of cell that can be coaxed into developing into most of the 220 types of cells found in the human body (e.g. blood cells, heart cells, brain cells, etc). Some researchers regard them as offering the greatest potential for the alleviation of human suffering since the development of antibiotics. Over 100 million Americans and two billion other humans worldwide suffer from diseases that may eventually be treated more effectively with stem cells or even cured. These include heart disease, diabetes, and certain types of cancer.

Stem cells can be extracted from very young human embryos -- typically from surplus frozen embryos left over from in-vitro fertilization (IVF) procedures at fertility clinics. A couple undergoing IVF is faced with four alternatives for their 16 or so surplus embryos:

There are currently hundreds of thousands of surplus embryos in storage. One source estimated that there were 400,000 stored embryos by mid-2003. 4 However, a minority of pro-lifers and a majority of pro-life organizations object to the use of embryos in research. They feel that a few-days-old embryo is a human person. Extracting its stem cells kills the embryo -- an act that they consider to be murder. Stem cells can now be grown in the laboratory, so (in a pinch) some research can be done using existing stem cells. No further harvesting needs to be made from embryos. However, existing stem cell lines are gradually degrading and will soon be useless for research.

Stem cells can also be extracted from adult tissue, without harm to the subject. Unfortunately, they are difficult to remove and are severely limited in quantity. There has been a consensus among researchers that adult stem cells are limited in usefulness -- that they can be used to produce only a few of the 220 types of cells in the human body. However, some evidence is emerging that indicates that adult cells may be more flexible than has previously been believed.

 

[mAlice]

as their name suggests, are derived from embryos. Specifically, embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos that develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro—in an in vitro fertilization clinic—and then donated for research purposes with informed consent of the donors. They are not derived from eggs fertilized in a woman's body.

http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics3.asp

 

[Larry Gude]

Hmm...

Don't confuse cells in a petri dish with aborted babies.

As I understand it, the cells come from embryo's, human embryo's, right?

So, we've got 100 of thousands of embryo's just sitting around in cold storage.

Let's use 'em to fix wrinkles!

That's not ghoulish?

 

[terbear1225]

fix wrinkles, no. cure potentially fatal diseases, absolutely.

 

[mAlice]

As I understand it, the cells come from embryo's, human embryo's, right?

So, we've got 100 of thousands of embryo's just sitting around in cold storage.

Let's use 'em to fix wrinkles!

That's not ghoulish?

In the case of this article, yes...the cells come from aborted babies. That's what you meant to say, right?

But that's also not in this country. Maybe if we lead the way in stem cell research that doesn't involve aborted babies, we'll set the example. Yeah, in a perfect world.

My point is that the research is continually being confused with the act of killing babies, and it's not that cut and dry.

As for ghoulish, no. I don't see it as any more ghoulish than growing a human ear on a rats ass.

 

[SamSpade]

So, we've got 100 of thousands of embryo's just sitting around in cold storage.

Don't forget, an unlimited capacity to make more!

 

[Larry Gude]

Why are you hung up on abortion?

In the case of this article, yes...the cells come from aborted babies. That's what you meant to say, right?

But that's also not in this country. Maybe if we lead the way in stem cell research that doesn't involve aborted babies, we'll set the example. Yeah, in a perfect world.

My point is that the research is continually being confused with the act of killing babies, and it's not that cut and dry.

As for ghoulish, no. I don't see it as any more ghoulish than growing an ear on a rats ass.

I guess I'm not making myself clear? I haven't said a word about abortion.

There's frozen embryo's right? A sperm an egg, it's started. It's now an embryo. It's in a freezer. Some people use it to have a baby when they can't do it the old fashioned way. Some people are using it to clear up skin wrinkles.

Isn't growing an ear on a rats azz ghoulish?

 

[Larry Gude]

You can't have one...

fix wrinkles, no. cure potentially fatal diseases, absolutely.

...without the other. If in the process of figuring out how to cure AID's a skin cream is also discovered, are we gonna pretend it wasn't discovered?

 

[Kerad]

...the pro fetal cell crowd?

Something bothersome with this? I mean, they're gonna go to waste otherwise, right?

:shrug:

Not sure what sort of comments you're expecting? It's obvious from the article that it's illegal (in the U.K.) to use stem cells for that particular pupose.

"But scientists agree that further research is required to substantiate the claim that injecting stem cells can diminish wrinkles or reverse the signs of ageing.

In Britain, stem-cell research is governed by strict ethical considerations - it is limited to registered institutions using cells from embryos up to 14 days old or aborted foetuses donated to science.

But it has proved difficult to police clinics abroad and it is here that many people go for a range of stem-cell treatments"

Seems that dispite lack of proof that the cells have any effect on wrinkles, there are people out there willing to shell out thousands of dollars (pounds, rubles, etc.). We all know if there are idiots with money....someone will find a way to take it from them.

Let's not gloss over the other information in the article...

"Stem-cell therapy has been big business for beauty doctors since medics discovered the strong healing and rejuvenating potential of stem cells for medical conditions such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's."

"They are immature but powerful cells that, once extracted, can be stimulated in a laboratory to develop into any type of body cell or organ, including bone, muscle and body tissue.

When injected, these powerful cells target the organs that are not functioning at their optimum and encourage them to produce new tissue."

....even though we already were aware of it.

 

[Kerad]

Isn't growing an ear on a rats azz ghoulish?

It would be if the only reason for doing so is to have a rat walking around with an ear on it's back. Not so much if you're a burn victim without your ears and that's the way for you to get 'em back.

 

[Bruzilla]

Once again the "they're only going to go to waste" crowd is heard from. And once again I'll ask "what happens when they are gone?" and "what happens when someone wants specific characteristics of their stem cells?" While I am pro-abortion in order to keep unfit/unwanting parents from having kids, I am rather distressed to hear about all these aborted fetuses coming out of Russia and elsewhere. Is there any doubt that many of these fetuses are coming from desperate women who are told "hey... you want to make some extra rubles? Get pregnant, abort the fetus at a particular point, and we'll give you cash!"?

And now we have an American doctor doing what would be illegal in the US out in the Dominican Republic. I don't see how anyone can believe that once billions of federal dollars are dropped into a newly legalized embryonic stem cell business that US physicians and reproductive science clinics are all going to maintain a high degree of moral objectivity over increased profits. Once there's a substantial profit to be made from embryos there won't be 400,000 leftovers from fertility treatments... there will be millions of "leftovers" as clinics offer discounts/freebies to couples willing to provide extra embryos.

I guess only in America will people get up in arms about puppy mills, but have no problem with the potential for embryo or fetus mills.

 

[terbear1225]

there's a big differnece between accidentally discovering some sort of skin cream while trying to cure aids and using stem cells for the sole purpose of diminishing wrinkles. yeah, i think anyone who would go to such extremes to get rid of their wrinkles is warped, but that doesn't mean there's not significant good that could come out of legitimate stem cell research.

 

[mAlice]

I guess I'm not making myself clear? I haven't said a word about abortion.

There's frozen embryo's right? A sperm an egg, it's started. It's now an embryo. It's in a freezer. Some people use it to have a baby when they can't do it the old fashioned way. Some people are using it to clear up skin wrinkles.

Isn't growing an ear on a rats azz ghoulish?

We're discussing the article, no? You're always confusing when you post. I prefer face to face when having a conversation with you.

I don't see a problem with using a "cure", for lack of a better word, for more than what the cure was created for if it will improve someone's life.

No, I don't really think it's ghoulish to grow a human ear on a rats ass, and somebody might need an ear... and that just bleeds into another old argument. Why is it okay to have cosmetic surgery to improve one's appearance if one had been mangled, but not okay to nip and tuck. Not my argument, just an example.

 

[mAlice]

Once again the "they're only going to go to waste" crowd is heard from. And once again I'll ask "what happens when they are gone?" and "what happens when someone wants specific characteristics of their stem cells?" While I am pro-abortion in order to keep unfit/unwanting parents from having kids, I am rather distressed to hear about all these aborted fetuses coming out of Russia and elsewhere. Is there any doubt that many of these fetuses are coming from desperate women who are told "hey... you want to make some extra rubles? Get pregnant, abort the fetus at a particular point, and we'll give you cash!"?

And now we have an American doctor doing what would be illegal in the US out in the Dominican Republic. I don't see how anyone can believe that once billions of federal dollars are dropped into a newly legalized embryonic stem cell business that US physicians and reproductive science clinics are all going to maintain a high degree of moral objectivity over increased profits. Once there's a substantial profit to be made from embryos there won't be 400,000 leftovers from fertility treatments... there will be millions of "leftovers" as clinics offer discounts/freebies to couples willing to provide extra embryos.

I guess only in America will people get up in arms about puppy mills, but have no problem with the potential for embryo or fetus mills.

We can't rule the world.

 

[terbear1225]

what about stem cells from the umbilibcal cords full term live births? can't these be used for research? seems like this would be a way to make both sides happy.

 

[BuddyLee]

We're discussing the article, no? You're always confusing when you post. I prefer face to face when having a conversation with you.

 

[SamSpade]

Suppose it could only be harvested from actual babies - does it then become a miracle to get it, to - you know, save lives? What if it came from adults - and, you know, you'd have to go round up some old folks or some homeless people, kill 'em off and swipe their precious bodily fluids?

Kinda reminds me of Oliver Goldsmith's A Moderate Proposal (that's the one where he proposes that the Irish eat their children to solve the two problems of overpopulation and starvation).

I guess at heart, I don't trust the general character of the human race not to be barbaric in the face of such things - I think there are plenty of people who would be willing to do whatever it takes. I'm reminded of a show I once saw where people were offered immortality but they had to kill someone to get it. People would do it.

Ok, ok, it's all a little far-fetched. Maybe. I just think this kind of thing just reinforces my thinking that, whenever someone wants to win a point on a subject, two tried and true points get raised. One is - trot out how the children will be affected (hey, it's working for Hezbollah now). The other is, hey it will save lives! But really - it's just going to make you look better.

Now if we could only use those embryos to make a better gasoline!

 

[Chain729]

As I understand it, the cells come from embryo's, human embryo's, right?

So, we've got 100 of thousands of embryo's just sitting around in cold storage.

Let's use 'em to fix wrinkles!

That's not ghoulish?

I'd rather use them to fix wrinkles than through them in the dumpster. What do you suggest we do with them? Now? In the future? Do you suggest we tell IVF clinics to stop making more than they'll use?

I'm seriously curious; why the outrage over this? We either use the already created embryos for something good, or we throw them in the dumpster. I mean I could understand if they were making new biological weapon out of them, but all I've heard so far, is that they're using them for profitable and helpful medical research (left scams out on purpose).